The Mookse and the Gripes discussion

The Safekeep by Yael van der Wouden (Viking)

Anyone else have the same problem as me with this book, i.e. figuring out the plot after 10 pages?

Yes!

Ruben wrote: "Anyone else have the same problem as me with this book, i.e. figuring out the plot after 10 pages?"

I almost DNF'ed in the first 10 pages and then again at the halfway point, but things did turn around for me in the second half.

I am interested to see if this has any similarity to Daughters of the House by Michèle Roberts. Reminded of the Roberts novel while listening to BookTube descriptions of The Safekeep .

Michèle Roberts has a new book coming out soon - French Cooking for One - at least I think soon as I have paid a pre publication advance for it.

OK not that relevant to the Booker but more interesting!

I am not quite through with this, but find myself a bit bored by the lovestory and sex. The book hits many very very used up tropes - from the Initial Anger to the hotel to the nightmares - and I keep waiting on the plot. I've had strong suspicions since chapter one, and would like to be surprised on that count. As of now, I am very unsure why it was nominated. it's fine, but I am not quite seeing what makes it special.

In the end, this was a very expected read. I did like some of the themes as well as the writing, but the execution is lacking for me. I don't think the personalisation of the conflict with the two women was the smartest choice - and I would have liked an ending that veered more into the historic/political aspects of the narative than towards the romance.

My favourite so far. I do agree that the narrative trajectory was somewhat predictable but I don't think that necessarily takes merit away from it. I still thought it was wonderfully written and I adored the love story at the centre of the novel and thought there were some wonderful explorations of queer identities.

Maybe this is just due to my own bias, but I do think that the romance was the heart of this story and it made perfect sense that the narrative centred it more than the historiographical background towards the end. I thought the novel did a good job balancing both in a particularly lengthy chapter towards the end.

This is it seems a book that is going to be a top favourite for a number of readers - I am seeing that a lot in Instagram. You have to assume that includes some judges so I would not be surprised to see this shortlisted.

Paul wrote: "Michèle Roberts has a new book coming out soon - French Cooking for One - at least I think soon as I have paid a pre publication advance for it.

OK not that relevant to the Booker but more intere..."
Thank you, Paul! :)

I liked this one. I agree that it was predictable, but that's ok. The last part felt for the most part like an abrupt shift in style and tone to me. Even though I had expected the "reveal" about the house, the shift in tone was a bit jarring, and felt almost like a different book. I can't say that I loved this one, but I am glad to have read it and it has lingered for me a bit since I finished it.

I had to put this one down. Too many sloppy, lazy love story tropes for me.

I want to put it down, but I hate not finishing a book, especially one that has been nominated for the Booker. Sloppy, is a good word for it!

I was more positive but I am intrigued what this will be like on a later re-read as the judges will do. Some books with a twist are better second time through but some are much worse.

I really admire your dedication to a second round! I do think some of the books merit a second look and my opinion might change if i gave them one, but find it hard enough to find the time to finish the longlist once.

I am with Lesley and Anna on this one. My review:

The Safekeep is the kind of book your Aunt Dolores will love. It is easy, it is breezy, it has mass appeal. I can see it being adapted for the big screen. Starring Keira Knightley and Rosamund Pike.

While the premise of the novel is intriguing – two women navigating desire, obsession and displacement in post-WWII Netherlands – too much hinges on a plot twist to save the day.

I wish an author like Sophie Mackintosh or Sarah Bernstein had tackled this story. Yael van der Wouden creates a vibe that is similar to the aforementioned authors – atmospheric, sensual, mysterious – but in van der Wouden’s hands the story becomes a tad too neat, too obvious, too “constructed”. A feat of engineering, rather than a work of poetry.

By the time the novel ends, every theme, every scene, is tied up neatly in a bow. And lest you have any doubts as to what the author is trying to convey, the text will spell it out for you, three times in a row:

“You don’t have to be her, Isabel.”
Her meant their mother.
She knew he meant their mother.

As a Booker nominee, I wished the text was weirder, darker, more daring. Less sentimental. Less milquetoast.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

I love the notion of Sophie Mackintosh writing this book!

Julia Armfield would be my pick

Although there would need to be more watery metaphors.

