Sword & Sorcery: "An earthier sort of fantasy" discussion

Unearth some arcana! Dig up some seemingly forgotten treasures and share with others. A few years ago a discussion got a group to rediscover Campbells' Ryre character.

OK, since it didn't win on a write-in, I'll again urge The Man of Gold by M.A.R. Barker, now back in print as an eBook.

And/or The Sword of Rhiannon by Leigh Brackett (which came to mind because it's going to be the Sword & Laser pick next month).

I think I'll give MORITURI by Barry Sadler a shot. I've been a CASCA fan forever, but never read anything else...found this at the used book store and snapped it up.

I'm also vaguely tempted to revisit Robert Adams' Horseclans books (now available electronically with really dreadful covers. Really, really dreadful covers) but I'm afraid the years will not have been kind to them.

I've got LOTS of this stuff. It'll be fun

Nice Jason, finding anything by Barry Sadler is crazy hard. Every used bookstore I go into I never see them. I used to have a whole Casca run but traded it. Now I wish I hadn't LOL

I look forward to digging through my collection of more obscure S&S. I have read Tark and the Golden Tiderecently, and found it to be a fun mix of Howard and Leiber. Not very deep, but good for a little fun.

We should also take the time to dig up some recent S&S that might be somewhat obscure to the average reader; i.e. THE KORMAK SAGA , pretty good stuff!

S.wagenaar wrote: "We should also take the time to dig up some recent S&S that might be somewhat obscure to the average reader; i.e. THE KORMAK SAGA , pretty good stuff!"

Big thumbs up on those, yes!

I think I'll read one of the Blade books by Jeffrey Lord. Many of these are SF but a bunch of them are heroic fantasy at least verging on Sword & Sorcery. Blade is a kind of combination, Conan, James Bond, Esau Cairn.

And as for "obscure" s & S, my Bitter Steel collection is certainly obscure. The Thal Kyrin character from many of the stories in that collection was definitely influenced by the Conan tales.

I have your Bitter Steel collection Charles, and will definitely check it out! I have a terrible affliction in which I collect books and stories far faster than I can possibly read them...

S.wagenaar wrote: "I have your Bitter Steel collection Charles, and will definitely check it out! I have a terrible affliction in which I collect books and stories far faster than I can possibly read them..."

It's so good to know that I don't suffer alone in that affliction ...

Yep, I suffer from it too. Or rather, I enjoy it as well. :)

Charles wrote: "Yep, I suffer from it too. Or rather, I enjoy it as well. :)"

It's a good problem to have.

(And for me it's not just books -- I do the same thing with movies, games, etc.; I've come to the conclusion that what I'm really seeking in my entertainment, in whatever form, is narrative.)

Even worse, I sometimes find myself reading about books rather than actually READING THE DAMNED BOOK! Whenever I pick up a new/old book I end up researching the crap out of it and checking all the online reviews-pro and con. Stupid internet...

I do a lot of reading about books too, but for the most part it's just about books. I don't really keep up much with TV/movies

Anybody here ever try Kavin's World by David Mason? Might give this one a go, if it is in fact true S&S...

I've read Kavin's World. Definitely Heroic fantasy, which I consider a little broader than just S & S. Published originally by Lancer, I think, the folks who brought back Conan first. So they were trying to capitalize on that success.

I am also looking at Zorachus by Mark E Rogers. Looks to be more dark fantasy than S&S, but it seems to have a strong cult following.

Never read that one

S.wagenaar wrote: "I look forward to digging through my collection of more obscure S&S. I have read Tark and the Golden Tiderecently, and found it to be a fun mix of Howard and Leiber. Not very deep, b..."

Read that years ago, and forgot about it..

Yeah, I liked Tark OK. Some of the earliest Clonans, were Gardner Fox's Kyrik series and his Kothar series, and John Jakes with his Brak the Barbarian. Probably most everyone here has heard of those, of course. I liked all of them. The first Kyrik book: Kyrik: Warlock, Warrior, has a special place in my heart. Then there is Lin Carter's "Thongor," who is kind of a mix of Conan and Tarzan, I thought.

