Old Books, New Readers discussion
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The Tenant of Wildfell Hall
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January 2025 BOTM: The Tenant of Wildfell Hall
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How long is this read? Maybe we should read it over two months?
Enjoy Reading, 📚
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There are several editions and most are under 500 pages. Is there a reason the penguin must be read?
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My edition, published by Chiltern, puts me at 528 pages with very minimal notes and preface.
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Enjoy Reading, 📚
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However, I presume most of you will be under 500.
I included a reading schedule above based on chapters instead of pages.
Happy reading to you all :)
I'll be checking in here frequently with discussion topics and other musings.
Hey everyone! It’s my first time trying BOTM. Do the discussions occur here at random?
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Yes, but I will also post questions and bits of character analysis to engage a discourse.
Just try to keep your comments within the chapters in the schedule, so we don't spoil any events for those who haven't read.
I appreciate you being here!
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Chapter one reflections:
I don’t think I’ve read a book that addresses a personal conflict so quickly and adequately as this one does. This epistolary opening also gives us a more in-depth peak into Gilbert Markham’s character. In terms of the conflict itself, you have an individual who is somewhat torn between his father’s aspirations and his own. Out of three siblings, he is chosen to be the example of virtue and pragmatism, which already seems like something he subtly pushes against. He is well aware of the social order / responsibility but is also too intelligent to leap into it with both feet.
The introduction of the mysterious Mrs. Graham naturally parallels Gilbert’s character, and Anne Bronte does an excellent job pairing these transgressive personalities. I love how the brother, Fergus, is excited to have someone new in town to take the heat off his own shortcomings. When someone comes into a town like this, their very presence is a threat to the social order. I find that it has less to do with her molding into the customs of this provincial area and more to do with her threatening influence on those around her.
For all the readers, do you feel like the town wants to help her or is their concern simply a façade for their probing natures?
I don't think the town particularly wants to help her at this point. They may be excited about the prospect of new friends/society but may as easily just want something to talk about.
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I agree! There seems to be not much going on there, other than the Parish family and their celebrity-like status. Mrs. Graham has captured the attention of the town.
I like how Brontë has made the protagonist a man and draws up the gender roles and social status of the time. It makes me curious how this will set up the rest of the story, or how the new lady will conflict with Gilbert. I felt that Fergus’ reaction was a foreshadowing; he seems bored and excited for something new and the rest of town is anticipating how much it will disrupt their way of life. Although the mother’s advices may have helpful intentions, I think she’s probing and Mrs Graham seems to see right through it and be disgusted by them all.
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Chapter two reflections
This section opens up with a beautifully executed setting description, allowing the reader to come upon the Wildfell estate through the eyes of a hunter. We walk through the woods with our protagonist, Gilbert, who is wielding both gun and dog through this harsh environment. Bronte could have placed him there doing a different action, maybe performing some quiet saunter through the fields, but I feel she needed to exploit his masculine side. I love this personified description: “a group of Scotch firs, themselves half blighted with storms, and looking as stern and gloomy as the Hall itself” (24).
(These page numbers are from the Chiltern edition, an imprint of Atlantic Publishing)
Aside from the setting, we finally get a one-on-one impromptu meeting with Mrs. Graham. It’s a somewhat awkward exchange but telling to say the least. Mrs. Graham shoots down Gilbert’s presumptions that she was admiring him at church, which puts him in such a tailspin that he has to redue the affair with Eliza Millward.
For all the readers, what can we infer about Gilbert’s personality from these two exchanges? Do you feel that Mrs. Gilberts reaction to Gilbert’s “smile” was appropriate?
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First of all, thank you for joining our read and providing comments that go beyond merely plot moves. I, too, feel like this story is flipping gender roles and having fun with it too. You have a protagonist who is clearly more reflective (comfortable?) divulging his emotions in epistolary form instead of expounding on them in real life. In chapter two, there's a couple moments when he doubles down on his masculinity, specifically, his interactions with a cat.
This line comes to mind: "I believe it is natural for our unamiable sex to dislike the creatures....for you ladies lavish so many caresses upon them" (28).
Gilbert, yes, I'm talking to you. It's ok to like cats and be a man (hug) :)
In terms of Fergus, I like your take as well. That town needs a shot of drama, and he's totally game for it.
