The Readers Review: Literature from 1714 to 1910 discussion

Pride and Prejudice
Week 6: Volume III, Chapters 9 - 19
Discussion Questions

1) How has Elizabeth’s understanding of Darcy changed since his first proposal? What specifically convinces her that his character has fundamentally altered? Darcy claims his faults were “pride and resentment.” Do you think his self-assessment is accurate? What flaws still remain?

2) Which character shows the least growth by the end of the novel? Is this intentional?

3) Is Austen suggesting that love alone is not enough for marriage? What additional qualities are necessary?

4) How does Lady Catherine’s opposition ironically contribute to Elizabeth and Darcy’s union?

5) How does Lydia’s scandal continue to affect the Bennet family even after her marriage?

6) Elizabeth insists she would not marry without esteem and affection. How radical is this stance in her social context?

7) In what ways does the novel critique the idea that women must marry to secure their futures?

8) How does Mr. Bennet respond to Elizabeth’s engagement differently than he responds to Lydia’s marriage?

9) What role does silence—or restraint—play in healthy relationships, especially when contrasted with Lydia’s impulsiveness?

10) Does the ending feel earned, or too neat? Why?

11) Austen writes with irony even in the novel’s happiest moments. Where do you see humor lingering in the final chapters?

12) What do you think Austen wants readers to learn from Elizabeth and Darcy’s journey?

13) Looking back across all three volumes, which moment most decisively determines the novel’s outcome—and why?

I want to thank everyone who joined in this read. This was my first read of Pride and Prejudice, and the information that everyone contributed allowed me to see points I glossed over. This is one of the many reasons I love this group.

I have a feeling I mentioned somewhere that the scene with Lady Catherine and Elizabeth is paralleled later by a scene in Little Women with Meg and Aunt March. Once the young women are forbidden to marry the man they aren't 100% sure they want to marry, they vigorously defend their attachment.

Neither Lydia nor Mrs. Bennet learned anything during the book. They both think the marriage with Wickham was a happy ending.

This novel was a delight. I now realize why so many pseudo-regency novels have been written in modern times, and why romance novels in general tend to follow a formula of the heroine and eventual hero not getting along until the end, where love blooms (none of these live up to Austen's talent, in my opinion). I do love a happy ending, so I was delighted that Elizabeth and Darcy eventually resolved their differences and that Jane and Bingley also reconciled. As for the greatest changes in characters, I think Elizabeth and Darcy both came to realize the extent of their faults and that at the end both were striving to put aside both their prideful acts and the prejudices which made them so quickly jump to conclusions about other people. The least changed were Lydia, Mrs. Bennet, Lady Catherine, and Mr. Collins, all of whom were so obnoxious I wanted to slap them.

In some cases there are closer similarities, a nod to the alert reader. In Jane Aiken Hodge’s novel The Adventurers, set in the aftermath of Napoleon’s retreat from Russia, one of the heroines gets a chance to play Elizabeth to Lady Catherine: part of the joke being that the obnoxious older lady deplores the reading of novels, and has no idea what hit her. Of course, in Hodge’s story the heroine also has blackmail material with which to threaten her imperious tormentor.

Nancy wrote: "The least changed were Lydia, Mrs. Bennet, Lady Catherine, and Mr. Collins..."
I would also add Wickham to the group. I think he took the clinging Lydia with him as a distraction, but would probably have cast her away. Now all his debts are settled and he is married, he has no choice as to play along, but I do not think that he all of sudden changed his character. It is even mentioned in the end that they lived beyond their means and needed financial help from the now richer sisters(-in-law).

Gem wrote: "4) How does Lady Catherine’s opposition ironically contribute to Elizabeth and Darcy’s union?"
That part I had forgotten about before this re-read. It is funny that she more or less storms to Darcy to discuss the impertinence of Elizabeth not wanting to deny him. As he later describes himself, this made him believe that there was some hope left she might have changed her mind.
However, maybe they would have met again anyway due to Bingley getting closer to Jane and Darcy possibly visiting them, but at least Lady Catherine sped up the process.

