Georgette Heyer Fans discussion

Here you can write spoilers about The Reluctant Widow freely.

The thread without spoilers is here.

The first thing I did this time, was to look at the date it was published 1946 - being German I was rather stunned, that all the energy is against the French, of course fitting for regency - Here in South West Germany it was and is also the French - similar jokes, similar history back to the Napoleonic wars

One of my favorites, for many reasons. The hero is my idea of an ideal man, quietly competent, understated humor, gentle and takes good care of his family. What's not to love?

Jackie wrote: "One of my favorites, for many reasons. The hero is my idea of an ideal man, quietly competent, understated humor, gentle and takes good care of his family. What's not to love?"

Yes Edward is my kind of guy but I think what makes this one memorable to me is her impressive portrayal of the villain Francis Cheviot.

Francis is unique, I think, such a completely drawn character and so ultimately sinister.

It's been so long since I first read the book, but I suspect I was taken in by the initial portrait of a delicate dandy. Not on re-reads, however! And he isn't exactly unlikable, while you really can't warm to him.

I love the humor so much, coming to mind are the two brothers enjoying flying the kite (the elder says: too bad we weren't allowed to play with it when we were young and could have enjoyed it) and Ned ever so gently teasing Elinor using Becky ("a gentleman never contradicts a lady").

I fell in love with Ned every time I read it.

I think Nicky and Bouncer are the stars of this book although I do like Elinor and Ned. Really they are all likeable characters except for the villains. Really enjoy this book and I’m sure I’ll enjoy reading it again.

Carlyon's brother John warns him a couple of time about having the widow left on his hands, which he waves off. However, Georgiana's mind quickly jumps to another appendage after a short visit. Sort of a subtle alllusion GH used in other places.

I didn't find this as humorous as her other books! The mystery was a bit dragged out. Maybe I'm dim but did Francis get away with everything in the end? I couldn't quite figure that out.
It'll never be a favourite with me.

Teresa wrote: "Maybe I'm dim but did Francis get away with everything in the end?"
He's does! Sort of -
I find it very interesting that there is always a natural assumption that one must protect the family from scandal at all costs - even if the cost is national security! So nobody thinks for a minute that they're going to admit to the government that Francis's dad and friends have been stealing war secrets or that Francis has been murdering people and assaulting women to get those secrets back. No, Francis will just put the secrets back where they can be found and we'll all pretend it never happened!

But I do like Francis - he's such a fantastic villain that I quite like when he turns out to be our villain!

Nick wrote: "Teresa wrote: "Maybe I'm dim but did Francis get away with everything in the end?"
He's does! Sort of -
I find it very interesting that there is always a natural assumption that one must protect t..."

Thanks Nick for answering that. He got away with murder too then! Lord he gave me a pain. Yes he was a good villain but the way he carried on with his die away airs and his smelling salts made me want to 'plant him a facer'!!

Anne wrote: "I think Nicky and Bouncer are the stars of this book although I do like Elinor and Ned. Really they are all likeable characters except for the villains. Really enjoy this book and I’m sure I’ll enj..."

I can't agree: clearly Elinor and Ned are the stars, Nicky and the other brother are supporting characters and Bouncer is just for comic relief and to highlight how young Nicky is. I was wishing for more about Ned's sister.

GH is very adept at muddling the moral waters as to the crimes committed. Francis is not a straightforward villain ... yes, he killed De Castres, but then De Castres was a spy, and we are given to understand that he would have been killed anyway, executed as a spy or quietly "eliminated" by counter-spies. And the whole rigmarole with the paper stolen and returned is legitimised not only by family interests, but also wartimes and duty to king and country, etc. - not that Francis is presented as a patriot, but he could have let the espionage go forward if he did not care at all.

Lord Sidmouth is John's boss, that's all we hear about him. We have to assume that upright, moral John would serve under a "good" boss. These lines of Shelley's "The Masque of Anarchy" (1819) came to my mind:

Clothed with the Bible, as with light,
And the shadows of the night,
Like Sidmouth, next, Hypocrisy
On a crocodile rode by.

GH did not agree with Shelley who had nothing good to say about Sidmouth and the whole government of the day. But then, that would have been quite surprising, knowing - as we do - GH's political views.

this is the part where I thought it is very much a war book, written from a recent experience how spying works and endangers lives. What were GH as views? Was she close to intelligence service?