Ch2:The description of Wildfell made me think it was symbolic of Mrs Graham. “Venerable and picturesque to look at, but doubtless, cold and gloomy to inhabit”(20) (Oxford), describes to me Gilbert’s curiosity towards her. I like how you pointed out that it’s “through the eyes of a hunter”.
Based on Gilbert’s reaction to being shot down, I observe that he hasn’t experienced opposition much and is shocked by Mrs Grahams complexities. Coming from a town with no surprises, being the eldest boy, Mrs Graham has challenged him.
I think Mrs Graham being a widow and newcomer, her guard doesn’t seem too inappropriate but I can see how it might be to Gilbert.
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The description of Wildfell made me think it was symbolic of Mrs Graham. “Venerable and picturesque to look at, but doubtless, cold and gloomy to inhabit”(20) (Oxford), describes to me Gilbert..."
Mix wrote: "Ch2:
The description of Wildfell made me think it was symbolic of Mrs Graham. “Venerable and picturesque to look at, but doubtless, cold and gloomy to inhabit”(20) (Oxford), describes to me Gilbert..."
Great point, Mix! Wildfell is a personified version of Mrs. Graham herself and maybe also foreshadows the harsh reality she might have left behind. Her exterior may be refined, but something is amiss in her mental state.
On a different note, Gilbert has little experience with the word "no" and is perplexed and equally enamored with this strange woman. Compared to Eliza Millward, she might as well be from another planet.
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Chapter three reflections
To much of their surprise, Mrs. Graham has paid a visit to the Markham residence, contradicting her own reputation as the new social pariah on the block. She has brought her son, Arthur, who becomes a source of happiness and contention during their “conversation” that seems more like a moral interrogation.
Mrs. Markham peppers Mrs. Graham with unsolicited advice about child rearing, pedagogy methods, and spiritual guidance. In a tone that is equally brash and decorous, Mrs. Graham expertly filleted her arguments, exposing their contradictions and double standards on the table for all to see. Although Gilbert seems peeved by her progressive views, her subversive presence has taken influence on the household, most importantly, on Gilbert himself.
Bronte hints at this in the following passage: “ ‘No occasion to trouble the vicar,’ said Mrs. Graham, glancing at me—I suppose I was smiling at my mother’s unbounded confidence in that worthy gentleman”
For all the readers, based on this exchange, I think we all can agree that Mrs. Graham does not shy away from an argument. Does this personality trait give us a clue about where she came from? I imagine she has come from an environment that is cosmopolitan in nature and attitude, probably a municipal area. But maybe it’s just her.
That's an interesting view I hadn't thought about--where she's from influencing how she responds. I interpreted this as a parenting reaction born of practice defending her point of view. I've had a similar reaction of defiance when people have told me how to better raise my children (especially when my son wanted to grow his hair long!). Now that I'm thinking of it though, she might be used to a different audience, as an artist and an introvert.I think Gilbert was longing for a challenge. At the beginning, we see him flattered but bored. Now, Mrs. Graham isn't stroking his ego, but he's being forced to think about his actual opinions rather than just whatever entertains his friends and family.
Ch3 I kept thinking about how Mrs markham complained about Mr Millward’s unsolicited advice towards her raising her sons when she was doing the same thing to Mrs Graham. I wondered if she was doing the same because of the “unbounded confidence”towards him or if she was not self-aware.
As Hannah mentioned, I too didn’t think about where Mrs graham came from based on her response. I thought it might be her own unique experience.
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Yes, of course, she is naturally in super-mom mode, which seems intense and relevant, even back in those times.
Gilbert enjoys being in an environment that gives him an advantage. He is not used to someone acting out of "rhythm" and Mrs. Graham is giving him a run for his money. Keen observation, Hannah.
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I kept thinking about how Mrs markham complained about Mr Millward’s unsolicited advice towards her raising her sons when she was doing the same thing to Mrs Graham. I wondered if she was doin..."
The didactic lecturer doesn't like to be lectured herself, which is a common behavioral trait for someone like that. What if Mrs. Markham's "unbounded confidence" towards Mr. Millward is really jealousy disguised as idolatry?
After rereading your response numerous times, I am stuck wondering the same thing.
I poised the other question about Mrs. Graham's background because the town itself and its inhabitants seemed a little behind the times when juxtaposed with her lifestyle and opinions. I wasn't sure if Bronte might be doing that to spark inquiry about her [Mrs. Graham's] background.
