Dickensians! discussion
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Martin Chuzzlewit 4: Chapter 36 -
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The timetable and links for this thread are here:
[XIV]
25 Oct: Chapter 36, part I
26 Oct: Chapter 36, part II
27 Oct: Chapter 37
28 Oct: Chapter 38
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29 Oct: Free day
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30 Oct: The 3 Prefaces and
Postscript
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[XV]
31 Oct: Chapter 39, part I
1 Nov: Chapter 39, part II
2 Nov: Chapter 40
3 Nov: Chapter 41
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4 Nov: Free day
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[XVI]
5 Nov: Chapter 42
6 Nov: Chapter 43, part I
7 Nov: Chapter 43, part II
8 Nov: Chapter 44
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9 Nov: Free day
New Thread
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The Cover Picture
This is by Harold Copping (1863 - 1932). Do you like it? He was an English illustrator, whose illustrations for Charles Dickens are always styled to be attractive to look at. Like some other artists, he only produced a few, and they were to illustrate the characters rather than the scenes. They are about the most recent we look at in "Dickensians!" (for the most part from the early 1920s) and I have included just one for most of our Big Reads, plus a few for short stories.
So if you search for Harold Copping in the search field to the right, half a dozen or more posts where they are included will come up. Plus this article has several to click on too:
https://victorianweb.org/art/illustra...
I think my favourite of the ones we've seen is of the Cheeryble Brothes from Nicholas Nickleby, but people often choose those of the children in 'Charles Dickenss stories. The artwork is always quite sentimental, and rather idealised. For instance the one of Mrs. Sairey Gamp and Mrs. Betsey Prig shows two nice respectable old ladies, companionably enjoying a glass of wine … which is not really how I think of them! (But I’ll happily post it if anyone asks 🙂)
I thought Harold Copping had captured Pecksniff's expression of piety and old Martin Chuzzlewit's demeanour very well here, even though he does not usually produce humorous pictures, and never caricatures. There is a pencil study of Tom the crossing sweeper from Bleak House which is very naturalistic, but that medium was not typical for the artist. Water colours were his choice, reproduced by colour lithography, especially for his many illustrations of the Bible. It was a time consuming and expensive process though, which is perhaps why there were so few included.
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Chapter 36: Tom Pinch Departs to Seek His Fortune. What He Finds at Starting (part (i) until “You are going to stay with me of course. Where’s your box?)
Salisbury feels like a different town to Tom Pinch, now that he has had his eyes opened to what Pecksniff is really like. Tom’s acquaintance, the organist’s assistant, advises Tom to go to London. Tom had already been thinking of this as well, since John Westlock and Tom’s sister are both in London. He makes arrangements to go, and enjoys the novelty of the coach ride to London, with its rollicking feel:
“Yoho, past hedges, gates, and trees; past cottages and barns, and people going home from work. Yoho, past donkey-chaises, drawn aside into the ditch, and empty carts with rampant horses … Yoho, by churches dropped down by themselves in quiet nooks …”
Tom is delighted to find that Mrs. Lupin has met the coach in her own chaise-cart.
“Mr. Pinch Departs to Seek His Fortune” - Hablot Knight Browne - February 1844
She has no news of Martin, but presses a basket of tasty food for him to enjoy on the journey, which he happily shares with the coachman, who:
“was so earnest in his approval of Mrs Lupin’s provident habits, and congratulated Torn so warmly on his good fortune, that Tom felt it necessary, for the lady’s sake, to explain that the basket was a strictly Platonic basket, and had merely been presented to him in the way of friendship.”
The coach rattles its way through the countryside all night, and it is daylight by the time Tom is set down in London. He has no idea where he is, so enters an inn where he can rest in one of their public rooms.When he wakes it is 8 o’clock so he sets out to finds John Westlock who lives in Furnival’s Inn, High Holborn.
John is delighted to see him and gives Tom a great bear-hug, and sets to to make him welcome with breakfast, before he allows him to speak. Then John asks for news of Pecksniff, so Tom gravely tells him what has happened. Seeing how heartbroken Tom is, John feels bad for teasing Tom about Mr. Pecksniff. He insists that Tom must stay with him, and although Tom feels reluctant to accept such generosity, he agrees.
