The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

Orbital by Samantha Harvey (Jonathan Cape)

I liked this book when I read it in February but honestly? I remember almost nothing about it now. Contrast that with Prophet Song which I'm still thinking about. FWIW.

I agree with Rose. It was interesting at the time of reading but now I find it dreamy. A lot of introspection and reflection on the fate of the world. Not much plot which was a shame considering there was an interesting phenomenon they were following on the space shuttle. I would have liked to had that fleshed out a bit more.

I felt this lacked atmosphere

This one is my next read. I’ve heard it just goes round and round

Not only are there few pages but there is a lot of space on them.

I came around on this one.

I thought you all were just being punny, but now I'm not so sure :-)

I very much enjoyed Orbital, surprisingly so. But like Rose it has faded with me; that continuing 'literary resonance' months after finishing a book, a kind of flashback 'feel' for the work that stays with me and keeps returning is often a test as to how significant a work remains for me.

All puns aside, I read an arc of Orbital last fall. At the time, I remember thinking it was so much better than the over-long In Ascension on last year's Booker list.

But now, almost a year later, I can recall In Ascension better than Orbital, so I can relate to what Rose and John are saying about it fading.

I agree. I felt it fitted well on the Orwell Prize as it was an intelligent choice by the judges there to treat as political fiction. I am less sure here.

I was nonplussed by Orbital. I thought there was some lovely writing but overall it simply did not hold together for me. And it certainly has not lingered in my mind.

Beautiful writing, rather empty message, was what I thought. I did enjoy immersing myself in the setting, and I think it gets major points for nerve and creativity. But is it a great novel?

Just realized I read Harvey's memoir, The Shapeless Unease: A Year of Not Sleeping about a month ago, didn't immediately register that it was the same person. Wasn't a huge fan of that; let's see if my knowledge of her anxiety and insomnia troubles adds anything to my reading of this novel!

This book is also on the longlist for the Ursula Le Guinn Prize and why I have it in hand. I am just over the 60% mark and enjoying it. I like the reflection and do not find the message empty. Whether it will still resonate as time goes by, will take time to go by.

It’s also very different to her previous novel The Western Wind - a medieval whodunnit slightly marred for me by some odd anachronisms.

She is a very versatile author.

As an aside - in a Booker link

The 16th century chant Western Wind (originally Westron Wynde) features in Enlightenment - it’s also key both to the narrator and the title of Garth Greenwell’s moving Small Rain (which was heavily Booker tipped).

Just finished this book. Unfortunately I wanted to like it a lot more than I did. I've always been fascinated by anything to do with astronauts or the Overview Effect described by astronauts who have seen the Earth from space.

I found it pretty, but also a little shallow and boring. I am more forgiving at the lack of plot because I think that was on purpose. To me the major flaw is that the characters never felt like real, breathing people. It's hard to instill a sense of connection and oneness with flat characters like this.

My full review is here: href="https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I've lurked in this community for a couple years and have always been impressed by the excellent discussion. Looking forward to reading through (at least) the full shortlist with you all.

Thank for posting - great to have you here and a great review.

Mat wrote: "Just finished this book. Unfortunately I wanted to like it a lot more than I did. I've always been fascinated by anything to do with astronauts or the Overview Effect described by astronauts who ha..."
Welcome to the group Mat

Lee wrote: "Just realized I read Harvey's memoir, The Shapeless Unease: A Year of Not Sleeping about a month ago, didn't immediately register that it was the same person. Wasn't a huge fan of that; let's see if my knowledge of her anxiety and insomnia troubles adds anything to my reading of this novel."

It did not, though this book might have cured my own insomnia.

I'm at the 85% mark and still enjoying it. I do not find myself compelled to read it. I am just doing small chunks, often when in bed and then I find the book beside me when I wake in the morning. But it does have me thinking and even dreaming. I like the characters. They seem like decent folk. I cannot imagine spending that much time that close up with anyone, let alone 5 others.

Mat wrote: "Just finished this book. Unfortunately I wanted to like it a lot more than I did. I've always been fascinated by anything to do with astronauts or the Overview Effect described by astronauts who ha..."

I think a writer can show boredom among the astronauts without boring the reader. Not my favorite book on the list, but one I think might make the shortlist.

I enjoyed your review. Very nice! Thank you for sharing it. I'm not as interested in space or astronauts as I think you are, but I generally like any well written book. I'm even liking dystopian literature, a genre I used to despise.

I never listen to audiobooks myself. I might fall asleep while walking the dogs! LOL

Goldsmith is next list for this book.

That’s a great call - I really liked the way they went for it in the Orwell as I think it was an expensive way by the judges of thinking of politics and picking up cleverly on one of the strongest themes of the book.

I had not considered as Goldsmith.