Something I found interesting and didn't expect to read in Chapter 4 was the use of the term "heaving bosom" in the paragraph expanding on Eliza Millward. Because I've read a lot of romance novels in my time this is a rather term that is used frequently and regarded with some disdain amongst people who don't read romance novels and even some who read a higher calibre of romance novel.
In discussing this with a friend it occurred to me that perhaps Anne Brontë was making fun of romance novels. I don't know if the term was seen in the same way then so maybe this is my modern view on it, but it certainly feels to me like the author maybe had some less positive feelings about some of her contemporaries.
Or maybe it is simpler than that, maybe she is just trying to make you understand that Eliza is nothing more than a good time and hasn't got any depth.
Danny- I’m not sure how to respond/reply to a specific posts but your comment about jealousy and idolatry makes me think about the fine line between the two when one becomes the other. And your previous question made me think about where Mrs Graham could’ve came from like you said because of her juxtaposition from the others👍🏼
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I’m not sure how to respond/reply to a specific posts but your comment about jealousy and idolatry makes me think about the fine line between the two when one becomes the other. And your pr..."
Hey Mix, when you see a reply from me or any commenter, there is a section on the bottom of the post that reads as follows:
reply | delete | flag
When you want to comment on a specific post, click on the "reply" word, highlighted in what looks like the color teal. You will see the previous message above and then you comment below it.
I hope that clears things up :)
On a different note, I had looked up the words, jealousy and idolatry, and all these biblical references came up, which makes me believe that these words are closely linked and have been talked about for centuries.
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This chapter unleashes Brontë’s most scathing critique of the town and provincial society in general. She does this through Gilbert’s eyes while keeping him oblivious of his own egotism. One can see how rehearsed and performative everyone is through his descriptions, making this my favorite chapter thus far. This specific passage comes to mind: “Mrs. Wilson was more brilliant than ever, with her budgets of fresh news and old scandal , strung together with trivial questions and remarks, and oft-repeated observations....She had brough her knitting with her, and it seemed as if her tongue had laid a wager with her fingers, to outdo them in swift and ceaseless motion”
I love how Brontë compares her personality to knitting, although Mrs. Wilson doesn’t really have to “frog it” to salvage her work. No one is paying attention to the blanket she is making, not even her. The one paying the most attention is Gilbert, but again, his self-awareness is as weak is his mothers. Mr. Lawrence may understand how the world works, but I feel that he would suppress anything that resembles an epiphany. We also see Mrs. Markham throw shade at Mrs. Graham in front of the entire party to gain points with the vicar.
For all the readers, how does Mrs. Markham place the vicar, Mr. Milward, in such high esteem, yet have so much disdain for his daughter, Eliza? What are your views about vices, in relation to the conversation at the party? Does one need to drink wine or laudanum to understand its pull or could one avoid those things altogether and live a fruitful life?
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Because I've read a lot of romance novel..."
I know Elizabeth Gaskell, among other Victorian authors, would poke fun at some of the literary clichés of the time, using their characters. Based on the multi-layered critiques in chapter four alone, I'm pretty sure the term "heaving bosom" was carefully chosen to describe Eliza's coquettish nature and overall shallowness. It also makes Gilbert seem shallow himself for being swayed by all of that. Great analysis, Avionne:)
Ch 4I don’t see the reply option… is it because I’m on my phone?
From our previous discussion about jealousy vs idolatry, I think some people like Mrs. Markham might have both when they’re brought up in that environment towards someone like the vicar. Socially Mrs. Markham might need to revere the vicar for her survival in her society whether she really likes him or not. And areas she’s powerless (which is most) she may have subconscious resentment or jealousy towards him, hence reject Eliza for her son, maybe?
Coming from a whole different era and culture, I believe one can live a fruitful life without alcohol since I don’t drink myself. I think restrictions make some people more curious so I don’t know about completely restricting it but if abstinence is what you need to do if moderation is impossible then I agree with Mr. Lawrence. In traditional cultures, alcohol is often important in social settings. The attention towards its danger is bigger now and we have many other vices to substitute than back then.
Mix wrote: "Ch 4I don’t see the reply option… is it because I’m on my phone?