(And there we must leave them, enjoying both their breakfasts and each other’s company, until tomorrow, when we will read the conclusion of chapter 36.)
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Did your ears prick up at the mention of Furnival’s Inn, High Holborn, where John Westlock now lives? This was once where Charles Dickens himself lived, between 1834 and 1837. He shared it with a younger brother, Frederick, but it proved unsuitable after his marriage, so he moved to Doughty St.
So it is a most respectable address; an extension of Lincoln’s Inn where John Forster, Charles Dickens’s friend and biographer also lived.
Here’s more:
https://victorianweb.org/authors/dick...
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It’s long, perhaps a little overlong for modern tastes (did you enjoy the “yo-ho” language?) but very effective in conveying what it must have been like in the moment. I can quite see Tom Pinch in my mind's eye enjoying his jolly jaunt!
Did anyone else get a hint of Barkiss, with the description of the coachman enjoying the tasty viands provided by Mrs. Lupin? I’m thinking of the earlier novel David Copperfield, where (view spoiler).
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I loved this chapter, so it's hard to choose!
How about the personification of the London coach, as:
“none of your steady-going, yokel coaches, but a swaggering, rakish, dissipated London coach; up all night, and lying by all day, and leading a devil of a life. It cared no more for Salisbury than if it had been a hamlet.”
There are so many details I loved here, and this one really made me laugh:
“Furnival’s Inn [being] within a quarter of an hour’s walk of Tom’s starting-point, but seemed a long way off, by reason of his going two or three miles out of the straight road to make a short cut.”
Now many of us have done that?
But I think my favourite quotation from this first half of chapter 36 is when Tom first mounts the coach:
“he took his seat upon the box instead, and looking down upon the four greys, felt as if he were another grey himself, or, at all events, a part of the turn-out; and was quite confused by the novelty and splendour of his situation.”
Tom Pinch, our hero! Quirkily humorous, this perfectly depicts how truly modest Tom Pinch is, and makes us sorry for his previous treatment by the Pecksniffs.
Another detail I really enjoyed was Mrs. Lupin’s horse “Dragon (who ought to have been called Dumpling)”
Have I quoted your favourite here? 😆 I look forward to everyone's comments.
I love the beginning when Tom is feeling a bit of depression and anxiety: but still, it was wonderfully pleasant to reflect that he was his own master, and could plan and scheme for himself......startling, thrilling, vast, stupendous truth, a dreamy haze, magical adventure.......
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Bionic Jean wrote: "Yes! I love the way we can se things through Tom's eyes too. Glad you've found this thread Jodi 🙂"Jean: I would not have enjoyed this as well without you and the rest of the Dickensian experts! I am sorry to be so technically challenged with Goodreads. Thank you for all you do for us!
Jean, I also thought of Barkiss when the coachman commented on how lucky Tom was. I wonder if this is going to go in the same direction as in David Copperfield.
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Ah, a favourite quotation! My favourite involves yet another mention of the finger-post that has been mentioned a few times before. ‘And that’s the last of the old finger-post’ thought Tom, straining his eyes, ‘where I have so often stood to see this very coach go by, and where I have parted with so many companions! I used to compare this coach to some great monster that appeared at certain times to bear my friends away into the world. And now it’s bearing me away, to seek my fortune. Heaven knows where and how!’
The finger-post literally points a direction and think of how many directions our characters have taken so far. Some to America and back, others to London, and once in London to scattered homes and rooming homes. Dickens seems always sending someone, somewhere, all the time. That moves the plot along, and gives the readers new vistas.
In this novel we have considered Campbell’s Monomyth as a means to trace a hero’s voyage, but in many ways all travels to unknown or uncharted places are heroes and explorers.
What awaits Tom?
I, for one, loved the Yoho repetition. It just worked for me as a repeating rhythm beating in time with the coach and horses. I was glad to see Tom regaining his appetite with Mrs. Lupin's gift basket. I loved this quote:
"Tom had been so long used to steep the Pecksniff of his fancy in his tea, and spread him out upon his toast, and take him as a relish with his beer, that he made but a poor breakfast on the first morning after his expulsion."
which I took to mean that Tom had lost his appetite because of his emotions. Which I can easily relate to. But my goodness, what a wonderful way to describe that.
