Reading the 20th Century discussion

This is the thread for our buddy read of The Odessa File in July 2025.

Those of us who read Forsyth's The Day of the Jackal enjoyed it so much that we're doing another Forsyth in honour of his recent death.

Can you forgive the past?

It's 1963 and a young German reporter has been assigned the suicide of a holocaust survivor. The news story seems straighforward, this is a tragic insight into one man's suffering. But a long hidden secret is discovered in the pages of the dead man's diary.

What follows is life-and-death hunt for a notorious former concentration camp-commander, a man responsible for the deaths of thousands, a man as yet unpunished.

We'll 'officially' start in July but this thread is open now for comments or general chat.

Really looking forward to a second foray into FF's work with you lovely and perceptive people

I'd like to join in as well if I may.
I read this many, many years ago but have forgotten. I also have The Fourth Protocol hopefully arriving soon.

Cphe wrote: "I'd like to join in as well if I may."

Of course, Cphe - everyone is welcome.

Look forward to discussing it with you Cphe

Forstyth clearly having a moment, there was a segment about him on BBC Radio 4 on Friday:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00...

It looks like this should be available to me in about 2 weeks.

I read it years ago. At work we had a little lending library and it was in it. So I no longer have the book.

I'm going to start this tonight


I've abandoned the last couple of books I started and so feel I am ready for a reliably competent, narrative driven yarn, which is what I'm expecting from this one

Looking forward to comparing notes as and when

I need to finish the Zola I'm currently reading then will make a start on this so won't be too far behind you. Ditto a fast-paced yarn.

Hurrah

I made a brief start last night - interesting to see this set against the Kennedy assassination. That's something I'd like to read more about.

I read about 10 pages and then fell asleep.


Yes, interesting to read how car drivers immediately pulled off the road to process the news of the assassination

This is fascinating on what (west) Germans knew about the Holocaust in 1962 - both Miller and the police inspector think they know but then are horrified reading the diary.

I've been pulled up before reading 1960s books or books set then which, from my perspective, seem so much later than the war so it's always salutary to remember that it was still so close.

In that sense this book is complementary to Sebald, even though the genre is quite different. I can see I'm going to race through this!

Delighted that you are invested and likely to race through it


Freddie does it again?

Nigeyb wrote: "Freddie does it again?"

I think so! Though have to confess I couldn't face the diary last night - inhumanity never gets old, does it, or easier to read?

It's interesting that I DNF and 1-starred a book a week ago because it has the premise that in 1997 - 1997! - an American young woman and a German young man fell in love at Harvard (natch!) but couldn't be together because their grandfathers fought on opposite sides of WW2. It just felt like such a crude and American misunderstanding of post-war Germany (not all Americans, obvs): the book was The Scrapbook, my review is here if anyone is interested in how to get these issues so wrong:

www.goodreads.com/review/show/7670176880

With our recent discussions of Sebald too, there's been a bit of an unconscious theme in my recent reading.

Interesting RC - great review



I've just met the evil Nazis in Cairo

I was interested to discover how much of this was based on fact and, the short answer is, a lot. At least according to my AI assistant.

I copied the answer and will post it once everyone has read the book as it could potentially be a tad spoilerific

For now I'll just post the concluding para....

Frederick Forsyth is renowned for his meticulous research and for creating a strong "illusion of reality" in his thrillers. The Odessa File is a perfect example of this. While the central plot and the protagonist's journey are fictional, the novel is built on a foundation of real historical events, people, and concerns of the time, making it a compelling and believable read.

I'm just a step ahead of you with Marx on the park bench.

Really interesting about the potential political realignment after JFK's death with regard to Israel, and also the role of Egypt.

I'm sure I've read something before about (view spoiler)[Nazi support groups (probably not the right term!) that smuggled them out of Germany and gave them new identities and money (hide spoiler)] but can't think what it was - maybe something by Philippe Sands?

In any case, this is another gripping read from FF - he makes it all sound plausible so far.

Philippe Sands wrote The Ratline: Love, Lies, and Justice on the Trail of a Nazi Fugitive which covers the subject. I recommend it

I am only at the end of the diary. I will add remarks as I catch up.

That's a very interesting discussion with Miller's newspaper boss about what people want to read vs. what they ought to read as he turns down the story: that it's precisely because it was their Jewish friends, neighbours, bosses and employees who they allowed to be 'disappeared' that they don't want to know more details of what happened to them.

p.92

Very interesting about the state attorney generals across West Germany having divided up areas of responsibility for the investigation of Nazi war crimes across the occupied territories.

Sam wrote: "I am only at the end of the diary. I will add remarks as I catch up."

Looking forward to your thoughts, Sam.

One of mine is how much I might have missed out on in dismissing 'airport thrillers' - this, The Godfather and Day of the Jackal have all been fantastic reads with interesting discussions here.

This may not have an elegant prose style but FF was a BBC journalist, amongst other jobs, and gets the job done. I love the insight it gives us into the 1970s view of history.

