Beyond Reality discussion

We’ve talked about fluff/brain candy books before. What about the opposite? Some books are dark, disturbing, intense. “Enjoy” might not be the right word, but do you appreciate such reads? What are your favorites?

This is not one of my favorite subgenres, but I can appreciate that some grimdark books are well-plotted and well-written. Probably the best example I can cite is The Prince of Nothing trilogy by R. Scott Bakker (The Darkness That Comes Before, The Warrior Prophet, & The Thousandfold Thought). Complex but unrelentingly bleak with mostly unlikable characters. I own the series that follows this one (The Aspcet-Emperor) but haven’t yet brought myself to read it.

I'm a back and forth person on this subject.

I'm not sure how much grimdark I have read as opposed to dark fantasy.

If its well written, the plot works, the characters make sense, then I can enjoy grimdark. I really enjoyed The Witcher books, even though the felt so brutal. I mean, there are periods in Ciri's journey that will haunt me for a long time. And yet it was barely touched on. And that somehow makes it even worse.

But in some ways this harshness can feel more realistic and less fantasy amusement park.

With that said, I am not a fan of the brutal for the sake of being brutal.
I mean that's no better than a villain being evil because they are evil. :)

I like dark, disturbing, intense reads.

The Broken Empire series by Mark Lawrence & probably most of his other series too, but this one was the most disturbing.
Raven's Shadow series by Anthony Ryan
The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman
The Warhammer 40,000 book series

The Coldfire trilogy is also a favorite of mine! I didn't love the middle book but ooh Gerald Tarrant is my favorite antihero character ever.

The one that immediately comes to mind for me is Perdido Street Station by China Miéville. It is dark, disturbing, and incredibly original. Also contains the scariest monsters I've ever encountered, the slake-moths are terrifying.

No one has brought it up
Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steve Erickson.
It is good. Dark, dense. Books are long
Took me several years to finish.

I thought this list from the Grimdark Alliance was interesting.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
There are 101 books on the list of which I have read 18 of them.
My favorite is The Song of Ice and Fire series starting with A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin. (Three books on this list) I’m not sure that I would call this Grimdark, but I can see why it is on the list.
The First Law series starts with The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie (Four books on this list) It’s Grimdark and I think the series embodies the genre.
The Chronicles of the Black Company series starts with The Black Company by Glen Cook (Three books on this list) Classic Grimdark.
The Broken Earth series starts with The Fifth Season by N.K. Jemisin (Three books on this list) This series balances on a line between Science Fiction and Fantasy. I’m not sure it should be on the list, but it’s great.
The Elric of Saga starts with Elric of Melniboné by Michael Moorcock (Two books on this list) Grimdark before that term existed.
The Book of the New Sun series starts with The Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe (One Book on this list) Great series with the perfect anti-hero.
The Shattered Sea series starts with Half the World by Joe Abercrombie (Two books on this list) It’s kind of Abercrombie lite.
There are a lot of other novels on this list that I have on my to be read list. A list to check out.

Interesting - I wouldn't consider the Broken Earth trilogy to be grimdark at all.

Interesting list. I really, really have to get to reading those Malazan books, they've been on my TBR for at least a decade, if not longer. Also might need to check out The Black Company and Michael Moordock and Abercrombie, all stuff that has been sitting on the peripheries of my attention.

N.K. Jemisin I didn't love and also not sure on the whole grimdark designation.

Blood Song by Anthony Ryan is a great series, didn't really think of it as grimdark, but....

Gary wrote: "I thought this list from the Grimdark Alliance was interesting.
https://www.goodreads.com/list/show/1...
There are 101 books on the list of which I have ..."

Interesting list—lots of books & authors with whom I’m not familiar. The Malazan books by both Steven Erikson & Ian C. Esslemont made the list, I see.

I actually started The Blade Itself by Joe Abercrombie last night. I'll be working through this in September as part of a Buddy Read... I started by reading the intro and the first three chapters, and then listened to the same sections on audiobook. I'm going to stick to reading this one on the Kindle so I can keep notes for discussion.

Interestingly, I did find a source that stated multiple readers didn't think The Blade Itself was grimdark. So, I went on to read several other blogs trying to define grimdark and separate it from dark fantasy. I also saw a blog from Mark Lawrence where voters scored books on a grimdark spectrum: 0-5.

https://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/...

Good blog post. I voted on mine. Apparently I am one of those who have specific criteria, though I don't know what it is. But I think it is a special blend of bleakness and moral greyness that gives me more grimdark.

It is not violence alone, no matter how violent, like GoT, not sure I really think that is very grimdark? Maybe too many main characters with too many morals.

Prince of Thorns is my ultimate, most grimdark book so far, but I've not read most of the books on the list.

Forrest wrote: "So, I went on to read several other blogs trying to define grimdark and separate it from dark fantasy. ..."

Did you find any good definitions? I think most of it is dark fantasy really.