Have we gotten to the part yet with John Westlock putting the french rolls in his boots? What a curious thing to do. And are "french rolls" really croissants?
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I didn't know that word, although we still call a very long baguette a "French stick".
Oh a baguette!! That makes sense. Now I have a really great image in my head of long baguettes in John’s boots. That’s funny!
Jean wrote : How about the personification of the London coach, as:“none of your steady-going, yokel coaches, but a swaggering, rakish, dissipated London coach; up all night, and lying by all day, and leading a devil of a life. It cared no more for Salisbury than if it had been a hamlet.”
I loved this one too!
I loved the description of the trip to London. The words so effectively describe just what the coach trip entails, some of the risks that happily didn’t snare Tom’s driver, but even more so the sights changing as they approach London. Dickens could never know how readers like us in the distant future would get such a wonderful look at travel in his world through his descriptions.
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Great quotations, Peter and Bridget and particularly significant (oops, unintentional pun!) ones. Plus I really enjoy reading familiar ones again, as it's always good to know others also find something chimes with them, when you've really enjoyed a phrase so much.
Bridget - it's a fabulous image I agree, and quite a practical place for John to put a French stick (though I hope he didn't have sweaty feet 😂)! I wonder if Charles Dickens had seen a young friend or relative, perhaps living in cramped conditions unlike John Westlock's do this.
Sue - "Dickens could never know how readers like us in the distant future would get such a wonderful look at travel in his world through his descriptions."
Yes, how he would marvel at our smiles. 🙂 So now let's move on to complete the chapter ...
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John insists that Tom stays with him and gives him a key. He dismisses Tom’s compliments on how he lives, as merely being like Philip Quarll or Robinson Crusoe. John knows that Tom will want to search out his sister, so they agree to walk together part of the way, so that John can direct him to the right area. While John goes to get dressed, Tom reads the adverts in the paper, in the hope of finding a job. He grumpily observes that the people who write the advertisements don’t actually want what they claim they do.
“It really seems,’ said Tom, relinquishing the paper with a thoughtful sigh, ‘as if people had the same gratification in printing their complaints as in making them known by word of mouth; as if they found it a comfort and consolation to proclaim “I want such and such a thing, and I can’t get it, and I don’t expect I ever shall!”’
Once John is sure Tom will be able to find the brass founder’s house in Camberwell, where his sister is a governess, the two men split up. Tom rings the doorbell of the house. Both the porter and the footman are rude to him, and although Tom remains polite, he worries that if the servants behave so uncouthly to him, Ruth might be being badly treated.
“‘Dear me!’ said Tom. ‘This is very disrespectful and uncivil behaviour. I hope these are new servants here, and that Ruth is very differently treated.’”
However, while waiting for Ruth, Tom hears an argument in the next room. The porter announces Tom and the argument abruptly stops, and Ruth runs out into his arms. Tom is delighted to see her after so long, and says how well she has grown and how womanly she looks - but that he can tell that she has been crying.
Tom tells her that if she’s not happy there, she doesn’t have to remain.
“Oh! Tom’s blood was rising; mind that! Perhaps the Boar’s Head had something to do with it, but certainly the footman had.”
The master of the house wants to speak to Tom, and Ruth accompanies him. In the room where the argument had taken place, they find:
“a middle-aged gentleman, with a pompous voice and manner, and a middle-aged lady, with what may be termed an excisable face, or one in which starch and vinegar were decidedly employed. There was likewise present that eldest pupil of Miss Pinch, whom Mrs Todgers, on a previous occasion, had called a syrup, and who was now weeping and sobbing spitefully.”
Her employers tell Tom that they are very displeased with Ruth, because she has no ability to make their daughter Sophia respect her. Tom replies plainly and forthrightly, that the child’s inability to respect others is something she has learned from her parents, and not from Ruth:
“how can you, as an honest gentleman, profess displeasure or surprise at your daughter telling my sister she is something beggarly and humble, when you are for ever telling her the same thing yourself in fifty plain, outspeaking ways, though not in words; and when your very porter and footman make the same delicate announcement to all comers? As to your suspicion and distrust of her; even of her word; if she is not above their reach, you have no right to employ her.”
