Victorians! discussion

An eventful instalment this week as we witness new beginnings, strained relationships, secrets, a devastating loss and also new friendships and perhaps a possible romance?

As Mr Gibson and his new bride return from their travels, Molly must face the reality of her new life with her new Mamma as she is compelled by Mr Gibson to call Mrs Gibson. On the very first evening, in a house which now feels strange with everything ‘new’ about it, Molly ends up playing ‘Mamma’ to Mrs Gibson, even having to read to her till she falls asleep. While Mrs Gibson isn’t typically stepmotherly (anything but, in fact) her relationship with Molly is a difficult one, on the one side she has ensured that Molly is better dressed, is taking her to pay calls and such but on the other not only must she have her way, she isn’t much interested in what Molly might want, nor does she seem to care. But it seems her relationship with her own daughter Cynthia is far more complicated and Molly finds an unexpected friend and ally in her.

But not before Mrs Gibson has begun to stir up all sorts of troubles from depriving the house of all its old servants including poor Betty, placing her own comfort over that of even Mr Gibson and making changes that none of the recipients want. Perhaps one of her worst decisions is preventing Molly from going to see poor Mrs Hamley when she is sent for, and keeping her waiting an entire day. Her airs and graces and newly acquired social position are her prime concern and even if not outrightly cruel, her self-centeredness and occupation with what people might or should think of her makes her indirectly so, as others desires or wishes or even deeper sentiments stand sacrificed.

I can’t say that I was too sorry for Mr Gibson when regret at his hasty decision has certainly begun to set in, but it is poor Molly who is paying the price even though she’s being as good about it as possible. One is even more sorry for Molly as she doesn’t get the deserved sympathy from her father either.

On the positive side for her though, when Cynthia eventually arrives, beautiful and charming, she isn’t the typical stepsister. Rather, with an even more difficult relationship with Mrs Gibson who seems to have treated her even worse than she does Molly, and having taken to Molly almost instantly, she has become something of a friend and some comfort to her. And her value of Mr Gibson’s good opinion also seems to reflect well on her

But as we see from the slimy Mr Preston’s visit, there is something perhaps from the past that makes him take an (unwelcome) interest in Cynthia and that causes both her and Mrs Gibson some trepidation.

Meanwhile at the Hamley house too things are going badly. Squire and Mrs Hamley seem to have misjudged their sons for while Roger has secured the position of Senior Wrangler in the Tripos, the brilliant Osborne has not only failed but also mounted up so many debts that there is now strain on the poor Squire and his plans for his estate which can’t be resolved very easily. The shock has hurt both him and Mrs Hamley, the latter far more deeply such that she takes to her bed suffering her last illness. At this time, Molly once again provides much comfort but becomes privy to a secret which will likely hurt the Squire even more—Osborne’s secret marriage.

The socially ambitious Mrs Gibson, blissfully unaware of all this, is trying her hardest to make a match between Osborne and Cynthia. And while Osborne gets on quite well with her, it seems Roger too is ‘captured’ by her charm, and he is free to be so as well. His friendship with and concern for Molly continue but Cynthia has certainly distracted his attention.

What developments await our characters next, I wonder.

New Beginnings
The Gibsons begin their new life with Mrs Gibson in charge of the home. But by and large, the changes for them are unwelcome ones.
However, Cynthia herself proves a pleasant surprise, both befriending and taking Molly’s side.

Molly
Molly is indeed having a troublesome time with so much change that can’t but upset her, having to mother her new Mamma, let go of old family faithfuls, lose her friend Mrs Hamley and become privy to a secret which might provide tricky later. She is handlung everything with a great deal of sense and calmness showing just how mature she is. Mr Gibson realizes he needn’t have married at all, but he doesn’t realise that Molly is almost filling the role he imagined Mrs Gibson would.

Family Relationships
Somewhat strained across the board, whether it is Mrs Gibson and Molly, Mrs Gibson and Cynthia, Mr Gibson and Molly (to a lesser degree), Mr and Mrs Hamley and Osborne—everyone is having some form or the other of trouble and some of these might have implications.

secrets
One secret revealed this week was Osborne Hamley’s secret marriage, but there seems something too as regards Mr Preston and Cynthia/Mrs Gibson. Both likely to spell trouble later.

social dynamics
Social dynamics and equations are very much in the background all through this book, in this segment, most evident in Mrs Gibsons calls and manoeuverings. The little fun comes from her inability to believe that Lady Harriet could possibly have made a friend of Molly!

