Literary Fiction by People of Color discussion

If anyone would like to lead the Black History Month discussion for James Baldwin’s, If Beale Street Could Talk, please let me know. James Baldwin has given America a moving story of love in the face of injustice. You can respond here or dm me directly.

I'll be reading this (have it already checked up from my library) but I cannot commit to leading a discussion, sorry. I hope others are interested in reading this.

Hi CJ! Cool to know we'll be in good company.

I'm definitely going to join; but not before I wade through another thousand pages' worth of books. It will also be, at long last, my first Baldwin, so I don't know that I'm the best candidate to lead the discussion. But I'll do my best to engage fully.
Meanwhile, a different group is going to read If He Hollers Let Him Go, so I'll get my fix of Black American writers.

I plan on reading this with you all. I just joined the group, and this is one of the reasons why. It's been on my "to read" list for a while and I'm looking forward to reading it with a group.

I remember seeing the movie version of six years ago...but have little recall of it. But I'm sure I'll get that deja vu feeling when I read it.

I’ve had it on hold with my library for at least a week, but I might have to settle for the audiobook :( Definitely looking forward to reading it.

i'm so excited seeing the comments already there and looking forward!! i've been a changed woman since i read giovanni's room so i bought the book a few months back when i was on a solo trip in europe and i'm excited to share my thoughts!! :D

How do you view polls here, say for a March book nomination?

Hilario wrote: "How do you view polls here, say for a March book nomination?"

If you scroll up the top of this thread and then look over on the right side of the page, there'll be links to different group activities, and one will be polls.

CJ wrote: "Hilario wrote: "How do you view polls here, say for a March book nomination?"

If you scroll up the top of this thread and then look over on the right side of the page, there'll be links to differe..."

Thanks, CJ!

maya ☆ wrote: "i'm so excited seeing the comments already there and looking forward!! i've been a changed woman since i read giovanni's room so i bought the book a few months back when i was on a solo trip in eur..."

So am I, Maya. Surprisingly (& embarrassingly) I’ve never read this Baldwin and he’s my favorite writer. I’m starting today.

Unfortunately, I couldn't read If Beale Street Could Talk at the same time as you, guys, but I'll start reading it today, insha'Allah, after I finish Ask the Dust.

Ok, so a little unconventional, but this book has no chapters or parts to section off for the book discussion. I think this may be a first. For those that have started the book or finished it, any suggestions on where might be a good place to have the breaks? Otherwise, we can discuss the first half of the book by the 12th or so and open up the entire book on the 13th? Thoughts?

What book(s) by James Baldwin have you read?

What’s your favorite fiction &/or non-fiction titles?

What’s your favorite quote(s)?

Did you see the movie adaptation?

“Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced,” Baldwin wrote in a 1962 essay for The New York Times.

@ColumbusReads

I read this one last September with another book club I am in and we just broke it up with the two sections that are in the book. It just seemed easier that way.

Part 1: Troubled About My Soul
Part 2: Zion

In recent years I’ve read 5 of Baldwin’s books. They were all 5-star reads for me.

Amala's wrote: "@ColumbusReads

I read this one last September with another book club I am in and we just broke it up with the two sections that are in the book. It just seemed easier that way.

Part 1: Troubled ..."

Thanks so much, Amala. The first time I skimmed through the book I didn’t even notice there were two parts. The Zion section comes in at the last 4th of the book.

Happy Black History Month!

Here’s the schedule for this month and it’s pretty simple:

Today thru 2/3 - Discuss anything you like about Baldwin (minus discussing the book).
2/4 thru 2/15 Part 1 Troubled About My Soul
2/16 include Zion / entire book

Happy reading!

Incredibly, given my interest in Afro-American literature, Baldwin is still new ground for me. I might mention a reverential fear of his opus, except I regularly encourage people to overcome any such thing. I do believe he'll shot right up the top of my favourite authors.

“You think your pain and your heartbreak are unprecedented in the history of the world, but then you read.”
― James Baldwin

Baldwin wiki:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James...

I'm planning on starting this book! :)

I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain. -Baldwin

“Everybody’s journey is individual. If you fall in love with a boy, you fall in love with a boy. The fact that many Americans consider it a disease says more about them than it does about homosexuality.”

-Conversations with Baldwin

The book discussion for Part 1: Troubled About My Soul begins today.

Surprise! I hadn’t realized I had read this book before until I reached the early section where Tish & The Hunts go to church. I recall unfairly comparing it to Baldwin’s earlier novels.

Q. What’s your initial thoughts of Fonny & Tish? Some have said that Tish appears too mature for her age. On the contrary, Fonny is considered by many to be immature. Do you agree?

A. How does the city (NYC) play a role in the book or does it? Could this have been any major US city?

“Anyone who has ever struggled with poverty knows how extremely expensive it is to be poor.”
from No One Knows My Name -Baldwin

I wasn’t alive in the 70’s, but Tish comes across as 19 on the pages to me. I’m still in the beginning part of the book, but as an 18 year old, I feel like an older person would be more pessimistic about their relationship. I don’t see her being *too* mature, but I can understand how you can think she’s more mature. I can only imagine the expectations place on black girl’s when the book was written, and everything she would have seen and heard, on top of her being pregnant and her baby’s father being in the pen.