From our previous discussion about jealousy vs idolatry, I think some people like Mrs. Markham might have both when they’re brou..."
Yeah it is because you are on mobile app. You can only do replies on the website.
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I don’t see the reply option… is it because I’m on my phone?
From our previous discussion about jealousy vs idolatry, I think some people like Mrs. Markham might have both when they’re brou..."
I think you nailed it with that analysis, Mix. Mrs. Markham must have this subservient relationship with the vicar to cement her good social standing, but it doesn't mean she has to like him. Many people warm up to their bosses for advancement but dislike them personally. In a town like that (and most towns in general), people still view life through high-school eyes, clinching to those who are most popular in the community. In this town, the vicar seems like the football star.
In terms of abstinence, I think of people who grew up in the Caribbean have laxed cultural views on alcohol because it was always available to them, regardless of age. I have a Jamaican friend who said they didn't drink when they turned 21 because her home country never made it into some social taboo. She had beer and liquor at family gatherings at a young age, so when she became of age to drink, that desire was already out of her system and pacified through moderation. I agree with Mr. Lawrence too. I'm sure he has some nuanced views from dealing with his alcoholic father.
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Chapter five reflections
This chapter is brief but telling. It’s the first time we are within the walls of Wildfell Hall and Mrs. Graham’s comfort zone. In ways, it is the opposite environment of the previous chapters, where she is clearly at a disadvantage. Up until this point, she has been poked and prodded at, often within earshot, so when Gilbert and Rose visit the hall, there is an invasiveness about their presence, most notably, on Gilbert’s end. I feel that he put forth a series of audacious actions that reveal passive-aggressive behavior. For example, why does he feel the need to scrutinize all her art? Probably more so, why does he feel compelled to look at paintings that are purposely hidden to avoid public view? It’s almost like her decision not to be wooed by him gives him the right to sift through her personal possessions, almost like a cop without a warrant.
For all the readers, do you feel that Gilbert is “acting out” because he feels that all women should receive him like Eliza? Also, is the unknown man peaking in the woods behind Wildfell Hall really a customer?
Danny wrote: "Chapter five reflections
This chapter is brief but telling. It’s the first time we are within the walls of Wildfell Hall and Mrs. Graham’s comfort zone. In ways, it is the opposite environment of..."
As I was reading this chapter I had two thoughts...
1. Who the hell does Gilbert think he is going about rummaging through Mrs. Graham's things?
2. That man in the hidden painting must be Mr. Graham.
I suspect that Gilbert is just so used to being denied nothing that he just doesn't realise he is overstepping. At least that is my generous interpretation. But I do think that the fact that Mrs. Graham doesn't respond to him like Eliza presents a challenge to him that he may not be able to ignore.
The man who visits Mrs. Graham during the chapter is still a mystery to me. For now I am waiting to see as I don't like speculating with so little information.
Ch 5 I agree with both Avionne and Danny that Gilbert is not used to someone like Mrs. Graham. I’m not sure if he’s purposely “acting out” but he does not seem to know boundaries. The way that Mrs. Graham reacted seemed like the mystery man was more than just a customer. She seemed like she wanted to keep him concealed from her guests.
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At this point, it would please me greatly to hear a little self-deprecating humor from Gilbert, as a way to offset his blatant narcissism; however, I don't think he could joke about himself and would surely turn it into a compliment if given the opportunity.
On the other hand, he is somewhat reflective in the first paragraph of the book, but the way he talks about choosing a practical livelihood is bloated with self-righteousness, so I can't file that under humility either.
In terms of Mr. Graham, I share your view. I haven't read enough to make any sense of her backstory, and I prefer it that way. It's like Brontë is baiting us to be as inquisitive and nosey as the town itself but doing so would make us hypocritical.
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I agree with both Avionne and Danny that Gilbert is not used to someone like Mrs. Graham. I’m not sure if he’s purposely “acting out” but he does not seem to know boundaries. The way that Mrs..."
The part that you said about "concealing him from guests" makes me wonder if Mr. Graham secretly lives in the house. I wouldn't put it past Brontë to write about a woman harboring a fugitive since she is clearly writing from a realism perspective. Just a thought.