"The Gibsons begin their new life with Mrs Gibson in charge of the home. But by and large, the changes for them are unwelcome ones.
However, Cynthia herself proves a pleasant surprise, both befriending and taking Molly’s side."

Mrs. Gibson and Cynthia irk me. From what I know of Mrs. Gaskell she seems the complete opposite of these two characters. I wonder who, in real life, she based these characters on?

Characters like Mrs Gibson/Kirkpatrick/Clare tend to get their comeuppance in the next generation. Daughter Cynthia's treatment of her mother almost makes me sympathize with Mrs G.

Unlike Francis, I am still open about Cynthia, though she does apparently have an undisclosed past involving Mr Preston and perhaps others.

Well, the doctor’s solution to the problem of his daughter’s lover has almost turned into a nightmare for them both. The hammer he brought in to the crack the nut that was the fiery headed and fiery hearted student doctor has been much more than a sledgehammer, more like a wrecking ball smashing the relative serenity of their lives.

The irony that there was no nut to crack after the wedding tour, due to the student’s departure, just made the tornado that was the new Mrs. Gibson even more severe.

The cruellest and heartless act by Hyacinth was to remove all Molly’s bedroom furniture, that ‘comfort blanket’ she cherished in memory of her mother. Almost every aspect of their treasured home lives has been destroyed by Hyacinth’s selfish disregard for anybody but herself. She may have been a desperate woman in dire straits but Molly and her father didn’t deserve to have such an albatross as her hanging round their necks. The doctor has made a huge mistake and only time will tell if he can redress the balance in his household that has been torn asunder.

Cynthia Kirkpatrick, however, is an intriguing character. One of the more interesting and complex in Victorian literature. The author describes her like this…

’ Cynthia might well say she did not consider herself bound to be truthful; she literally said what came uppermost, without caring very much whether it was accurate or not. But there was no ill-nature, and, in a general way, no attempt at procuring any advantage for herself in all her deviations; and there was often such a latent sense of fun in them that Molly could not help being amused with them in fact, though she condemned them in theory.’

With such traits she would be considered good material for a modern heroine by authors today. Also…..

’ Cynthia was very beautiful, and was so well aware of this fact that she had forgotten to care about it; no one with such loveliness ever appeared so little conscious of it.’

It is not just a lack of vanity, being beautiful almost bores her and certainly can become an irritable distraction for her when she is being pursued by ardent admirers.

Considering the author’s disclosure that Cynthia was an inveterate liar, this admission to Molly was refreshingly honest, probably a little shocking to a Victorian reader, but would probably encourage a modern reader to want to know more about her.

’ But it's no use talking; I am not good, and I never shall be now. Perhaps I might be a heroine still, but I shall never be a good woman, I know." "Do you think it easier to be a heroine?" "Yes, as far as one knows of heroines from history. I'm capable of a great jerk, an effort, and then a relaxation—but steady, every-day goodness is beyond me. I must be a moral kangaroo!"

She reminds me a little of Gwendolen Harleth from George Eliot’s Daniel Deronda although that book was written ten years later.

She is certainly an excellent foil to Molly whose own quiet complexities have been revealed in this section as she begins to take on the trials and tribulations of life.

Francis wrote: ""The Gibsons begin their new life with Mrs Gibson in charge of the home. But by and large, the changes for them are unwelcome ones.
However, Cynthia herself proves a pleasant surprise, both befrien..."

Like Jim, I'm sympathetic towards Cynthia so far as she seems at least to recognise both Molly and Mr Gibson's goodness and does seem to genuinely value their good opinion. Mrs Kirkpatrick/Gibson/Clare, though I agree, there's little that one can like about her.

Jim wrote: "Characters like Mrs Gibson/Kirkpatrick/Clare tend to get their comeuppance in the next generation. Daughter Cynthia's treatment of her mother almost makes me sympathize with Mrs G.

Unlike Francis,..."

Me too Jim. I think with the kind of upbringing Cynthia is likely to have had with Mrs Gibson/Kirkpatrick/Clare as her mother, she does deserve sympathy.

Trev wrote: "Well, the doctor’s solution to the problem of his daughter’s lover has almost turned into a nightmare for them both. The hammer he brought in to the crack the nut that was the fiery headed and fier..."