“Tom Confronts Ruth’s Dictatorial Employer” - Fred Barnard - Household Edition - 1872
He then proceeds to reprimand them for thinking they may treat Ruth how they wish, just because they pay her a salary.
“Tom Pinch at the Brass and Copper Founder’s - Harry Furniss -
The Charles Dickens Library Edition, 1910
He waits in the garden until his sister has collected her things, and when she appears Tom tells her not to cry, or they will think she is sorry to go:
“Hold up your head. There! Now we go out as we ought. Not blustering, you know, but firm and confident in ourselves.”
The narrator says that the idea of Ruth and Tom “blustering” is absurd, but that Tom does have “severe determination written in his face”.
Now that Tom has Ruth with him, he realises that he can’t stay at John Westlock’s home any more, so they find lodgings in Islington. Tom secures rooms by paying a week’s rent in advance and using John Westlock’s name and address as a referee.
After doing the shopping together, Tom heads out to meet John Westlock to tell him what has happened.
Mod
We have followed the character developments through the story arcs of both Martin and Mark, and now we see that Tom Pinch is undergoing his own process of growth. He really show his courage, strong moral sense and strength of character here, for the first time. We had hints of it with Jonas, although his knocking him down was so reactive that seemed to be almost an accident. Then the confrontation with Pecksniff was a little subdued, (although as Peter pointed out, Tom did get in a few sly double-entendres and digs.)
Tom is striking out on his own and taking his sister under his care. His process of disillusionment with Mr. Pecksniff was necessary for him to move forward. Part of his process of independence includes speaking up for his sister and finding his own places to live. Having Ruth with him forces him to strike out on his own, instead of living under the kind protection of John Westlock.
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We know that Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe was one of Charles Dickens's very favourite books, which he read over and over again. Our previous group read, lead so expertly by Erich, set out to find out what made it so essential to him, and how it influenced so much of his writing. Sometimes there are overt references, such as here.
John Westlock also mentions Philip Quarll, which is not so well known now. The Life and Adventures of Philip Quarll, the English Hermit; Who Was Discovered by an English Merchant on an Uninhabited Island in the South-Sea ... With Numerous Illustrations. (Mr. Dorrington's was largely derivative of Robinson Crusoe. It was thought to be by ‘Edward Dorrington’, but generally attributed to Peter Longueville, and describes Quarll’s fifty years of solitude and suffering on a South Sea Island.
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How about a short cheeky one?
“Oh! Tom’s blood was rising; mind that! Perhaps the Boar’s Head had something to do with it, but certainly the footman had.”
😄😂
I'm looking forward to everyone's comments 🙂
I did love seeing Tom come into his own in this chapter! My favorite quote from the first part was when the reality of the situation hits him: "He had his moments of depression and anxiety, and they were, with good reason, pretty numerous; but still, it was wonderfully pleasant to reflect that he was his own master, and could plan and scheme for himself. It was startling, thrilling, vast, difficult to understand; it was a stupendous truth, teeming with responsibility and self-distrust; but in spite of all his cares, it gave a curious relish to the viands at the Inn, and interposed a dreamy haze between him and his prospects, in which they sometimes showed to magical advantage" (526). It's kind of long but perfectly expresses that combination of apprehensiveness and exultation this move has wrought in him. I don't know if anyone watches the show Schitt's Creek, but a character on the show (Alexis) frequently tells people "Love that journey for you!" and that popped into my head as I read that paragraph. As you pointed out, Jean, Tom's discovery of Pecksniff's true nature is the Abyss for him, the metaphorical death and rebirth that Martin went through in Eden. The old kowtowing, submissive Tom Pinch dies, and the strong, independent Tom Pinch is born. This transformation is not as shocking due to the Jonas episode, which I think helps its veracity tremendously. To see a previously completely submissive character suddenly taking charge of himself with such authority would be difficult to believe if we had not been given hints that that steel was in there all along.