I could more have seen Headshot making it more if it had been eligible (it’s not due to nationality).

Fascinating though.

You should post it to Goldsmith thread too so we remember it was part of the discussion - as a group (well 2/3rd Paul, 1/3 the rest of us) we normally get most of that list right as part of a very limited group of books being speculated about.

Now finished Orbital. It did not disappoint. I can see it on the Goldsmith list.

Review for Orbital - I liked it well enough, though something tells me it won't get shortlisted. I understand why people say this and Headshot are similar in voice and tone, and I think they occupy a similar archetype that makes me (and others in this group) doubt that BOTH will make the SL. If that's the case, I can see Headshot making it over this one.

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A tiny little package of a book that once you know the synopsis of, lays bare all its tricks. Nonetheless, even though you know what the tricks will be and how they will be expressed through prose, you are charmed by them anyway.

There’s something rhythmic about this book that I loved, something lulling and comforting that if I were to put my finger on it, some readers would call tiring in their eyes. Tiring or repetitive. I quite liked that the prose almost had a certain routine (analogous to the routines the astronauts must adhere to): where are we passing on Earth, and how can its forms, shapes, and motion be expressed in simple ways to the reader, from a birds-eye perspective. Next, let’s check in on the astronauts themselves, juxtaposing their ISS projects with something familiar from home, and point out how utterly alien they are by definition now. And finally, let’s go outside the ISS craft, to either Earth below, or to another craft, the Moon Landing team.

This routine comforts the reader through all of this book’s compulsively readable 200 pages. But unfortunately, it never quite bridges the gap between Earth and the space station. It acknowledges the gap, sure, and sufficiently colors in either side of the gap, but this one does not dare to venture to the vacuum of space and visit that sense of dread underscoring all these astronaut’s POVs. Each orbit I felt closer and closer to each of these astronauts, but never close enough to the point that I feel like any of them would be comfortable sharing that innate sense of dread with myself or each other, and that stoic distance is what holds this book back from a higher rating.

Great comments. I did also feel a detachment from this book - for such a short book it took me a long time to read. I am going to be fascinating to see how it stacks up on a re read.

Finally finished. GY - like you, I was surprise at the length of time it took to read compared to the length of the book. Majestic writing in places

I have been approaching the longlist tentatively, completing other reading obligations first and have only read a few chapters in a couple of books since the longlist announcement, so I am trying to psych my self into reading the rest of the list by adding more comments on those I read. I expect Orbital to shortlist at present. It is a novel that is hard to criticize and Harvey seems to have done most everything well, My only criticism is in relation to what I pictured when I read the novel. With some books, I am fully engaged with images from what the author is describing in the book to the point where the novel is like a running film of the events happening. Sometimes my thoughts are reflecting other images and I haven't quite learned how to incorporate this with my judgements. For example, some books are tedious and I might while reading, have the image of a wall clock from my earlier school days showing just two black hands on a white face, one never seeming to move while the other would make a sudden jerk as the one minute moved to the next. In another example, a more young adult type read might elicit images of a classroom of school kids, appropriate for the age level of the book, reacting to the novel . In the case of Orbital the image locked in my memory is of an imagined author busy at a dual screen computer where on one screen she is typing her novel while on the other screen she is staring intently at Google Earth. As fine as Orbital is, I wish I was left with a better defining picture in my memory of the book.

I have a hard time with Orbital, feeling an unquenchable need to go to sleep after ten pages. the prose is beautiful, but I agree with others who are unsure what exactly it says. Maybe the issue lies in me nit enjoying meditation.

on the other side, listening to the book might be advisable, since the prose is rhythmic and melodic. I might try.

I read the audiobook as I read the physical and very much enjoyed the experience.

Much better than I expected at first! I think Orbital suffers a bit from trying to be too meaningful and gets a bit verbose (?) at times, but once we focus more on the astronauts (and cosmonauts!) I was hooked. The beginning and end were the weakest, I thought, because the prose felt very weighed down by the fact that it was all a spiritual epiphany, but in the moments when Harvey balances character, prose and meaning, the novel really shines.

I read this quite a while ago and while I enjoyed it, I was a bit surprised to see it on the Booker list. The writing did seem to carry me on easily at a good clip, but I can't say I loved it.

We had a strong inkling that Justine Jordan felt the book was one of her very favourites of 2023 so always suspected it might make the list.

I think it fits the Orwell Prize better.