Baldwin was born in Harlem so he probably has the most familiarity with that setting. In terms of being interchangeable with other major U.S. cities, I was actually thinking less about how it’s New York, but more the fact that it’s not the south. Reading the book I thought it would be interesting to see how it contrasts with what I see in the south now. With the church scene, it actually does not seem that different and it’s kind of relatable (though embarrassingly, I never realized those stairs were called fire escapes until reading this).

I would not characterize Trish as being more mature in aspect of her life, but I do not want to confuse maturity with naivety.
Not that I have a lot of reference but i would say Trish was "typical" of any female in the early 70's and times before that. Taught and reared in Male centered households, raised to find a mate and mate to procreate, cook clean and tend house. Fonny, however wanted her to have independence of him, while not being independent of him as the man. Fonny gave Tish more liberation in terms of her role, than he had for his sisters, as evidence when he constantly was concerned with them finding a mate to settle down.
As far as Fonny's maturity, i would say he had lots of life and street skills, that made him, to me, seem more mature. Emotionally he was on target if not slightly below for a 20/21 year old.

To be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a state of rage almost all of the time. -Baldwin

ColumbusReads wrote: "To be a Negro in this country and to be relatively conscious is to be in a state of rage almost all of the time. -Baldwin"

This resonates with If He Hollers Let Him Go as well.

I was struck by Tish's description of her first experience in a sanctified church with Fonny. She describes coming to know that she was not loved there. I was wondering how she arrived at that conclusion so quickly. Talks about the piano player as being "a long dark evil-looking brother with hand made for strangling", and that walking to visit Fonny in the Tombs, "was just like walking into church". I've never been to a sanctified church but here I sensed that maybe Baldwin was projecting more of his own well documented struggles with his religious background than what would be a typical reaction to a one off visit by Tish.

“I love America more than any other country in the world, and, exactly for this reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually.” -Baldwin, Notes Of A Native Son

Fifty years after the books publication and very little has changed in terms of disaffected and disillusioned youth. Still as Tish explains, "...death was waiting to overtake children of our age..the cause was simple..the kids were told they weren't shit and everything around them proved it...)"

William wrote: "Fifty years after the books publication and very little has changed in terms of disaffected and disillusioned youth. Still as Tish explains, "...death was waiting to overtake children of our age..t..."

Yes, from Tish, what a statement.

“Freedom is not something that anybody can be given. Freedom is something people take, and people are as free as they want to be” -Baldwin, Nobody Knows My Name

ColumbusReads wrote: "Q. What’s your initial thoughts of Fonny & Tish? Some have said that Tish appears too mature for her age. On the contrary, Fonny is considered by many to be immature. Do you agree?"

i'm slowly finding a fondness in me for the both of these - they both seem pretty level-headed and do come across their written ages, like people i'd hang out with if i were born in the 70s in harlem. i personally don't see the criticisms for either of these characters so far

ENTIRE BOOK OPEN

It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. -Baldwin

Any thoughts on the female characters in this book? Particularly Tish, Sharon & Ernestine. How are they handled by the author and also in relation to the male characters as well as Baldwin’s other novels?

What happens to Fonny and Tish now? Do you feel hopeful for them?

Beale Street fact:

James Baldwin called If Beale Street Could Talk his "strangest novel" and a parable about the bondage of Black men. He wrote it to be a reminder that social justice was still an ongoing struggle.

More Beale Street facts:

If Beale Street Could Talk was Baldwin's fifth novel, published in 1974. It was a response to the Moynihan Report and other studies that highlighted the vulnerability of African-American families.
Baldwin intended the novel to show how isolated Black people were, but also how they recognized their need for each other. He wanted to highlight the bonds that held Black people together.
The novel was initially met with negative reviews and was considered by some to be too sentimental and predictable.

ColumbusReads wrote: "More Beale Street facts:

If Beale Street Could Talk was Baldwin's fifth novel, published in 1974. It was a response to the Moynihan Report and other studies that highlighted the vulnerability of A..."

Interesting. Anyone recall the famous or infamous Moynihan Report?

i really appreciated the kind side characters in this book. Levy, the landlord who wants to sell Tish & Fonny the loft. The restaurant staff, Pedrocito & Luisito. The Italian shopkeeper lady, Jaime, Sharon’s taxi driver. they were a nice reminder that there’s still kindness even in the darkest of places

ColumbusReads wrote: "It is certain, in any case, that ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have. -Baldwin"

profound, and currently relative!

ColumbusReads wrote: "Any thoughts on the female characters in this book? Particularly Tish, Sharon & Ernestine. How are they handled by the author and also in relation to the male characters as well as Baldwin’s other ..."

Great questions - thanks for posing. This is a little late but I felt that these were three powerful women in their own way. Sharon for her determined, maternal strength - Ernestine for her fiery, willful force of will, and Tish for her fortitude and courage to love with her whole self despite the stacked odds.

I won't lie, with the exception of Fonny, the men seem a little stunted with an inability to express themselves. The parts with Daniel were incredibly moving and sad.

As for my hope for Fonny and Tish, the last page of the novel was breathtaking. Without giving away too much, I am hopeful because of the themes of death and life -- the extinguishing of a flame and the igniting of another. I think they will have their happy ending. What do you think?

@ Adriana - I too do agree that I appreciated the little acts of kindness done which reminds us that there is always light.