Catching up on Classics (and lots more!) discussion

Big Two-Hearted River by Ernest Hemingway is our November 2024 Short Story/Novella Read.

This discussion will open on November 1

Beware Short Story Discussions will have Spoilers

I am reading from a short story collection I bought for this story. I really am looking forward to reading more from the book. The Nick Adams Stories.

Here's Wikipedia article that talks about this collection:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nic...

Nick Adams as a character is found in multiple stories by Hemingway. Where Nick Adams appears the story is considered to be at least partially autobiographical. The reason this collection is somewhat controversial is because the Nick Adams stories are selected and arranged to provide an overarching narrative and some unpublished writings were added to make the narrative more complete. In the Science Fiction world that type this type of publishing is call a "fix-up novel". City by Clifford D. Simak is an example.

Just reading the one short story is fine for this discussion thread.

Here's an online pdf you can read:

https://wl.apsva.us/wp-content/upload...

Here is another version:

https://samkoenen.com/wp-content/uplo...

I have a collection of Hemingway short stories. I wonder if I can find it and join in the discussion.

I just finished this, an excellent way to spend an evening. Lynn, thanks for the info.

Once, long long ago, I read all the Nick Adams stories. I think they are as close as you will get to who Hemingway was just following WWI, young and somewhat lost.

The story, for me, is just an illustration of what has been lost and what can be regained. The burned out town can never be put together again, but the river and the forest are intact and nature does not seem to notice at all the absence of man. The deeper Nick gets into the forest, the more at peace and happy he becomes, and he is smart enough to avoid going into the darkness of the swamp, even though he leaves that as a possibility for another day. I think the swamp might represent all the tragedy and horror he has left behind on the battlefield.

I did experience some confusion about the friend, Hopkins, who inherited the fortune and disappeared. I wondered if he had actually returned to claim his inheritance and then forgotten his friends or if he was lost in the war and never really got to take up the life he imagined with the money and the boat. Of course, the way Nick tells the story, Hopkins leaves after getting the telegram and then is never heard from again, so I might be reading too much there.

This was virtually a new story for me, although Nick was a known character. I felt, as I usually do, that Hemingway's strength is in his ability to paint a picture of a place with so few words. Sparse writing, but vivid to me. I could see the trout jumping for the grasshoppers and feel the tug of the line, the cold of the water and the racing of Nick's heart. First time I have been fishing in years.

I agree with you Sara that there is symbolism in the burned out town of Seney. This story was published in 1923. A mere five years earlier Hemingway was recuperating from shrapnel wounds. This story seems to me to be about wish fulfillment and a dream of the best possible post-war recuperation.

Nick's arrival on a train with his rucksack reminded me of soldiers. Next the town is burned out like a war zone. Finally he walks out of the ashes, commenting on the ashes, to arrive at a place of peace and rest.

Nothing I said was profound and when I looked online I found many others have thought the same. Still I can see how appealing this peaceful story would have been at the time it was published. Hemingway's writing is lovely. I gave it 4*

It just occurred to me that the slim volume of Hemingway’s stories called In Our Time would have this story, and it does! So I think I will sneak it in. I can’t get to it for a couple of days, though.

Sara and Lynn, thanks for reminding me of the depth of symbolism in this short story. Almost every passage can be thought about and interpreted in different ways. I was not unaware of the symbolism while reading, I just choose to focus on the solitude. It was so easy to imagine myself in Nicks place.

Terry wrote: "It just occurred to me that the slim volume of Hemingway’s stories called In Our Time would have this story, and it does! So I think I will sneak it in. I can’t get to it for a couple of days, though."

That's a good thought Terry. If anyone is interested, here's an online pdf of In Our Time by Hemingway

https://www.fadedpage.com/showbook.ph...

I finished Part 2 this morning. I understood the symbolism of the blackened earth of the town immediately which led me to believe that Nick was returning from war seeking to find peace in nature.

Beyond that, it became a story about fishing, which was okay, but felt more like a story for a magazine. The prose was very evocative of the place and the fishing experience.

Nick’s choice of cuisine was a bit sickening to me. I wondered why.

It's a little bit like prose in a primer for me. And I don't think I would go to a restaurant called "Big Two-Hearted River."

Hemingway is Hemingway. I'm still waiting on my library hold to come in. I went through a Hemingway phase in my 20s and even though I've fairly sure I never read this particular Hemingway short story before, I pretty much know what to expect.

Back to the idea of Nature in Hemingway's writing. When I taught Literature to teenagers we usually read To Build a Fire and The Call of the Wild by Jack London. In those books the setting was more than simply a background location. The textbooks would have the students consider Nature (with a capital N) to be another character in the story. Hemingway, whose youth overlaps with Jack London's later writing years, was probably influenced by his writings.

That makes a lot of sense, Lynn.

I loved this story. I didn't have high expectations since it was an early piece. I'm glad I purchase the whole collection of Nick Adams stories because I'll look forward to getting to the rest at some point.

Thank you Sara and Lynn for bringing up all the great things about this one.

I know Hemingway isn't for everyone but I've loved everything I've read of his so far.

I am the same, Sue. I know many others don't like him, but I find his writing to be marvelous.

I read all your comments before posting and I agree with the analyses. There is the Centennial Edition on Hoopla, with a foreword by John N. Maclean, and he gives focus to what you all suspect. Plus it’s illustrated!

My overarching view on Hemingway is that almost everything he wrote is autobiographical, plus his characters are based on real people and are not composites like most authors create. Yet it’s not an extended memoir. What he contributes and for which he deserves enormous credit is his writing style. If you read him out loud you’ll notice how near poetry it is and that is what makes him so appealing as a writer.

He definitely was a real life jerk, but a charming one. I would avoid his toxic friendship at all costs if I could somehow keep from being won over by his charisma.

I think the Forward by John N MacLean in the Centennial Edition added a lot to the story. I'm glad that's the edition I found/read.

I thought of it as a camping story about a man finding peace and calm in nature. Thanks, Sara and Lynn, for bringing out the deeper message of the story.

Finished. I completely agree about a troubled WWI veteran:

1) The burned town, could have been just that, but the black grasshoppers makes no sense biologically.

2) “He felt all the old feeling.” In other words: He is starting to feel something again.

3) “Nick felt awkward and professionally happy with all his equipment hanging from him.”
“professionally happy” is a peculiar expression. Like a soldier who knows exactly where his gear is?

The swamp could be darker things he is leaving for another day, but he seems to know that he will conquer it.

A very well written story. It seems that nothing much is happening. But a lot is going on. I am not much of a fan of Hemingway (especially The Sun Also Rises) but all the short stories I have read have been good.