Not sure I like the idea of my Aunt Dolores reading Chapter 10.

I did like the way the author thanked her own family in the afterword for their respect in not referring to Chapter 10.

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Julia Armfield would be my pick

Although there would need to be more watery metaphors."

I did think of Julia Armfield too (!), but haven't read her latest yet.

On Chapter 10, as a Booker nominee, I had hoped it would be more transgressive, more subversive, more boundary-pushing, in content and in form.

Apropos the acknowledgements section, it reads to me like a crowdsourced novel that elicited too much feedback from too many readers, in the process plugging to many gaps and losing all of its edges. The author didn't have to over explain quite so much.

It would have needed to be set 8 years earlier for Julia Armfield - 1953 would have been absolutely perfect for her.

Is Julia Armfield as backward-looking as this book is? I agree with those who suggest that she or Sophie Mackintosh would have done something transgressive and surprising but I'm not sure either would have gone for this premise. I disliked this book for its early predictability and the rather maudlin tone.

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Not sure I like the idea of my Aunt Dolores reading Chapter 10.

I did like the way the author thanked her own family in the afterword for their respect in not referring to Chapter 10."

I have a funny story about Chapter 10. I read this on audiobook and when I'm in my car the bluetooth automatically starts playing what I was last listening to. I was going out to lunch with some coworkers and I offered to drive. Of course I only remembered the bluetooth thing when it started playing while my coworkers were in the car. I've never turned down the volume so fast in my life.

But_i_thought_ wrote: "I am with Lesley and Anna on this one. My review:

The Safekeep is the kind of book your Aunt Dolores will love. It is easy, it is breezy, it has mass appeal. I can see it being adapted for the big..."

Great review. I read it when I was about a third of the way through and I wonder how much it influenced my opinion the rest of the way. I ended up liking it a little more than you (3.5)--sometimes I wonder if I tend to grade debut authors on a curve-- but I agree that it doesn't live up the promise of the premise or even the beginning. In the beginning, it did feel like we were going to get something dark that raises interesting questions, but it definitely become melodramatic and a little too neat.

I agree that she spelled too much out. That was actually an issue I had with Prophet Song last year. It takes a confident author to trust their readers enough to pick up on the themes and motifs without spelling them out so much that they lose their effectiveness.

That’s a funny story.

I'm in progress with this one. I keep thinking about the comment above, referring to the book as sloppy. I'm still undecided whether it's sloppy or just messy. I've seen it described elsewhere as a vibes book. Usually I would see that as a compliment, but here it might just be a nice way of saying the book doesn't work.

Mat wrote: "Great review. I read it when I was about a third of the way through and I wonder how much it influenced my opinion the rest of the way..."

Thank you.

Added to that, I think the novel had the potential to be brutal and hard-hitting. It could have been a real gut punch. It played it too safe for me, living up to its title.

I was intrigued how this would work on a re-read given the twist.

It actually worked well - I think because the book is more than the twist: Isabelle re-examining aspects of her life (the confrontations with Uncle Karel and Rian) and then the working out of her relationship with Eva. So knowing what was coming (which anyway I know different readers worked out at different times) did not really change the story.

It’s not to say though that it’s even close to the top or even the middle of my list - but I may move it above Headshot which I found really lacking on a re-read.

Mat wrote: "Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "Not sure I like the idea of my Aunt Dolores reading Chapter 10.

I did like the way the author thanked her own family in the afterword for their respect in ..."

That is funny! ;-)

This at present has taken an inarguable place at the bottom of the longlist even though there are some bits I liked. But I had an issue with the extremely improbable Isabel-Eva gimmick that was magnified tenfold by the ridiculous drawn out and IMO unpleasant sex scenes. Their is a market for erotica but I don't see the Booker as that market. I have heard it said before and completely agree--No one ever writes a good sex scene. I know there are a few exceptions and I even read a book that was one of those exceptions this year, but as a rule, I would prefer authors that aren't making them brilliant to leave them completely out or make them intentionally short.

Sam wrote: "This at present has taken an inarguable place at the bottom of the longlist even though there are some bits I liked. But I had an issue with the extremely improbable Isabel-Eva gimmick that was mag..."