Anyway, it is satisfying to witness, and I am glad that Tom is able to take Ruth out of such a toxic environment. My favorite quote from this section is when Tom tells her employer that simply hiring a person does not give him the right to treat them with disrespect and suspicion: "If you imagine that the payment of an annual sum of money gives it to you, you immensely exaggerate its power and value. Your money is the least part of your bargain in such a case" (542). You would think that the person entrusted with their most precious possession--their child--would be a person of importance to them, but they show her no more respect than they do the lowest scullery maid.
I'm anxious to see where their newly-diverged paths are going to take Tom and Ruth!
I knew Tom had some more grit in him and he has shown how he can be bold and courageous. I know how he feels underneath and inside his heart is beating fast and his voice might sound a bit shaky at first because I’ve been Tom Pinch, unsure and reliant on others. His confidence has been misplaced all of these years onto Pecksniff and now he has control 100% and it’s beautiful to watch! I always love Tom chapters! Jean, thanks for clarifying Furnival’s Inn. I did perk up when I read that and knew there was significance to it. I have a favorite quote but my kindle is jammed up right now.
Yes, a wonderfully enjoyable chapter, from beginning to end. I love that Tom was able to be the hero right at the beginning of his new adventure. This will give him the confidence he needs, I think.Tom's comments when reading the want-ads seem to show he is making many realizations now. My favorite quotation was a simple but telling one: "He began to think, ‘There are more Pecksniffs than one, perhaps.’”
Looking back on some earlier posts on this book, many people enjoyed Tom more than I did when he was first introduced. I found it difficult to like him because he seemed to me so responsible for his own ill circumstances because he refused to see the truth about Pecksniff even when everyone else did. But it really is such a pleasure to see the turnaround here, and how much strength he has as a character once he does at last realize he needs to stand up for himself, and for others!
Like many of you, I also enjoyed the travel writing so much in this chapter. And I love how much everyone in this book worth mentioning appreciates Mrs. Lupin, and the coachman's commentary on the merits of a woman who has youth on her side vs. a woman who can pack a good basket. Mark needs to get back to the Blue Dragon!
Like everyone else, I cheered for Tom Pinch. As Jean, Lori, Cindy, and Kathleen have said Tom is also rounding into the arc of the Monomyth as well. Too often the Monomyth is applied to individuals who have some form of grandeur or superiority in a novel/play applied to their character. Dickens, through his portrayal of Tom Pinch — and many other characters — shows how anyone is able of great action and stature. To me, that is one reason I enjoy Dickens so much. He values and celebrates all characters of all levels of society, wealth, and stature.I also thought the Furniss illustration portrayed the entire wealthy family as pompous entitled snobs. He captured Dickens’s words wonderfully well. By placing Tom in front of his sister with his elbows up and fist clinched, Tom is portrayed as a defender of his sister and what is right.
Julie wrote: "And I love how much everyone in this book worth mentioning appreciates Mrs. Lupin, and the coachman's commentary on the merits of a woman who has youth on her side vs. a woman who can pack a good basket...."I found this part funny too! I know we had some discussion at the beginning of the book about Mrs. Lupin's age and that she was a little older than Mark, but did we ever settle on how old we thought she was? I was thinking that she was in her thirties, possibly even late thirties? I certainly don't see her as an elderly woman! However, I think it is indicative of Dickens' times that there would be surprise at her attractiveness at "her time of life" (529). With the life expectancy being so much lower, and disease and tooth decay wreaking havoc on people unchecked, I suppose quite a few women in their thirties (especially working-class) appeared older than their years. I agree, Julie--Mark needs to get back and snap up that "remarkable fine woman"! :)
Julie and Cindy, I agree too that Mark should get back to the Blue Dragon. Now if he can only reconcile himself to a life of comfort and happiness!
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So let's make a bit more progress there ...
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Tom Pinch gets lost in London because he is too distrustful to ask anyone for directions. He find himself at the Monument, and is poked in the back by a parasol, which turns out to belong to Charity Pecksniff. She is surprised to see him, and asks Tom if he has run away from her father (adding that she would not blame him if he had). He replies that he has not run away, but he has left Mr. Pecksniff, and that this was understood by them both. Charity now wants to know if Mr. Pecksniff is married, and Tom replies, blushing, that he is not, nor is he likely to be, if he wishes to marry Miss Mary Graham. Charity tells Tom that it’s a “wicked world” and that he might be surprised by how manipulative people can be.