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Chapter six reflections
We are starting to see Mrs. Graham open up a little and be cordial to Gilbert, beyond the usual customary exchanges she has been giving him thus far. This slight change in her behavior has influenced Gilbert, causing him to reevaluate his attraction to Eliza. Being in the presence of a woman who has actual thoughts allows him to tap into his humility. Brontë does an excellent conveying Gilbert’s shift in attitude in the following passage:
“[b]ut sometimes, I believe, she really had some little gratification in conversing with me; and one bright February morning, during twenty minutes’ stroll along the moor, she laid aside her usual asperity and reserve, and fairly entered into a conversation with me, discoursing with so much eloquence and depth of though and feeling on a subject happily coinciding with my own ideas, and looking quite so beautiful withal, that I went home enchanted”
However, after reading this quote again, I think otherwise, and it all has to do with the phrase “coinciding with my own ideas”. Does she only sound eloquent when she’s echoing his own sentiments? He seemed pretty adverse to our opinions about child rearing at the luncheon. In any case, I feel that he is realizing that she is a bit out of his league, which, in fact, makes me like him a bit more.
For all the readers, do you feel that he respects her intellect since their tense exchange at the party, enough to maybe alter his previous opinions on her views? Also, how do you feel about his exchange with Rose when he arrived home? Are his views about the rigidity of social roles starting to loosen?
Danny wrote: "Chapter six reflections
We are starting to see Mrs. Graham open up a little and be cordial to Gilbert, beyond the usual customary exchanges she has been giving him thus far. This slight change ..."
As I read through this book Gilbert's view of his life is being shaken and possibly expanded. At the very start he is, maybe not content, but has convinced himself that he is comfortable with the life ahead of him. He doesn't love being the farmer but he does it and tries to do it well. He thinks he has found a woman that he can enjoy and perhaps marry. He needs nothing more.
Mrs Graham has opened his eyes a bit to what life could be. She is beautiful and interesting and most importantly challenges him. I suspect that as he spends more time with her, his views will evolve or at least I would hope so. He no doubt will learn to respect her as she doesn't seem the sort of person who would accept anything else from her close companions. I think as his views evolve so will his interactions with his family, which will likely cause interesting conversations.
Danny wrote: "Chapter six reflections
We are starting to see Mrs. Graham open up a little and be cordial to Gilbert, beyond the usual customary exchanges she has been giving him thus far. This slight change ..."
The way that Gilbert observes his parents, more often his mother (like her attitude toward the vicar and his marriage choices), I feel as though he might be more critical than he presents himself. Even during the debate at the party under his sensitive ego, he seemed to still take in to what Mrs. Graham was arguing. The way that Gilbert appreciates his sister pointing out his ignorance on how much he's babied by his mother makes me think his mind could be opened, like how Mrs. Graham is maybe helping him do. His mom seems to be doing the exact thing she was arguing against during the debate with Mrs. Graham.
I heard today’s Anne Brontë’s birthday. Happy birthday!
Mix wrote: "I heard today’s Anne Brontë’s birthday. Happy birthday!"205! She doesn't look a day over 180! :D
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Chapter seven reflection
This section begins with Mrs. Graham getting an unexpected and unwelcomed visit from an inquiring party. Once again, her mysterious arrival to this small town has peaked the interest of its inhabitants, turning her into a regional celebrity. We get a better understanding of Gilbert’s brother, Fergus, and his uncouth nature, through his interactions with Mrs. Graham. Until that exchange, his idiosyncrasies seemed tolerable and even inflated, at times. However, his probing nature was infuriating and helped me understand his family’s attitude towards him. Let’s not forget this passage: “[t]he questions you are requested to solve are these: —First, concerning your birth, extraction, and previous residence. Some will have it that you are a foreigner, and some an Englishwoman; some of a native of the north country, and some of the south; some say—”
I love how Bronte uses the em dash to show Mrs. Graham’s rightful interruption. It also shows that he is completely oblivious to his own rude behavior and even has more to say. To avoid more questioning, Mrs. Graham leaps over to Gilbert to inquire about their private sea trip but is overhead by Rose who turns it into another awkward group event. During this trip, we finally see Eliza begin to realize that she is slowly being replaced. At that moment, my heart went out for her, and I saw her more than coquettish preacher’s daughter.
For the readers, do you feel that Gilbert could have been more considerate to Eliza during this group excursion? How do you feel about Mrs. Graham’s decision to leave her child with the party and paint by herself?