I agree with you, Sam. This is book for adults. We only need a lead-in sentence, and our imagination can fill in the rest. I have no desire to read erotica, especially in a Booker-longlisted book. I was pleased that Anne Michaels in Held only gave us a hint and let our imagination fill in the details.

I want to add that the sex being same-sex had nothing to do with it for me. I would have felt the same had the book been hetero-sex. We just don't need sex scenes spelled out. Unless a person is looking for erotica, it's a big turn-off.

I did like the atmosphere in this book, though I wish it had been a darker book, but I'm one who loves dark books and plenty of tragedy. I get lighter moments during the few hours I watch TV.

Someone in my Instagram post has pointed out something which I am not sure we have discussed here - this book is likely to be championed heavily by the chair of judges.

I assumed that was one of the main reasons it was longlisted GY.

Yes I cannot recall if we ever discussed here though

I made that association when the idea of judges' personal favorites being selected was mentioned but I don't remember seeing any more than that hint. Regardless, I think the book is this year'Snap and though it may make the shortlist, I would be extremely disappointed were it pushed into the winning slot. I doubt the other judges would risk that blot to their reputations.

With Snap it was more a judge picking a book she has personally promoted and in a genre she write in and which in its pure form does not normally appear on the Booker. There was a more clear cut case that year with Sabrina.

This one is actually proving very popular with loudest of Booker followers on Instagram in particular.

I had the impression it was a real marmite book (although the same could be said for many of the titles on the longlist).

I would have liked it so much more if it were marmite.

Gumble's Yard - Golden Reviewer wrote: "I would have liked it so much more if it were marmite."

Fair point!

Well, I didn't think I could find a book I liked less than Headshot but I was wrong. I do not understand why this book is on the Booker longlist. It contains all the typical contemporary techniques of many run of the mill books: melodramatic instant infatuation, the old "opposites attract" saw, enemies to lovers, and the early attempt to deceive the reader followed by a (in this case predictable) plot twist. It is definitely not my taste and is at the bottom of my ranking.

ugh, y'all are not making this sound appealing at all.

Rose, definitely read it & see what you think!! I understand what is being said above about predictability structure & etc., but it’s not an erotica novel (there’s the first part of chapter ten as mentioned with the main sex scene, it’s not as graphic as I was expecting with some of these comments either) & I found much more to this book than any of that... while I’m waiting until I’ve completed more to rank the longlist myself so not sure where it’ll fall as “a Booker” for me personally, but I rather enjoyed the book & it had some wonderful strengths!! it seems that many in this group & the new lit group have also given it four or five stars, so don’t get discouraged! :)

Thanks, Victoria! I liked Headshot more than I expected to, so I should give this a chance as well.

I finished this too and don't have much to add. Usually, I don't mind a vibes book that's a bit messy and loose with the plot. Here, though, it felt more sloppy than messy, like it could have used an editor with a stronger hand.

Nope, not my kind of book.

I absolutely loved this book which I think makes me an Aunt Dolores? Oh, dear. The sex scenes had me blushing and the "twist" was predictable but the characters were interesting. Van der Wouden made not so safe choices, with a relatively unlikable main character and set during a time period that doesn't lend itself to the literary oomph WWII.

I also enjoyed Absolution by Alice McDermott which also explores the aftermath of war. These two books are implicating people who are removed from the front lines but are ultimately benefactors of the evils of war. Really loved this one and hope it's short listed.

I was very happy to see a Dutch author on the longlist, but I did not like this book, and I went into it expecting to like it. It's very predictable, too much explicit sex, and just kind of blah.

I think those classing this as erotica are really a bit wide of the mark. Yes, there's an explicit sex scene in it, but that is all.
I actually quite enjoyed it. Yes you can pretty much guess where it is going to end up but I think there's a bit more depth than people are acknowledging.
I wouldn't say it is aspiring to be a great literary novel and I'm a bit surprised that it has made the longlist but for me it was a lot more enjoyable than at least half the books on the list and a lot better than at least one or two of them.

I do not see the literary merit of this book - it's pretty much a romance dressed up as historical fiction. It's at the bottom of my list and unlikely to move.