All is relative and I came to Orbital after Strange, Eventful History, which was a bit of a trudge, and Wandering Stars, which I found nearly unreadable. After those two books, Orbital really feels like a breath of fresh air, very descriptive but quite tightly written. I am only halfway through but am quite enjoying this jewel-like novel. It is appealing in the same way that Small Things Like These was. I wouldn't mind seeing this in the shortlist

Stephen wrote: "...an imagined author busy at a dual screen computer where on one screen she is typing her novel while on the other screen she is staring intently at Google Earth"

Yes this was my takeaway from this one as well. Afraid I found it a bit of a trudge. There was a lot of listing countries over and over.

Inclined to agree with others that those better versed in meditation would likely find this one a more enjoyable read.

Garrett wrote: "Review for Orbital - I liked it well enough, though something tells me it won't get shortlisted. I understand why people say this and Headshot are similar in voice and tone, and I think they occupy..."

She's using some of the structures of poetry, so I can see why you found it rhythmic. I loved it and hope it makes the shortlist, but I, too, have doubts it will. I don't think Headshot will, either, but my guesses seem to be wrong more often than right.

Aditi wrote: "All is relative and I came to Orbital after Strange, Eventful History, which was a bit of a trudge, and Wandering Stars, which I found nearly unreadable. After those two books, Orbital really feels..."

I feel the same about it. I loved it.

Laura, I am a daily meditator.

I also loved this one. Five stars for me.

I thought the writing was vivid, the characters interesting and the messages poignant. I have seen others criticize it for lack of plot, but whereas this bothered me greatly when reading Headshots, this did not detract from my enjoyment of Orbital one iota.

Another author for who I am interested in reading other books she has written.

As an aside, I found a funny post on the Booker Prize Book Club on facebook which I will share here (hopefully the poster will not mind).
"I'm becoming a bit obsessed with "Orbital." Yesterday, I read it at my desk with a live feed from the International Space Station playing on the computer screen above the book. Today, it said "North Pacific" and I saw ice in the waters, so hung a world map over the desk to help visualize where the ISS was at, and I ordered a small poster of "Las Meninas" after Pietro says it's about the dog.....".

It’s actually all about the dog was my favourite line from the book.

Beautifully written tedium.

BookerMT2 wrote: "Beautifully written tedium."

It is tedious at times, but beautifully written. I think it could make the shortlist.

I’m of two minds on this book. Part of me experiences the tedium and lack of plot and distance from the characters, and I don’t love those aspects. But there are also a lot of miraculous passages here.

For example: starting on page 107 in my copy, there is a beautiful passage about the “seamless earth” without visible borders. No countries, no war. The passage then shifts into an exploration of the desire to protect this pristine, borderless planet (i.e. The Overview Effect). Then, the passage moves on to talk about the news and how the astronauts try to avoid listening to all the terrible things happening on the planet. But then, “one day something shifts” (on p. 109 now), and the politics take on a more urgent, impactful role and become “so visible from their vantage point that they don’t know how they could’ve missed it at first” (p. 111). The passage ends with a mention of “their rocket whose boosters at lift-off burn the fuel of a million cars.” This kind of writing—that balances and shifts between opposite poles so seamlessly, and that takes its readers on that same journey—is worth praising, in my opinion.

The balancing of the nuances and exploring all the different angles (literally and figuratively) that we look at the earth is what this book is doing. That is the plot, I think.

I think the main point is this: “Our lives here [on Earth] are inexpressibly trivial and momentous at once… both repetitive and unprecedented. We matter greatly and not at all.” (P.184) It is this contradiction that is the work of this book, and I loved it.

On the other hand, this book also put me to sleep on several occasions…

Those passages were why I think it was a great Orwell Prize choice.

I thought this was very, very good, but I'm starting to ponder why I didn't think it was absolutely brilliant. It might just have been too short for me. The character work was superb, but I think she could have mined further depths.

Laura wrote: "I thought this was very, very good, but I'm starting to ponder why I didn't think it was absolutely brilliant. It might just have been too short for me. The character work was superb, but I think s..."

I agree with you, Laura. Lovely writing, but not enough real depth. Still, I enjoyed reading it, but I don't consider it Booker winner-worthy. Held is the book I want to win even though I felt no emotional connection with the characters. (I don't think it will win, so I'm rooting for Playground.)

Bella (Kiki) wrote: "Laura wrote: "I thought this was very, very good, but I'm starting to ponder why I didn't think it was absolutely brilliant. It might just have been too short for me. The character work was superb,..."

I've not read enough of the longlist yet to really judge, but I suspect I'd be happy to see it on the shortlist but it won't be my preferred winner. I've already read one book I liked more (Stone Yard Devotional).

I liked Stone Yard Devotional more than Orbital, too, but I'm not sure the Booker judges will.

Bella (Kiki) wrote: "I liked Stone Yard Devotional more than Orbital, too, but I'm not sure the Booker judges will."

Agreed.

Two videos in one day!

https://youtu.be/GF0OFUQ7ucI?si=KVkSy...