To me, it came off a little opportunistic. She didn’t say it outright, but I think she finds the group a little annoying and banal. They were not fun enough to hang out with but they watched her kid, so they were tolerable? What do you think?
Danny wrote: "Chapter seven reflection
This section begins with Mrs. Graham getting an unexpected and unwelcome visit from an inquiring party. Once again, her mysterious arrival to this small town has peaked ..."
I'm not sure Gilbert was capable of being more considerate. I think the juxtaposition of the two women was not a good result for Eliza and the fact that Gilbert was so focused on spending time with Mrs. Graham that he couldn't give Eliza the consideration. He could have taken Eliza apart and perhaps found a way to ease her into his changing feelings, but I'm not sure Gilbert could see that option at the time.
As to Mrs. Graham... I think she has come to trust Miss Millward and was taking advantage of a very little presented opportunity. She is a single mother who doesn't trust the care of her child to just anyone. I don't fault her for taking that time to herself to paint as mothers rarely get a break.
But of course there was the added benefit of getting away from people she likely finds tiresome. She has not shown herself to be not much a fan of the frivolous talk of the community and prefers more substance in her discourse. I think she does find Miss Millward a good companion, hence Mrs Graham trusted her with Arthur, but the group as a whole was too much. As someone who isn't a huge fan of parties and prefers one-on-one talks, I can hardly blame her.
Ch. 7Fergus seems sarcastic and has an undertone of mocking his friends and family. I do agree that he’s very rude but his comment “like us, that have nothing to do but to run snooking about to our neighbors house, peeping into their private corners;… when we don’t find them ready made to our hands” made me think he was implying about the rest of them. Compared to the rest he seemed to just put it on the table and I thought it was kind of funny. Even the questions he threw at Mrs. Graham were questions the rest desperately want to know but will never ask themselves.
I’m not sure if Gilbert could have been more considerate towards Eliza. I do feel for her if she felt hurt but also she could do better.
Mrs. Graham’s decision to leave her kid with the others surprised me because I thought she wouldn’t leave him out of her sight, ever. But from what I remember, Miss. Millward’s nurturing character was emphasized earlier. I do think Mrs. Graham took the opportunity to depend on someone for her to get her work done and to get away from the exhausting crew.
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Fergus seems sarcastic and has an undertone of mocking his friends and family. I do agree that he’s very rude but his comment “like us, that have nothing to do but to run snooking about to o..."
Mix, thank you for writing this response because it made me go back and read a few things again. First, he is the least rehearsed member of that party, and second, he does see the silliness of all this red tape around Mrs. Graham's past history. In addition, if I lived in a small town like that, I believe some things should be expressed. Let's think of a her situation in a modern context. What if she was doing something illegal that could attract danger to the people living there? I don't think this is the case here, but it could happen.
Going back to the initial point, when I first read Fergus's dialogue in the chapter, it reminded me of the random person at any party who says things like, "what do you do, and how much do you make?" The brashness of it all got me, simple is that. But when I adopt your perception, I do see him as the least pretentious one in the party.
In relation to Mrs. Graham's decision "to leave her kid with others" also threw me for a loop. I'm still learning her taciturn ways.
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Chapter eight reflection
This chapter, out of all the chapters thus far, exposes Gilbert’s calculated effort to win Mrs. Graham’s love and affection. However, before this infatuation began, he had made a comment in a previous chapter about being able to paint better than her, which didn’t sit well with me. Now that she is a legitimate love interest, his opinion of her work has elevated, as well as everything else about her. This kind of behavior is ingenuine and his efforts are soulless and methodological. I even wonder if his interest in Arthur is real or does he see him as a way to her. At the close of the chapter, Mrs. Graham is keenly aware of the implications of accepting a gift (book) from him and offers to give him money, causing Graham to abandon the façade of wanting a plutonic relationship. He also resorts to asking direct questions, which is more of his brother's trait.
To all the readers, were you surprised by Mrs. Graham’s response. Do you feel that she leads him on? I feel that he leads himself on and reads situations with self-bias. Because of this, is he an unreliable narrator?
Danny wrote: "Chapter eight reflection
This chapter, out of all the chapters thus far, exposes Gilbert’s calculated effort to win Mrs. Graham’s love and affection. However, before this infatuation began, he ha..."
