Victorians! discussion

Mrs. Rudge visits Mr. Haredale and relinquish the annuity that is paid to her (It was paid since her husband was killed alongside with Reuben Haredale). Now here is a mystery. Mr. Haredale is baffled. Mrs. Rudge refuses to give reason for her decision.

Mr. Haredale next day visits Mr. Varden to enlist his help to persuade Mrs. Rudge to continue accepting her annuity. At Mr. Varden's house Mr. Haredale lerans the disturbing news that there is some secret connection between a highwayman, the very man who robbed and injured Mr. Edward Chester, and Mrs. Rudge. The two men together go to Mrs. Rudge's lodging to find to that she and Barnaby are gone and Mr. Chester there. Mr. Chester informs the two gentlemen that he had bought them out!

Mr. Chester seeks an interview with Mrs. Varden. His intention is to stop Dolly and Mr. Varden helping Edward and Emma. With his cunning and sugary words, he manages to win Mrs. Varden and attain his objective.
Not being satisfied with all the deception he has employed, Mr. Chester goes to meet Emma Haredale in person. Having met her on her walk, he misrepresents Edward and his intention to Emma. Emma is broken.

Meanwhile unable to bear the ill-treatment from his father, Joe quits Maypole. He joins the army and leaves England. But before he leaves, he meets Dolly Varden and confesses his love to which he doesn't receive an encouraging answer.

Mr. Chester's deception has worked well. Edward's and Emma's attachment is broken. Edward fears his father's interference in the affair. In any case, Edward is not ready to bow down to his father's wishes. So the son and father parts.

Thus, both love stories come to a temporary halt. :)

The mystery of the strange man deepens and Mr. Chester's villainy is confirmed. What an interesting segment that was!

Piyangie wrote: "Thus, both love stories come to a temporary halt. :)..."

Not to mention both father-son relationships! That was unexpected.

I can't stand Mr Chester and found it tiring to read about his plotting and scheming. And John Willet is now also confirmed as a bad guy, if not a villain. The Maypole gang did not sound so bad in the very first chapter, but none of them seemed to care one straw for poor Joe. Not even Dolly, though here there is still hope. I rather pity her.

Not sure if I will be able to wait until next weekend. I really want to know what has happened to Joe and Edward! 😊

Lindenblatt wrote: "Piyangie wrote: "Thus, both love stories come to a temporary halt. :)..."

Not to mention both father-son relationships! That was unexpected...."

Ah, yes! However, I'm glad that Edward is out of the influence of Mr. Chester. He is a nasty man. As for John Willet and Joe, hope they could work out their differences. John Willet doesn't seem a bad person, although he is of the rough old school!

I may be reading too much into this (I tend to over-analyse lol) but I found Mary’s short interaction with Miss Haredale interesting. “the widow shrunk from (Emma’s) embrace as though she feared her” and again later on “recoiled with the same indescribable repugnance she had manifested when they met”, my conclusion to this behaviour is perhaps due to Emma reminding her of the late Mr Haredale? Or relating to the night of the murder somehow? What do you guys think?

Quite unfortunate that both sons have now parted from their fathers :( I wish Joe’s departure was different from what we read but I think its clear now that Dolly does have feelings for him (her crying on her bed) but she couldn’t show that due to Mr Tappertit snooping in the dark?

Daryl wrote: "I may be reading too much into this (I tend to over-analyse lol) but I found Mary’s short interaction with Miss Haredale interesting. “the widow shrunk from (Emma’s) embrace as though she feared he..."

I think Mary's behaviour could be attributed to both the reasons you've mentioned, Daryl.
As for Dolly, I'm not too sure if she knew of Tappertit's presence. She is just a giddy young girl whom nevertheless seems to have a deeper affection for Joe.

I have only read thru chapter 28, but wow. Mr Chester sure had a busy evening, what with all the trolling, and then with all the flattery, and finally with all the scheming!

Busy fellow. And such a horrible person.

Beda wrote: "I have only read thru chapter 28, but wow. Mr Chester sure had a busy evening, what with all the trolling, and then with all the flattery, and finally with all the scheming!

Busy fellow. And such a horrible person..."

We all agree that of Mr. Chester!

I really liked this quote from ch. XXV…

“Ye men of gloom and austerity, who paint the face of Infinite Benevolence with an eternal frown; read in the Everlasting Book, wide open to your view, the lesson it would teach. Its pictures are not in black and sombre hues, but bright and glowing tints; its music—save when you drown it—is not in sighs and groans, but songs and cheerful sounds. Listen to the million voices in the summer air, and find one dismal as your own. Remember…if you can…the sense of hope and pleasure which every glad return of day awakens in the breast of all your kind who have not changed their nature; and learn some wisdom even from the witless, when their hearts are lifted up the know not why, by all the mirth and happiness it brings.”
— C. Dickens, “Barnaby Rudge,” (1841) Oxford Illustrated, pp. 188-189

Any thoughts.

