The Debate Club discussion

I've been told countless times by Christians "you're going to hell! Repent now!" Just because I'm bisexual (or pan or omni, I'm trying to figure that out, I'm just going as bi for now). Anyway, I know not all Christians are like that, and I've met a few who are even members of the LGBT+ community. Why do some Christians say LGBTQ+ is bad, but others don't? What are the beliefs around this?

Thanks for explaining, y'all!

Personally i don't think that you're a true christian if you're gay. The bible even says "If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." - Leviticus 20:13

You have quoted the old testament, not the new.
If you are following the book of leviticus, it seems christians who eat pork, for examplem aren't true christians.

Okay, so I'm not a Christian but I've observed a lot of things around this topic. Some Christians say that the line "man should not sleep with man" (I'm pretty sure that's the line) was originally "man should not sleep with boy" in reference to pedophiles. Others are not as extremely religious and are flexible with their beliefs. I also know Christians who go out of their way to say that being queer is a sin. In general, I would say that it should be the decision of the person in question what to do, whether to embrace their being queer, whether to seek guidance from somebody, or whatever they feel like is the right thing to do.

౨ৎ Chadwick ౨ৎ wrote: "Personally i don't think that you're a true christian if you're gay. The bible even says "If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." - Lev..."

I am not Christain, but I know that Jesus once said "love thy neighbor" meaning that it doesn't matter if you're straight, gay, bi, etc. Besides, just because someone is gay doesn't mean they don't believe in god or whatever.

I'm Christian and bi, and I definitely think God loves everyone no matter your sexuality or gender. God is definitely not someone who would discriminate because of the smallest differences like that. You shouldn't worry about going to hell just because you are attracted to people of the same gender.

Ella⁸¹ wrote: "I'm Christian and bi, and I definitely think God loves everyone no matter your sexuality or gender. God is definitely not someone who would discriminate because of the smallest differences like tha..."

OMG❤ I FINALLY FOUND ONE😭 ME TOO!

CrazyChickenGirl (aka Barnette) wrote: "I've been told countless times by Christians "you're going to hell! Repent now!" Just because I'm bisexual (or pan or omni, I'm trying to figure that out, I'm just going as bi for now). Anyway, I k..."

there is a highly controversial line of the bible (quoted below) that has been interpreted in many different ways and caused debates and disagreements.

I'm nor Christian nor part of the LGBTQ+ community (but I have nothing against them), but as Chadwick had already mentioned
"If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination." - Leviticus 20:13

So, I believe you can't exactly be Christian if you're from the lgbtq+ community but you cannot control who you're attracted to so I don't think God would separate you. I know a Muslim sweetheart who is attracted to women and she basically said, "I'm not sleeping with women. I'm just attracted to them, there's a difference." There's definitely a difference between sleeping with women and being attracted to them. That's what I believe, be attracted to whoever you want, just dont let them get in your pants. No offense, though.

Oh, you're in here too, Laina? I didn't know that. Cool beans!

Liana wrote: "I'm nor Christian nor part of the LGBTQ+ community (but I have nothing against them), but as Chadwick had already mentioned
"If a man also lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them ha..."

I'd like to challenge that. What makes someone Christian? If sleeping with someone of the same gender is a sin, what makes that a bigger sin than all the others? How come people are more forgiving of sins against the ten commandments? What about being a "sinner" makes it so that you aren't a Christian?

Most religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, all the religions that have a line of prophets state that it is wrong to be in bed of the same sex. I don't believe in the "New Testament" or "Old Testaments" because if one thing is said By God, how has it changed? I'm not saying that being gay is a bigger sin, I'm saying that if you don't follow all the rules, how are you a believer?
That's like saying God is omnipotent and then saying God can't make a rock that he can't lift. In Islam, if you don't pray, that makes you a non believer because that's one of the rules.

I disagree. I personally am somewhat Christain, queer, and trans. I find that religion is more based on the lifestyle and morals than history if that makes sense. Though there are things that translate between many religions, that doesn't mean its necessarily true.

Skybird (Nickname Sky) wrote: "Oh, you're in here too, Laina? I didn't know that. Cool beans!"