I think Mrs. Graham behaved EXACTLY as I expected her to in the situation. So far I don't think she leads him on. She has always only enjoyed Gilbert's company to a point and will shut him down when he pushes at her boundaries. I suppose Gilbert could be an unreliable narrator, but we get some views kind of outside himself. I am really disliking Gilbert and hope he can turn things around as a character.
Ch 8I remember Gilbert’s comment regarding him being a better artist than Mrs. Graham too from chapter 7, but after rereading it, I see it as his way to express that the view he sees in front of him, of “the splendid view at our feet to the elegant white hand that held the pencil, and the graceful neck and glossy raven curls that drooped over the paper” is “ a lovelier sketch than hers” (58). It seems like he wants to say that she is lovelier than what she’s painting, I think. But I also can see him meaning the initial understanding because he’s conceited. If that is the case, I wonder if he was more ingenuine with that comment compared with his behavior in chapter 8. Does he really like her or only when she is nice to him?
I was not surprised by Mrs. Graham’s response. She is impressively firm in her ways. I don’t think she leads him on but for someone like Gilbert, it must be thrilling every time someone like her is nice to him. I don’t think Gilbert is an unreliable narrator because his biases are a big part of the story. The author manipulating this self absorbed speaker is intriguing.
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Chapter nine reflection
Gilbert is heading to the vicarage, in hopes of cutting romantic ties with Eliza, but she [Eliza] has some information of her own that cuts much deeper. Gossip has spread throughout the town, concerning Mr. Lawrence’s resemblance to Arthur, alluding to some kind of unofficial union with Mrs. Graham. Eliza delivers this message to Gilbert with a hint of malice, for she knows how easy this can crush him. After discovering this information, he becomes indignant. Most of his anger is directed towards Mr. Lawrence while the rest is camouflaged as denial.
To all the readers, why does Gilbert have so much pent-up disdain for Mr. Lawrence?
Mod
I remember Gilbert’s comment regarding him being a better artist than Mrs. Graham too from chapter 7, but after rereading it, I see it as his way to express that the view he sees in front of ..."
Yeah, I totally read that wrong, Mix. I should have looked at the quote again instead of trusting my memory. I also agree that when her views align with his own, she becomes something grander. I do think he let's her own opinions wash over his psyche from time to time, though.
Mix and Avionne, if you can, I would love to hear your thoughts on this passage from chapter 10, which made me think about the unreliable narrator thing.
In this section, she gives Gilbert a flower, and this is his response:
"[i]nstead of taking it quietly, I likewise took the hand that offered it, and looked into her face. She let me hold it for a moment, and I saw a flash of ecstatic brilliance in her eye, a glow of glad excitement on her face—I thought my hour of victory was come"
This seems like a delusion, conjured up on his end, to recreate an event to his liking. It doesn't align with her usual responses, thus, making me think that he is embellishing her reactions. Her emotional intelligence is through the roof, plus, she's sly and reserved. In essence, I don't see her getting that unraveled by a hand touch.
The concept of an unreliable narrator may not have been in a thing in Brontë's time, but she was a such a precocious child that it wouldn't surprise me if she made him one, perhaps, unknowingly.
Danny wrote: "Mix and Avionne, if you can, I would love to hear your thoughts on this passage from chapter 10, which made me think about the unreliable narrator thing."I think if I put myself in Mrs. Graham's place, I can imagine that while she is very firm in her stance that she can be no more than a friend to Gilbert and has that high emotional intelligence, that for a moment she could have had a flutter of excitement at the attention and Gilbert very well could have observed that. A hand touch would have been much more at that time than now.
That isn't to say that you are incorrect in Gilbert having a moment of delusion... I absolutely see that as an option too. He seems to have a bit of believing what he wants about things regardless of reality in other ways.
Unreliable narrator may not have been a named concept then but it doesn't mean it wasn't in use. So I don't discount your view in this.
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Jan 5th - 11th (read to chapter 5 )
Jan 12th - 18th ( read to chapter 8 )
Jan 19th - 25th ( read to chapter 14 )
Jan 26th - Feb 1st ( read to chapter 23 )
Feb 2nd - 8th ( read to chapter 30 )
Feb 9th - 15th ( read to chapter 34 )
Feb 16th - 22nd ( read to chapter 45 )
Feb 23rd - 28th ( read to the end )
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