Here Is Our Education discussion

I don't know if it was only in New York State, but I've heard that in some places, 60% of parents had their kids opt out of the standardized tests. I think that's pretty cool, but I probably would never have done it myself. I view the tests with a grain of salt. Certainly I don't think teachers' careers should hang on kids' results.

IQ: A Smart History of a Failed Idea Maybe you'd like this- it talks a lot about the history of multiple choice tests which was really eye-opening for me as I had always taken them for granted as just the way we "had" to be tested.

Howard Gardner's endorsement speaks volumes. I remember learning his theory of multiple intelligences in college.

Kressel wrote: "Howard Gardner's endorsement speaks volumes. I remember learning his theory of multiple intelligences in college."
I did a paper on Gardner when I was getting my Masters in Library Studies:) I'm not sure I really buy into the multiple intelligence theory, or at least into his definition of intelligence, but I think these kinds of questions are interesting.

It makes sense to me. As a baalas teshuva, I figure I'd score high on intrapersonal intelligence. And I was longing for spirituality at a very young age.

I don't disagree so much with the idea that are different ways people process and recall information- I had more of a problem with the practical ways he thought the educational system should be changed to enhance these strengths. I haven't looked at any of this stuff in years- maybe I have to dig up my paper so we can have a productive conversation.

I mentioned over in the homeschool topic my varied educational experiences and also that my parents are both retired public school teachers. I think they're glad they got out of it when they did given how insane the whole testing thing has gotten.

Though interesting anecdote as far as rewarding teachers based off standardized test results... My parents taught with a teacher who they knew was just not a good teacher, couldn't control his class, didn't actually teach much yet this man had so many accolades and praise because of his students consistently high test scores. I can't even imagine how frustrating it must have been for the other teachers at that school who were doing their best and saw this slacker getting raises and awards. Needless to say they eventually found out this guy would give out the answers to his students when administering the tests!!!

I would also add that my parents both taught at an inner city elementary school. And obviously it can be difficult to educate a student who hasn't had enough to eat or whose parent is in prison or who didn't sleep last night because of gun or gang violence on their street, etc, etc. My parents have stories of the kid who brought their parents drugs to school or the time a body was found in the schools dumpster and how year after year there was seemingly always a kid who for one reason or another would not want to go home in the afternoon. I'm not by any means trying to tell a stereotype (and all of these things are in fact true and they happen at schools in virtually any area I'm aware) but it really brings to mind how unfair the education system can be. I remember going shopping with my mother for her classroom. she would have to buy her students school supplies and always had snacks and extra food for them and pay for it all out of her own pocket. You've got poor inner city school districts today where students have to bring their own toilet paper, where there aren't enough textbooks for each student and/or the books are far out of date or not up to the current standards of what the tests are testing for. Then you have other districts with shiny new books where most students have fancy backpacks and supplies. It's not an even playing field for basic education. How can you then compare the test scores in say Detroit or Chicago or Harlem with those in the more affluent suburbs? And of course how then is it the teachers fault?

Then there's how hard especially the more affluent students get pressured on tests and getting perfect grades to go to college and you have kids having all out panic attacks before the tests.

There's so many facets to this discussion. I'm not sure there's every any way tests can be seen as being an accurate representation of any educators ability or even of what students are actually learning. And then there's the question of how much are students learning, actually truly absorbing and learning vs how much are they just being taught the test or taught to memorize info but not processing it. And that's probably the worst possible thing that comes from the tests. I think schools often destroy a child's natural curiosity and love of learning also and big standardized tests no doubt are a big contributor in that also.

But I guess then there's the question of how do we gage whether our education system works? whether teachers are doing their jobs well? I don't personally have an answer to that and I'm not sure there is one.

If you want to know how crazy things have gotten- the achievement tests in NJ schools are now administered in the "spring" (which begins in March and goes all month long) and then "the end of the year" which in actuality means they're starting testing next week (last week of April and first two weeks of May). This is supposed to measure how much the students have gained from the first round of tests to the second- but the test periods are literally 4-6 weeks apart. If this is not a criminal waste of time and resources, I don't know what is.

I don't know if I can say I'm a supporter of public education as I was never in that system, but it seems to me like the jewish schools have kids from very varied economic backgrounds but because the parents and the community value education they somehow make it work and all the kids are taken care of and taught in an environment infinitely better than those of the inner city schools. I'm comparing apples to oranges though and it's not like the jewish day school system is financially sustainable right now but I think there is something to be said for the value jews place on education in comparison to the general population. The kids whose parents are choosing to send their kids to charter schools are a testament to this.

It's funny you should say that, Abigail, since this group was a response to the lack of secular education in the Chareidi schools.