Well, Francis "gets away" with an extrajudicial execution. Had he applied for "double - O" status... he would have been in good stead anyway. In this story, there is no real cost to national security. The document is (soon to be) returned safely, likely without having been exposed to the enemy. The security apparatus likely prefers that breaches not be known beyond a tight circle.

GH's views? - She was conservative, if not reactionary. It does not influence her apparently a-political romances very much, but there are hints here and there. The "good guys" are Tories, read Burke's French Revolution, despise Luddites and the like, etc. etc.

There was lots to like in this book.
I read an unusual copy found on archive.org. The pages in this copy look like an original of the manuscript .. complete with ink blots. Also .. right after Ned gets shot by the intruder .. two pages are inserted from earlier in the book that had been left out (microfilming error I suspect) .. after that it was a smooth reading experience. And lastly, for some weird reason 1916 was the year stamped on the beginning pages of this archival copy. In all .. it was a bit of a mystery for this reader….
The first two microfilmed pages of chapter six had great humor. This covered the ride by Ned and Elinor from the Hall back to Highnoons. Then Elinor sees her new home in the daylight for the first time :)
I loved the well drawn characters .. Bouncer was a great dog character :) The Carlyon family was a delight.
Bedlington was the worst bad guy imho. Francis was quite the revelation; the bad guy kind of became a good guy! He was a real surprise .. and I loved GH’s “neat” solution to the spying situation.

I love the scene when Francis finally appears: the collision between him, Nicky and Bouncer, and the complete contrast to this ice cold man throwing a rapier at Bouncer, and the one claiming, he cannot see blood and dislikes violence. Nicky obviously forgets the threat to Bouncer as soon as they enter the house.

sabagrey wrote: "GH's views? - She was conservative, if not reactionary. It does not influence her apparently a-political romances very much, but there are hints here and there. The "good guys" are Tories, read Bur..."

Ah, this makes sense - also that GH would frame French Spies in 1946, at the beginning of the cold war: just look who your allies should be now, look back, at who was an allie in the regency and who was not

This has always been a favorite of mine and a frequent reread. However I have always felt Nicky's maturity level was inconsistent with his age. His behavior reminds me more of the school age Felix in Frederica than a young man at Oxford. I sometimes sympathize with his brother John's annoyance.

Ellen wrote: "However I have always felt Nicky's maturity level was inconsistent with his age.."

It's hard to see that students can still be so silly - but then, I do believe it. It's one of the side-effects of the weird education the English upper class gave their boys: taken from home at an early age, and extreme discipline in public school - it smells of Sparta. No wonder they are emotionally retarded and childlike when they go to college. They can't manage their new freedom, and with money and social status in the background, they need not.

Ellen wrote: "This has always been a favorite of mine and a frequent reread. However I have always felt Nicky's maturity level was inconsistent with his age. His behavior reminds me more of the school age Felix ..."

I see exactly where you're coming from Ellen! Yes, Felix would come to mind now that you've mentioned it.

what is the name of the young man in the foundling? Who originally sets of the plot? He might act this way, if ever confronted with a young lady

Ellen wrote: "This has always been a favorite of mine and a frequent reread. However I have always felt Nicky's maturity level was inconsistent with his age. His behavior reminds me more of the school age Felix ..."

I always think the kid (6 year old boy I think?) in Sylvester or the Wicked Uncle acts more like a toddler.

No! I find him completely adequate for his age and his situation! He has only spent time with his absurd mother or with his nurse button. The way he tackles life when it does not overwhelm him is admirable for a child of 5 or 6 years "thrown in foreign lands"

Interesting take, Sophie, I appreciate it. I'll try to notice that the next time I do a re-read.

This has always been one of my favourites and one I have re-read innumerable times. A neat premise, a fabulous and varied cast of charactersI and a fab romance.

think Francis Cheviot is one of my favourite villains. He lights up the page when he appears and knocks other characters into the shade. I would have loved it if GH had written a series of spy novels with Francis as the anti-hero!

The wicked banter between Elinor and Edward is so clever and entertaining. I think the gift of irony is incredibly well illustrated in this book.

I found Nicky painfully cringeworthy. He sounded and acted like a 12 year old rather than the 18/19 year old that he is. GH clearly adored her young male characters and some are brilliantly executed - others not so much.

I liked the way GH. Fought in much more of the history of the era - including the more questionable aspects.

A thoroughly fabulous read no matter how many times I read it.