I see that everyone agrees with my feelings about Mr. Chester!
I wonder what Edward is going to do next? Will he join the army too?
Poor Emma, being lied to so convincingly.
Poor Joe, with a father like that and in love with the coquette, Dolly.

Does she have any real suitors or is she just a flirt?

So Mr. Chester’s bomb has exploded, and the shrapnel has wounded so many. His evil cunning needs checking, but there doesn’t seem anyone in this story capable of doing it. Mr. Haredale and Gabriel Varden could be possible allies who might join forces to tackle this evil man.

Both couples have split up and both son’s have left home, Joe is already out of England on his way to foreign parts. None of the humour in this section could raise my spirits due to the tragedy of Chester’s wicked machinations. However, I did enjoy the ‘recruiting serjeant’s’ speech about the perks of ‘military life.’

’ Joe walked out, stopped at the door of the next room, and listened. The serjeant was describing a military life. It was all drinking, he said, except that there were frequent intervals of eating and love-making. A battle was the finest thing in the world–when your side won it– and Englishmen always did that. ‘Supposing you should be killed, sir?’ said a timid voice in one corner. ‘Well, sir, supposing you should be,’ said the serjeant, ‘what then? Your country loves you, sir; his Majesty King George the Third loves you; your memory is honoured, revered, respected; everybody’s fond of you, and grateful to you; your name’s wrote down at full length in a book in the War Office. Damme, gentlemen, we must all die some time, or another, eh?’

Dolly’s hard, ‘couldn’t care less’ face when Joe was saying good-bye, annoyed me a little. Her vanity, pride and youthful arrogance will cause her trouble, even if she has got the coach builder’s son in her back pocket. And Joe’s absence will only give Tappertit greater confidence to ‘carry ‘er off’ or inflict other such unpleasantnesses on her. What a contrast to Miss Haredale, whose tears in front of the ghoul Chester were totally wasted, except to give him pleasure in her misery even more.

Although I wouldn’t condone violence, Joe’s retaliation at the Maypole was understandable, with at least one of those ‘know-all gentlemen’ ( I think there is a set of them in every pub in England even today) getting their comeuppance at last.


(‘Finished by driving him with surprising swiftness against a heap of spitoons in one corner.’ by Fred Barnard. 1874.)

’ Joe started up, overturned the table, fell upon his long enemy, pummelled him with all his might and main, and finished by driving him with surprising swiftness against a heap of spittoons in one corner; plunging into which, head foremost, with a tremendous crash, he lay at full length among the ruins, stunned and motionless. ’

I agree that Mrs. Rudge's shrinking away from Emma is likely connected to the memory of the murder, but the reason for her extreme reaction is as mysterious as her reason for giving up the annuity provided by Mr. Haredale and her abrupt departure from the home she and Barnaby has shared for many years.
I believe Dolly is a sweet but immature girl who cannot really conceive of the idea that Joe may be gone for good. She is too accustomed to flirting and stringing along her suitors to take Joe seriously. I think both she and Joe were unaware of Sim's presence during their conversation, but I'm sure he presents a great danger to her.
I hope for the best for both Edward and Joe. They are lucky to rid of their fathers, although Mr. Chester is plainly evil whereas John Willett may just be an ignorant bully.
Finally, I definitely have a favorite character: Grip! Dickens portrays him as having high intelligence and an uncanny understanding of what is happening with his human masters. That may be a bit of anthropomorphism, but it's an enjoyable one for me.

For a book entitled Barnaby Rudge, we really haven't seen a lot of Barnaby.

Nancy wrote: "I agree that Mrs. Rudge's shrinking away from Emma is likely connected to the memory of the murder, but the reason for her extreme reaction is as mysterious as her reason for giving up the annuity and her abrupt departure from the home she and Barnaby has shared for many years..."

You could be right about Dolly and I may have been a little too harsh. I hope so.

As for Mrs. Rudge, I think that the reason she left so abruptly and gave up the annuity is all because of the mysterious stranger who now has a pernicious hold over her and her son.

Mrs Rudge has said this about her annuity…..

‘ I never will again subsist upon their bounty, or let it help me to subsistence. You do not know,’ she added, suddenly, ‘to what uses it may be applied; into what hands it may pass. I do, and I renounce it.’

and why she has to move…….