Thanks RC


I’m still in the diary section

I fell asleep again

Great point about airport best sellers - they can be really interesting and enjoyable

I've finished the diary


Grim reading

Nigeyb wrote: "I've finished the diary


Grim reading"

It is - I was glad to move along. I wonder to what extent details of the camps etc. were generally known in the 1960s? In the book there's quite some ambivalence.

While this doesn't have the simple narrative drive of Jackal, I like the exposition of contemporary politics - for example, it had never occurred to me before that so many Nazi war crimes were committed in what was to become behind the Iron Curtain and Russian refusals to co-operate with the another allies allowed war criminals to slip through and escape. This is outside of the big international trials at Nuremberg.

Remember this?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/199...

I do

Roman Clodia wrote: "Nigeyb wrote: "I've finished the diary


Grim reading"

It is - I was glad to move along. I wonder to what extent details of the camps etc. were generally known in the 1960s? In the book there's qu..."

My impression was that it was known about but not widely addressed? Interest surged in Britain after the TV broadcast of the documentary series The World at War in 1973 which featured, among other things, fairly graphic footage of the bodies of people killed in the camps. I wonder if that gave a boost to sales of Forsyth's novel? Also get novels like Marathon Man and The Boys from Brazil very loosely based on the work of Simon Wiesenthal, and subsequent film versions. All hugely successful. So clearly a boom period. But critics like George Steiner had been spreading information on the Holocaust in academic/academic-adjacent circles for some time by then. Language & Silence: Essays on Language, Literature, and the Inhuman came out in 1967 and was very popular for a book of its kind.

The first English-language film about Anne Frank came out in the late 1950s although the studio apparently cut a final scene showing her in the camps as it was thought too harrowing. Leon Uris's Exodus was a massive bestseller in the early sixties and the film with Paul Newman similarly successful and that, I believe, references the Holocaust.

Coincidentally, Simon Wiesenthal has just been mentioned.

Given that the main character is a journalist who is finding that the papers don't want his story and that the various legal departments either don't have the resources or are strangled by regulations that preclude them giving information to a civilian, I wondered if this reflects FF's own desire to tell a story that people didn't want to have to hear?

Gosh, I didn't know Rommel turned against Hitler and was forced to commit suicide.

I've just started - as usual spoilers don't bother me - and wondering why he chose to open with British intelligence and Israel, followed by Kennedy's death. Is he suggesting that the events of the book represent elements within a new world order? Or is it merely a device to highlight the likely existence of far-reaching conspiracies?

And like Nigey I'm interested in the line being drawn here between fact and fiction - the documentary style is quite misleading in terms of how it emphasizes authenticity. I do quite like it in other ways, terse and to the point but just enough minor details - like the mother's lack of phone - to make the main character credible. Although does make it clear why centring technology can date something very quickly - teleprinters for example!

I found a couple of short pieces including this one that suggest that the idea of ODESSA itself was complete fiction picked up by Forsyth after reading a Sunday Times feature:

https://fivebooks.com/best-books/guy-...

Nigeyb wrote: "Delighted that you are invested and likely to race through it Freddie does it again?"

And possibly again? He's collaborating with another writer on a sequel The Revenge of Odessa due out later this year.

Roman Clodia wrote: "That's a very interesting discussion with Miller's newspaper boss about what people want to read vs. what they ought to read as he turns down the story: that it's precisely because it was their Jew..."

I thought that he was signposting this early on, when the driver who stops to talk to him about Kennedy, suggests that the Americans are unfathomable because so violent, unlike the Germans. Seemed very jarring in light of the country's then recent history and highlighted a potential culture of denial/reinvention. And that fits with the Allied programme for reconstructing West Germany post-WW2, and the decision to keep a number of key former Nazi party figures/officials in place to allow continuity. I remember reading about it in relation to the Iraq War where the policy was precisely the opposite i.e. to purge former officials, some war reporters/historians felt that this was a mistake, making it that much harder to restore a semblance of order in Iraq.

I think Alwynne is right about potentisl new world oder, linked cause behind world events, the possibility a shadow group's agenda is being operated by an unidentified "they." I think that thought was prevalent when the book was released and Forsyth is taking advantage. But the Kennedy link also really grabbed my attention even at present as a reader. I can imagine it was even more effective in that role in the 1970's, so that might also have been the author's putpose.

The introduction before the trackdown is actually to begin, is 20% of the novel. I was drained after it and I am not sure I would have continued were I reading this back in the day. Of course I, like many others, read Day of the Jackal and the author had built up a lot of trust so I may have not noticed the long intro. I am not as much a fan of this genre of novel as I am with films of this type, but Forsyth kept me glued with Day of the Jackal. This is slower and more po.itical so far. It will be interesting how it turns out.

Sam wrote: "I think Alwynne is right about potentisl new world oder, linked cause behind world events, the possibility a shadow group's agenda is being operated by an unidentified "they." I think that thought ..."