Arriving at a street door where she lives, Charity invites Tom into Mrs. Todgers, but Tom says he has to get to Furnival’s Inn for an appointment. Charity implies, although she doesn’t say straight out, that she is engaged. She says that her friend will be going there shortly and can take Tom with her, if he will just step inside and wait for a moment. She mentions that her sister Merry is inside, which makes Tom reluctant, assuming that Merry won’t want to see him for the same reason that Charity and he are now on better terms [i.e.because of he punched Jonas, albeit accidentally]. Charity tells him that she never divulged that story to Merry, and even if she had it wouldn’t bother her.
“There was something hidden here, which piqued Tom’s interest and troubled his tender heart.”
Tom goes inside, worrying that his new clarity about Mr. Pecksniff’s character might spread over to a new knowledge about other people. However at the moment:
“he had merely a confused impression that Miss Pecksniff was not quite sisterly or kind; and being curious to set it right, [so] accompanied her as she desired.”
Tom is taken aback at the visible alteration in Merry, and his heart swells with pity. Charity goes out of the room to look for Mr. Moddle to accompany Tom to the inn.
Despite looking so different, Merry speak in her old way, and asks why Tom has come to see her, when they have never had a friendly relationship before. Tom replies that he holds no ill will against her, and Merry bursts into tears. She thinks he is taunting her, but Tom assures her that he is simply being honest, and she:
“thanked him, through her tears and sobs, and told him she had never been at once so sorry and so comforted, since she left home.”
Merry asks Tom to tell the old Mr. Chuzzlewit, if he should see him again, that she often thinks about his words to her in the graveyard. She is now so changed that she recognises her old character was a “vain, unthinking, miserable girl”. She hopes that her message to Mr. Chuzzlewit will help him realise what an influence he could have over others. If he had continued just a little longer, she says, she would have been won round. Merry does not blame him for her troubles, but hopes that he will have compassion for people who are as vain and frivolous as she was. Tom promises, although he does not clearly understand what she means.
Merry leaves the boarding house, and Tom sees that Mrs. Todgers is there in the room. She has genuine compassion in her eyes, and says she knows what Merry is going through, but says that Merry never say a word about it.
Tom and Mr. Moddle walk to Furnival’s Inn together. When Tom wishes Mr. Moddle joy, because of his impending marriage, Mr. Moddle unaccountably replies that he doesn’t care what happens to him. In fact he seems to be jealous and depressed. Tom parts with him at the inn with some relief, and finds John Westlock waiting worriedly for him there.
Tom tells John the whole story about Ruth and needing to find a place of their own. John drives Tom and his belongings to Islington, where he asks Tom if he needs money. Tom replies that they are fine, and goes inside. John Westlock catches a glimpse of Ruth as he sits outside in the carriage, and admires her.
And both Tom and Ruth are content, together in their new residence.
Mod
"The Mistress of The Blue Dragon" - Sol Eytinge, Jr. - 1867
Eminently marriageable to a Victorian eye, I would have said!
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The Monument
When Tom is at The Monument, we read: “if Truth didn’t live in the base of the Monument, notwithstanding Pope’s couplet about the outside of it, where in London (thought Tom) was she likely to be found!”
We have come across The Monument at least once before in Dickens’ writing, at the start of Nicholas Nickleby when his father jokes abut climbing it and falling off.
All Londoners know this. It is a fluted Doric column 202 feet (61.6 m) high, situated near the northern end of London Bridge. The proper name is "The Monument to the Great Fire of London, commemorating the Great Fire of London starting on 2nd September 1666". It stands 202 feet west of the spot in Pudding Lane where the Great Fire started.
There are figures depicted in a frieze on the base of The Monument, including King Charles II and allegorical figures representing Science, Architecture, and the reconstruction of London after the Great Fire of 1666. The 202-foot column itself was designed by Sir Christopher Wren and Dr. Robert Hooke, who intended it to be a scientific instrument for astronomical and gravity experiments as well as a memorial.