I have unblocked you from the group, Sky and Rhee too.

Liana wrote: "Most religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, all the religions that have a line of prophets state that it is wrong to be in bed of the same sex. I don't believe in the "New Testament" or "Old Test..."

What are the ten commandments?

You've never stolen, disrespected your parents, lied, or been jealous?

The whole point of being Christian is that we are all sinners but have been saved by God. According to the Bible there is no perfect human aside from Jesus. If sleeping with someone of the same sex is a sin, why is that an irredeemable 'sin'? Jesus died on the cross for all of us and ALL of our sins.

I also believe that verse of the Bible has been misinterpreted.

Sai wrote: "Okay, so I'm not a Christian but I've observed a lot of things around this topic. Some Christians say that the line "man should not sleep with man" (I'm pretty sure that's the line) was originally ..."

I sort of agree with this.

Ella✨(booktrovert) wrote: "The whole point of being Christian is that we are all sinners but have been saved by God. According to the Bible there is no perfect human aside from Jesus. If sleeping with someone of the same sex..."

Yes!! This is something I wish my parents understood. Just because I'm not perfect, doesn't mean I'm going to be condemned to hell for liking men and not identifying as a girl.

Liana wrote: "Most religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, all the religions that have a line of prophets state that it is wrong to be in bed of the same sex. I don't believe in the "New Testament" or "Old Test..."

First of all, the reason many people seek out passages from the New Testament is because that is more relevant and recent to us. Many of the rules in the Old Testament are based on the cultural and historical context of that time.

Ella✨(booktrovert) wrote: "Liana wrote: "Most religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, all the religions that have a line of prophets state that it is wrong to be in bed of the same sex. I don't believe in the "New Testament..."

In the Old Testament there are many rules for servants, practices of marriage, and traditions that are no longer relevant or followed.

I never said that being gay is an irredeemable sin. I have a genuin question, where did the New Testament come from? Did God decent it or priests told Christians.

Liana wrote: "I never said that being gay is an irredeemable sin. I have a genuin question, where did the New Testament come from? Did God decent it or priests told Christians."

From what I know, I think Jesus's disciples wrote some of it (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) and shared the story with other people.

The apostles also wrote quite a lot of the books, most of them being letters to Christian communities.

Ella✨(booktrovert) wrote: "You've never stolen, disrespected your parents, lied, or been jealous?"

In my sixteen years of life, I haven't been jealous or have stolen since I come from a privileged background but I do disrespect my parents more of the not. The Ten Commandments are "You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make idols. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Honor your father and your mother. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal."

Liana wrote: "I never said that being gay is an irredeemable sin. I have a genuin question, where did the New Testament come from? Did God decent it or priests told Christians."

Also, you didn't say that being gay was an irredeemable sin. I personally don't believe it is a sin, but if it is what makes it any worse than breaking the Ten Commandments, which are followed and relevant to all Christians everywhere and are very directly and clearly commanded by God?

(I thought this was a debate and we had to pick a side. I do believe u r a Christian even if u r gay)

Liana wrote: "(I thought this was a debate and we had to pick a side. I do believe u r a Christian even if u r gay)"

Oh I'm sorry that wasn't clear to me. I though because you said: "So, I believe you can't exactly be Christian if you're from the lgbtq+ community" and continued to debate me, that you were on the opposite side.

Ella✨(booktrovert) wrote: "The whole point of being Christian is that we are all sinners but have been saved by God. According to the Bible there is no perfect human aside from Jesus. If sleeping with someone of the same sex..."

If we have been saved by God, who says we are going to hell?

Liana wrote: "Ella✨(booktrovert) wrote: "The whole point of being Christian is that we are all sinners but have been saved by God. According to the Bible there is no perfect human aside from Jesus. If sleeping w..."

EXACTLY.

Liana wrote: "Ella✨(booktrovert) wrote: "You've never stolen, disrespected your parents, lied, or been jealous?"