Thanks for that Sam, very helpful. I'm trying to work out Forsyth's political stance, he has a reputation now for being fairly conservative, pro-Brexit etc But not sure where he positioned himself in the seventies.

I'm starting tonight - had a couple of books to finish off first.

Cphe wrote: "I'm starting tonight - had a couple of books to finish off first."

Great!

Roman Clodia wrote: "I'm just a step ahead of you with Marx on the park bench.

Really interesting about the potential political realignment after JFK's death with regard to Israel, and also the role of Egypt.

I'm s..."

I'm just up to the Cairo section which references the post-WW2 German colony. It's disconcertingly timely as I assume (view spoiler)[that the Israeli spy who's going to be tortured later is part of Operation Damocles? I keep coming across references to this in relation to Israel's war with Iran. It's cited as an early example of Mossad's successes in preventing the development of nuclear arms in other territories. The first stirrings of the "anticipatory self-defence" policy that foreshadows the actions of the current Israeli administration in regard to bombing Iran. Talking of foreshadowing, it's a bit crudely done at times, the 'gassed man' a prime example! (hide spoiler)] I realise too that I'm not desperately suited to Forsyth's approach as I have to keep stopping and checking his facts! Also my sense is that his implied reader was male as well as Western, likely white etc Despite all that I'm weirdly fascinated.

Glad this is working out - to varying degrees - for everyone


From what I have read the not-wanting-to-talk-about-it approach typified by Miller's mother was very common in the decades after the war for those that were around as the holocaust was ongoing.

It was what, to an extent the likes of Can, Amon Duul, Neu etc and of course Baader Meinhoff/RAF were reacting to in the 1970s

Great to have you aboard Alwynne and Cphe

Nigeyb wrote: "Glad this is working out - to varying degrees - for everyone


From what I have read the not-wanting-to-talk-about-it approach typified by Miller's mother was very common in the decades after the w..."

That makes sense Nigey, although I'm kicking myself for not thinking of the connection to things like Krautrock, particularly as I'm a huge fan of Can - discovered them after reading David Stubbs's Future Days: Krautrock and the Building of Modern Germany which I highly recommend.

I was trying to work out timelines for various things. I know that Holocaust studies are a mandatory element of the German curriculum but not sure when that first happened. Know it was in place by the 1970s.

Sam wrote: "This is slower and more political so far."

That's my impression too - it doesn't have the same simple drive of Jackal - and that's not a criticism. It feels like FF taking on a more complicated, broader story even though there is still the airport thriller structure. I think it feels like a novel written by a journalist, if that makes sense.

Alwynne wrote: "Sam wrote: "I'm trying to work out Forsyth's political stance, he has a reputation now for being fairly conservative, pro-Brexit etc But not sure where he positioned himself in the seventies"

I've been wondering the same thing and, so far, this seems fairly neutral to me. Though I have to admit to only having a light hold on politics at this period.

Alwynne wrote: "I'm just up to the Cairo section which references the post-WW2 German colony. It's disconcertingly timely"

Inevitably, I felt the same. But the horrors of the Nazi/Egyptian plan and the Israeli response in 'persuading' scientists not to work on the weaponry, rather than launching military strikes seems a more sympathetic representation of Mossad. At this point, Israel seems to be shown by FF as a fragile new state under threats of annihilation from a continuation of genocidal ideology.

Alwynne wrote: "I realise too that I'm not desperately suited to Forsyth's approach as I have to keep stopping and checking his facts! Also my sense is that his implied reader was male as well as Western, likely white etc "

I'm enjoying having to Google as I read - but that obviously wouldn't have been possible when this was first published. Would the original audience have been less able to separate facts from fiction - or is that just patronizing on my part?

Totally agree about the assumptions of readership - Miller's girlfriend! Jackal was the same with women as a bit of sexual entertainment on the side.

I'm fascinated by the who knew what about the Holocaust and when issue. Miller and the police inspector say they learnt about it in school yet are horrified by the diary which is relatively mild in terms of the literature. Does the presence of the diary imply that FF thought British readers needed to be told about it too in the 1970s? That was my take.

I don't recall learning about the Holocaust during history classes at school even though we did Hitler and WW2, though do recall the creation of the state of Israel.

My first exposure was an extra-curricular school showing of a mini-series with a very young Meryl Streep as a German who married into a Jewish family. It was dated when we saw it in the mid-late 1990s, I must have been about 16 and I remember how shocked my best friend and I were. I'd read Anne Frank before that but don't think I comprehended till then the scale, systematic and industrialized approach to wholesale genocide.

Miller’s personal life is a complete 70s cliche….


…fast car and large breasted stripper girlfriend (who only wants to get married and have babies)!

Must have worked well in the film adaptation 🙄

Haha, I'd forgotten the car!

It's interesting that so many people ask Miller why he's so interested in tracking down Roschmann - as if justice isn't a strong enough reason. This is two years after the Eichmann trial.

(view spoiler)[Is Miller going to turn out to be Jewish? Either that or his father was a prominent Nazi is my guess so that there's a personal motive (hide spoiler)].