Pope’s Couplet is from his Moral Essays (1731-5). Alexander Pope was a Roman Catholic, and here he refers to an inscription on the base of The Monument which blamed those of his Faith for the Great Fire of London:
“Where London’s Column, pointing at the skies,
Like a tall bully, lifts its head and lies“ (lines 439-40)
Incredibly enough, this inscription was only removed in 1831!
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I so appreciate your details on The Monument, Jean. Thank you! And for the illustration of Mrs Lupin. Her eyes seem to be calling Mark back, don't they. 😊It's striking to see the turn of events for our characters. And I think it was brilliant of Dickens to show Tom and Ruth through John's eyes at the end. A heartwarming scene, that makes us feel both that brother and sister will make it just fine, and what may be missing from John's otherwise successful life.
Seems to me that Mark could be of use to poor Augustus Moddle! Another fellow that could benefit from Mark’s encouraging jollity!! This was another excellent chapter. Mrs. Todgers is definitely a bright light here. What a super lady and selfless giving the 5 pound note to Tom. John is also a wonderful friend to have and you can see he wants to help Tom. He also has seen the beautiful Ruth and may not be able to forget her! Do we have the stirrings of a new potential romance? What a great match for Ruth John would be!!
I too appreciate the info on the Monument, Jean . I was ignorant of this edifice. Still confused about the Man in the Monument, the door & the couple that went through the door.I was a little surprised about the change in Mr. Moddle. A little henpecked perhaps by Charity? You care what becomes of you? I don't, the Elements may have me when they please. I'm ready.
My favorite passage was about Mrs. Todgers. But in some odd nook in Mrs. Todger's breast, up a great many steps, and in a corner easy to be overlooked, there was a secret door, with 'Woman" written in the spring, which, at a touch from Mercy's hand, had flown wide open, and admitted her for shelter.
I agree with Lori that it appears a romance may be on the horizon between John Westlock and Ruth.
Lori wrote: "Seems to me that Mark could be of use to poor Augustus Moddle! Another fellow that could benefit from Mark’s encouraging jollity!!Agreed! Moddle is kind of the opposite of Mark, isn't he--as determined to be miserable as Mark is to be jolly.
I'm with Chris on liking that moment for Mrs. Todgers.
It's horrifying the way people react to Merry right now just by looking at her, and it's worse because Dickens doesn't tell us what they see. Is there kind of a parallel there to Mrs. Todgers observing that Merry never tells anyone what she's going through?
I fear Dickens is in league here with an ethos that says your husband is your husband no matter what horrors he commits, and a good wife has a responsibility to bear the burden without complaining. It's complicated: obviously, Dickens is showing that Merry is in a horrible situation and that's not right. But it's not right because Jonas is terrible, not because his wife shouldn't be entirely under his command.
It troubles me that through her plea to Tom, the book blames her position on elderly Mr. Chuzzlewit for not pressuring Merry harder to avoid marrying Jonas, rather than on the rule that once she's married, her husband has to be her lord and master. Now that she has married him, she's being portrayed as a tragic lost cause, and not someone who could continue to benefit from an intervention.
I hope I'm wrong and there's room in this book for someone to intervene and Merry doesn't just have to wait it out until her husband dies.
Mod
Yes! John Westlock seems a point of normality whom we can identify with in this novel doesn't he? Even if he does keep his French sticks in his boots 😆
Lori - I too like Mrs. Todgers, who after all has made a living for herself running this boarding house for clerks. Charles Dickens usually says that such places smell of the stables - or (as earlier here) cabbage, But providing meals and rooms in a rundown house full of boisterous young men can't be easy! And Chris - that quotation about her is fabulous - I'd forgotten it - but it must be my favourite too I think.
Mod
But here it is also the guide who looks after it, who is not a grand person at all! 😆 You can still climb the Monument if you have the energy; there are 311 steps. So the "man in the Monument" here refers to the man taking the money. "A tanner" was slang for sixpence (6d.) a little silver coin now worth 2 and a half pence.
Here's a modern site to plan your visit, (and you can see the little entrance door in the photo) but it might cost a bit more! https://www.themonument.org.uk/plan-y...