In my sixteen years of life, I haven't been jealous or have stolen since I come from a privileged..."

oh really?

as a queer christian, i think i (and the multiple others just in this chat) would be proof that you could be both. i have a (reasonably) healthy relationship with god, and i haven't been zapped by lightning yet.

now, I'm not going to get into the "infamous (mis)interpretation" of leviticus 20:13, because i am simply too lazy to retype what other people have already said. (see: MidnightButterfly ~ 2025 is upon us! , Sai, and Ella✨(booktrovert) )

but, i do know that whatever you think leviticus 20:13 says, in mathew 22, jesus says this: "and the second is like it: 'you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

i find it interesting how many (but not all i have met many lovely conservatives) conservative christians 'forget' about this verse when they are going after the LGBTQ+ community

l i z [save the sharks❗] ˖𓍢ִִ໋🌊🦈˚˖𓍢ִ✧˚. wrote: "as a queer christian, i think i (and the multiple others just in this chat) would be proof that you could be both. i have a (reasonably) healthy relationship with god, and i haven't been zapped by ..."

OMG this is so relieving. I've been the only queer Christian I know for my entire life...

@ella omg same like we exist too 😭

l i z [save the sharks❗] ˖𓍢ִִ໋🌊🦈˚˖𓍢ִ✧˚. wrote: "@ella omg same like we exist too 😭"
❤‍🔥

ok, @Chadwick, as the person who suggested this topic and first shared your opinion, I'd like to hear YOUR side of the argument.

😑

Yeah, Christians and people of other religions can be gay

not to mention the bible has many interpretations and its hard to tell what it really says

NEW TESTAMENT: Clobber Passages 4 and 5
1 Timothy 1:9-10

"We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"
1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
I'm going to group these verses together because the word "homsexuality" in 1 Timothy and the phrase "men who have sex with men" in 1 Corinthians are actually the same Greek word, "arsenokoitais."

Every time a new team translates the Bible into English, they come away with different interpretations of certain words and phrases. In various Bibles over the years, "arsenokoitais" has been translated "effeminate," "sisies," "child molesters," "abusers of themselves with men," "male prostitutes," "people with infamous habits," and "Sodomites." These days, it's translated as "homosexuals."

That's one of the kookiest things about the Bible. It's a collection of stories and letters and primary history texts and oral histories that were written down long after they began, and all of those things are thousands of years old. Which texts belonged in the Bible was a question that was still being debated a century and a half after Jesus died. A thousand-plus years is a whole lot of time for interference between God's lips and human ears, especially when the rich white guys who were deciding which books to put into the Bible were also the rich white guys who were strangling William Tyndale at the stake for suggesting the Bible should be translated into English for the common man to read. And once the Catholic church allowed the Bible to be translated into English and gave non-priests permission to read it -- which is to say, once the doctrines of the church had already taken hold in people's minds for 1,500 years -- scholars still couldn't agree on a standard translation from Greek/Hebrew to English.

I cannot overemphasize this: The men who decided which texts made it into the Bible (and there were thousands to choose from) did not want regular people to be able to read the Bible. They had an agenda, and it was to consolidate and maintain their political and cultural power.

Today "arsenokoitais" means "homosexual." At one time, it meant "masturbators." Who knows how it will be translated in the future?

(these are from a source)

(sourcES)

plural

i just thought they made great points and uhhhh yea

God loves everyone whether they like the same sex or not. I'm a Christian but I'm not queer but I still believe it's not a sin if you are. It doesn't matter if you sleep with the same sex because in the end, God still loves you no matter what. This is the real world and things change from the old in days so the Old or new Testament is not up to date.

Oh dang, there is no argument that's going to top this.

Y'all I've had this argument almost every night for almost a week straight with an invisible opponent when I lay awake in my bed at midnight and randomly in the shower.

Sol, possibly wrote: "NEW TESTAMENT: Clobber Passages 4 and 5
1 Timothy 1:9-10

"We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious..."

That's impressive. Thank you for sharing this and typing it out! Yeah, I've always wondered if stuff in the bible might have been translated VERY wrong and people aren't seeing what the original version intended to say. But idk. Thanks!

Ella✨(booktrovert) wrote: "Y'all I've had this argument almost every night for almost a week straight with an invisible opponent when I lay awake in my bed at midnight and randomly in the shower."

Lol yeah... we need some more people here to debate with because we seem to agree on most things here or have mostly similar views.