’ ‘I am guilty, and yet innocent; wrong, yet right; good in intention, though constrained to shield and aid the bad. Ask me no more questions, sir; but believe that I am rather to be pitied than condemned. I must leave my house to-morrow, for while I stay there, it is haunted. My future dwelling, if I am to live in peace, must be a secret.’

I think she is attempting to hide herself and her son from the mysterious stranger, but if he does find her, and demands food and money, she will know that none of it comes from the Haredales.

Rosemarie wrote: "I see that everyone agrees with my feelings about Mr. Chester!
I wonder what Edward is going to do next? Will he join the army too?
Poor Emma, being lied to so convincingly.
Poor Joe, with a fathe..."

I was livid with Mr. Chester for blatantly misrepresenting Edward. Poor Emma and Edward.

As for Dolly, I don't think she has any particular suitor. She is a vain young thing who liked to be admired. But I sense that she cares for Joe than she admits to herself.

Well, I’m now done with this section, in which we have lost a good bit of the cast, between the two sons who have had done with their fathers, and Mrs. Rudge and Barnaby, who have departed for parts unknown. I’m sure all will be seen again. But for now, are off.

I see the next chapter is set 5 years later, in 1780, which not at all incidentally, is the year of the Gordon Riots. So things might get extra lively next week! I have enjoyed the tale so far, but am curious about the centerpiece event. And also curious as to why the book’s namesake is so far not much around!

I was puzzled by why Mrs. Rudge wanted to give up her annuity because of this strange man's hold on her. Couldn't she have told about him to Mr. Haredale? He is a kind and considerate man.

Rosemarie wrote: "For a book entitled Barnaby Rudge, we really haven't seen a lot of Barnaby."

True that is, Rosemarie. So far, he is just a minor character.

Beda wrote: "Well, I’m now done with this section, in which we have lost a good bit of the cast, between the two sons who have had done with their fathers, and Mrs. Rudge and Barnaby, who have departed for part..."

1780 is the year of Gordon Riots, Beda.

As to the identity of the strange man, I remembered the murder of Mr Reuben Haredale described in chapter 1. I believe that the gardener has never been heard from again?
Mrs Rudge would have known that gardener, so if he is the strange man, then it would explain how they know each other. Still doesn't explain, though, why she cannot give him up to the current Mr Haredale.
And why he (the strange man) would show such an interest in Barnaby. Anybody noticed that comment when he was glancing at the sleeping Barnaby? Or was it just Mrs Rudge being concerned that her son would get involved with dangerous men?

Lindenblatt wrote: "As to the identity of the strange man, I remembered the murder of Mr Reuben Haredale described in chapter 1. I believe that the gardener has never been heard from again?
Mrs Rudge would have known..."

I also feel that strange man is somehow connected with Reuben Haredale's murder.

Hablot Browne’s illustrations are almost as descriptive as Dickens’ text.

Here is a Rogues’ gallery of the ‘bad guys’ so far.

1. The mysterious stranger


2. Hugh


3. Mr. Chester


4. Tappertit


What a nasty bunch they are!

Thanks, Trev! The illustrations are again quite delightful. For some reason the one of Mr. Chester reminds me of the animated Grinch. (But I don’t see Chester’s heart growing any larger by the end!)

I’ve finally finished this section! It certainly moved the plot along, but was also quite disturbing as Chester winds his hurtful lies.

I have grave concerns for the Rudges on their own in the world. What hold does the stranger have on the widow? If the missing gardener, does he know some damaging secret? Could he be an estranged relative whose connection would be embarrassing? I find him very sinister!

I’m still struggling with some of the details and lesser characters. Hopefully, more threads will come together when the story picks up in five years… A lot can happen in five years.

I feel very sad for the Rudges. Mrs. Rudge is certainly weighed down by a past secret. I hope we'll soon get to know who this man is who wields such a power over her.

The first paragraph of Chapter 29 is one of the things I love about Victorian fiction and Dickens in particular. So out of fashion now, this author intrusion!

First paragraph of Ch. 29:

"The thoughts of worldly men are for ever regulated by a moral law of gravitation, which, like the physical one, holds them down to earth. The bright glory of day, and the silent wonders of a starlit night, appeal to their minds in vain. There are no signs in the sun, or in the moon, or in the stars, for their reading. They are like some wise men, who, learning to know each planet by its Latin name, have quite forgotten such small heavenly constellations as Charity, Forbearance, Universal Love, and Mercy, although they shine by night and day so brightly that the blind may see them; and who, looking upward at the spangled sky, see nothing there but the reflection of their own great wisdom and book-learning."