I suppose Tom Pinch might have tried this with his new-found freedom, if he hadn't been collared by Charity.
Mod
That's a great observation! Both have these exaggerated characteristics, but I can never really get a handle on Moddle, except that he cannot cannot get past his infatuation with Merry.
Ah I think we might need to reserve judgement about Merry. Yes, Charles Dickens had strong views in line with the Victorian ideal of womanhood, but I'm not so sure that he would go so far as to think "your husband is your husband no matter what horrors he commits, and a good wife has a responsibility to bear the burden without complaining."
In real life Charles Dickens would probably think that staying was her duty, but also hope that such a woman had friends and relatives who would help her. Remember all his work with Urania Cottage? He was very concerned about the welfare of women on the streets, and those who had got into dire situations beyond their control.
"The book blames her position on elderly Mr. Chuzzlewit" and "Is there kind of a parallel there to Mrs. Todgers observing that Merry never tells anyone what she's going through?"
These are interesting thoughts, but we never get Merry's perspective on it - or not yet. I feel that Charles Dickens really is keeping his cards up his sleeve here. 🤔
Charles Dickens wrote a terrible ending for (view spoiler) at the hands of a thug in Oliver Twist. Jonas is so similar that we just have to hope the same is not in store for Merry. Her friends are not thieves and murderers, but good people (apart from her egocentric hypocrite of a father, of course.)
Bionic Jean wrote: "Her friends are not thieves and murderers, but good people (apart from her egocentric hypocrite of a father, of course."That is a good point (among many others!) and so it is all the more striking that Tom does nothing to help her here, especially after he's just bailed his sister out of an abusive situation. Of course his sister is more his responsibility--and so it's maybe important here that Merry can't count on her father as someone who ought to be playing the role of looking out for her.
I read this book decades ago and cannot remember at all how this ends, so I'm very curious as to how it might work out, if as you suggest, Jean, Dickens is keeping his cards up his sleeve.
Jean London is one of the great cities of the world have yet to visit, so thanks for clarification about the monument & link, where I can see that it is much larger than the first photo I saw. The interior steps are similar to the Statue of Liberty or the Washington Monument in the U.S.
Mod
And Julie, I love it when I can't remember the ending of a book I am rereading. Though like as not I will make the same mistakes in predicting what will happen, especially in a mystery! And the more we read, the more mysterious this one becomes 🙂(As mentioned before, that was a deliberate change in direction on the part of Charles Dickens.)
Merry, Cherry, another Mary, Mrs Lupin, Moddle, Mark, Martin, Jonas, John, Ruth and Tom. We have met quite the collection of marriageable and recently married characters. Dickens has presented the reader with several combinations of characters who add to the concept of marriage and courting. The plot is thickening. We have seen with the marriage of Jonas and Merry what happens when a marriage falls apart. I think Dickens might well be presenting the reader with combinations of characters who may well pair off in the coming chapters.
Jean The illustration of Mrs Lupin by Sol Eytinge is indeed delightful. It is a wonderful portrait of a kind, caring, proud but yet humble person.
The Monument information was fascinating. From the picture, I don’t see steps to climb, but perhaps on the other side? Over the years, I have made attempts to read Pope, but would invariably find that the couplets became tiresome.
Mod
There's a stone spiral staircase inside, leading to a viewing platform at the top. So you climb the 331 steps to a height of 160 feet. The staircase is the only way to the top, as there is no lift, but the reward is panoramic views of the city. It would have looked very different to Tom Pinch (if he had climbed it) to how it does now though.
I found it interesting that some parts of the USA know of baguettes, and for others they are not as common. They are popular here now, but not when I was a child. Fusion food has risen fast!
Dickensians!
Books mentioned in this topic
Oliver Twist (other topics)Oliver Twist (other topics)
The Rivals (other topics)
The Rivals (other topics)
The Rivals (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Charles Dickens (other topics)John Forster (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Charles Dickens (other topics)
Richard Brinsley Sheridan (other topics)
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Mr. Pecksniff and Old Martin Chuzzlewit - Harold Copping - 1924 (colour lithography)