I like that Gwendolen Harleth comparison very much Trev and I think it makes sense--she is similarly complex and a character that seems to have so many shades to her unlike Mrs Kirkpatrick/Gibson herself.

I will confess though I felt extremely sorry for Molly (and now she no longer has Mrs Hamley either to escape to for comfort should things get too hard to handle), but not much for Mr Gibson himself since as I saw it, he brought it upon himself even if his decision was taken in some haste. One hopes he learns not to act quite so hastily in future.

Re Mrs Gibson herself, her selfishness seems her defining characteristic--in a sense this makes her very different from stereotypical stepmothers since she treats her own daughter as badly or worse than Molly, little caring for her either which I'm sure was also her attitude to Mr Kirkpatrick

Lady Clementina wrote: " I like that Gwendolen Harleth comparison very much Trev and I think it makes sense--she is similarly complex and a character that seems to have so many shades to her unlike Mrs Kirkpatrick/Gibson herself..."

If anyone, like me, has read much of Elizabeth Gaskell’s work and is also an admirer of George Eliot’s novels, this short essay about the two authors’ almost tentative literary relationship, including some references to their similarities and differences, should prove very interesting.

https://docslib.org/doc/11554341/geor...

Trev wrote: "If anyone, like me, has read much of Elizabeth Gaskell’s work and is also an admirer of George Eliot’s novels, this short essay about the two authors’ almost tentative literary relationship, including some references to their similarities and differences, should prove very interesting...."

Thank you, Trev, for the to this interesting article. I had never heard that Gaskell and Eliot corresponded. I've Jenny Uglow's biography of Gaskell on my soon to be read shelf for a few years. Reading her article makes me determined to actually get to it.

Mrs, Gibson is a selfish social climber who is going to continue to make the lives of Molly and Dr. Gibson miserable unless something drastic happens very soon. My heart goes out to Molly in her struggles and during her time of grief. Mrs. Gibson’s cruelty in keeping her from Mrs. Hamley unnecessarily was breathtaking. Dr. Gibson’s mistake in marrying without really knowing his intended was strange since he had remained unmarried for so many years, but he’s certainly paying for it now, as is Molly.

I like Cynthia and hope she continues to be a friend to Molly. She obviously has no love for her own mother but seems to respect Dr. Gibson. I only hope she doesn’t try to make a match with Osborne (for obvious reasons) or with Roger (because he needs to be with Molly).

I suspect the secret involving Mr. Preston, along with Osborne’s secret marriage, may eventually bring everything to a head.

Trev wrote: "Lady Clementina wrote: " I like that Gwendolen Harleth comparison very much Trev and I think it makes sense--she is similarly complex and a character that seems to have so many shades to her unlike..."

Thanks for this Trev :) I had no idea of their correspondence either!

Nancy wrote: "Mrs, Gibson is a selfish social climber who is going to continue to make the lives of Molly and Dr. Gibson miserable unless something drastic happens very soon. My heart goes out to Molly in her st..."

I'm glad he's beginning to realise he might have made a mistake but it's too late to do much good for Molly unless he can intervene in some way.

Like you, I liked Cynthia's genuine friendship towards Molly and respect for Mr Gibson too. Her past though and whatever secret she shares with Mr Preston is likely to bring trouble though.

Nancy wrote: "Mrs, Gibson is a selfish social climber who is going to continue to make the lives of Molly and Dr. Gibson miserable unless something drastic happens very soon. My heart goes out to Molly in her st..."

... Actually, Mrs. Gibson is not that much of a "social climber" as she would wish to be: from a governess via a vicar's widow and a school mistress to the doctor's wife - she has not moved outside the stratum she must have been born into (i.e. a penniless, landless gentleman's daughter - I don't think her ancestry is mentioned in the book) . Material security determines her choices. The social position that would put her above the townsfolk is in her mind only - but she defends it all the more furiously for all that.

As a character, she is Gaskell's ideal focal point for directing her social commentary in all directions. The aristocrats, for example, never see beyond Clare's sycophancy to detect the very thin ice of the pseudo-education on which she slithers along. Her attempts to put herself, and the Gibson family, above e.g. the Misses Brownings - who, as a vicar's daughters, are very much her social equals - fail miserably. In her rigorous if mis-placed class-consciousness she is a nice contrast to Gibson's more liberal approach: for the doctor, all patients are equal, and his respect for other men is based on their intellectual capacities and scientific merit. Clare somehow represents the "old", and Gibson the "new order" - a quaint couple.