Gem wrote: "How does Mr. Bennet respond to Elizabeth’s engagement differently than he responds to Lydia’s marriage?"
Mr Bennet is in the end a little confusing in my opinion. First he is mad at Lydia and Wickham and does not want to let them into the house, which is understandable considering those days when elopement was really a scandal, but later (I think in the last chapter - I do not have the book in front of me now) he talks of Wickham (if I am not mistaken) as his favorite son-in-law while having warmed up to Darcy. I do not know whether you read that, too. I need to check this again.

Gem wrote: "13) Looking back across all three volumes, which moment most decisively determines the novel’s outcome—and why?"

For me it is and has always been the letter from Darcy to Elizabeth after the proposal scene as a certain climax because Darcy "comes from his high horse" to open about his feelings and gets "smashed" by Elizabeth with some false accusations and some maybe legitimate critic. He tries to put that right in the letter and tries to explain why he did what he did and what really happened. I believe that Elizabeth was starting to rethink a bit her own opinions and thoughts e.g. questioning what had really happened between Darcy and Wickham. I think that is deep down the start of her change in feelings, which then become more strengthened by her visit in Pemberley and the praise that came from the housekeeper there and so on.
I read the other day a review of someone giving the whole novel a bad light and accusing Elizabeth of just getting feelings for Darcy because she sees the grandeur of the Pemberley Estate and that she therefore is nothing else but a gold-digger/ fortune hunter, but I strongly disagree with that. She knew very early on how rich Darcy was so she could have just accepted his proposal.
I like how real the characters often act or think. When she drives to the Estate and sees the grandeur of it she says to herself that this could have all been hers. Many of the women in her time would have taken that even if it might meant to not love in a romantic way.

Nancy wrote: "This novel was a delight. I now realize why so many pseudo-regency novels have been written in modern times, and why romance novels in general tend to follow a formula of the heroine and eventual h..."

So glad you enjoyed it, Nancy! (And I hope you did too, Gem.) I love Austen for her deft turn of phrase, her way of zeroing in on what’s meaningful in ordinary life experiences, as well as for the stories!

Regarding Mr. Bennet’s comment about Mr. Wickham being his favorite son-in-law, I think he’s being sarcastic. He adds something to the effect of “I defy even Sir William Lucas to come up with a better son-in-law.” Sir William’s son-in-law is, of course, Mr. Collins, the most ridiculous person imaginable; so I think he’s saying that Mr. Wickham is even more of a figure of fun than Mr. Collins, and Mr. Bennet “likes” Wickham because he enjoys opportunities for mockery.

Sarcasm is notoriously hard to recognize on the page, and I think the critic who believes Elizabeth decided she wanted to marry Mr. Darcy after seeing his estate is basing his or her opinion on not getting the sarcasm when Elizabeth jokes to Jane about it. But after Elizabeth says that, Jane implores her to be serious—so at least her sister didn’t believe she meant it. I agree with you: Jane Austen works pretty hard to detail the stages by which Elizabeth changed her mind about Darcy, and an attentive reader would not be deceived by her joke.

Yes, on the sarcasm, in both instances! Austen's wit is often subtle.

I was referring to the end of chapter 59 in my edition:
“…and Mr Bennet soon assured her that he was rising every hour in his esteem.
‘I admire all my three sons-in-law highly’, said he. ‘Wickham, perhaps, is my favourite; but I think I shall like YOUR husband quite as well as Jane’s,’”<\i>

Now I see actually that YOUR was written in italics. So he must have meant it sarcastic or in a way his favourite in the way he became and the way he is his son-in-law. I read over that distinctive italic / above in capital letters.

Hedi, thanks for reminding me about Wickham. You're absolutely right that the chances of him changing are slim to none.