I never heard of Kavin's World,Zorachus, or Tark and the Golden Tide. I love learning about these. Fow now, I reading Brak The Barbarian for the Clonan discussion, which is decent so far.

or

Joseph wrote: "The Sword of Rhiannon by Leigh Brackett"

I love that book and always whished it had become a series

How about the short stories of Lord Dunsany, which are all avaialble free from Project Gutenberg?

Dunsany's stuff strikes me more as in the high fantasy than in the sword and sorcery genre. Of course, he was writing before there was such a separation in fantasy really.

Charles wrote: "Dunsany's stuff strikes me more as in the high fantasy than in the sword and sorcery genre. Of course, he was writing before there was such a separation in fantasy really."

Any excuse to read (or reread) Dunsany is a good excuse.

Charles wrote: "Dunsany's stuff strikes me more as in the high fantasy than in the sword and sorcery genre"

Thats probably a fair comment :-)

But I just read Dunsany's The Book of Wonder and although there's a lack of evil sorcerors and barbarian swordsmen, there are plenty of thieves taking gems from magic idols and getting eaten by monsters... so I think it's got the start of the sword and sorcery tropes in there

It's been quite a while since I've read Dunsany. He was definitely a precursor for plenty of disparate elements of later fantasy, I imagine.

Charles wrote: "It's been quite a while since I've read Dunsany. He was definitely a precursor for plenty of disparate elements of later fantasy, I imagine."

He did get an entire chapter in Literary Swordsmen and Sorcerers: The Makers of Heroic Fantasy. (Great book, btw, if you're interested in older authors.)

I've got that book actually. Read it a long time ago. I'd forgotten it had Dunsany in it. I need to reread it sounds like.

Just read something that would count for both "obscure" and "Clonan" -- "Shadow of a Demon", the first Niall story by Gardner Fox. It appeared in Dragon Magazine #2 -- I have the CD archive of Dragon 1-250, which is where I read it -- although it looks to also have been reprinted in The Year's Best Fantasy Stories 3.

Not a great or particularly original story, but entertaining enough in its way.

Joseph wrote: "Just read something that would count for both "obscure" and "Clonan" -- "Shadow of a Demon", the first Niall story by Gardner Fox. It appeared in Dragon Magazine #2 -- I have the ..."

Joseph, you are a true librarian. I've never heard of his Niall character. Did he emerge into something better?

As far as I understand, Fox wrote several Nial tales for the magazine, but no actual novels. Perhaps Joseph could expand on this..,

S.E. wrote: "Joseph, you are a true librarian. I've never heard of his Niall character. Did he emerge into something better? ..."

That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me ...

As to Niall's travels, I'll cheat: http://www.gwthomas.org/niallofthefar...

I found that page when I was Googling after reading the story. To summarize: It looks like there were a total of 10 stories published between Dragon #2 and Dragon #55; the first story went into the Lin Carter anthology I mentioned, but the rest of them don't ever seem to have been reprinted or collected.

And it's interesting going through those very early issues of the magazine. They actually had a surprising amount of fiction, including a multi-part story by one "Garrison Ernst".

(Myself, I didn't start collecting Dragon Magazine until issue #44 or so. But as I may or may not have said previously, for many years it had a really solid book review column that led me to many, many authors I might not have discovered otherwise.)

Joseph wrote: "Just read something that would count for both "obscure" and "Clonan" -- "Shadow of a Demon", the first Niall story by Gardner Fox. It appeared in Dragon Magazine #2 -- I have the ..."

Found some scans of The Dragon magazine online, and read the first Niall tale. Pretty good, but more like excellent fan fiction than a mainstream novel. Good S&S elements, but the one-against-many sword fight of "over three hours" is a bit silly! Still, I liked it enough to read the other two stories I found.

S.wagenaar wrote: "Found some scans of The Dragon magazine online, and read the first Niall tale. Pretty good, but more like excellent fan fiction than a mainstream novel. Good S&S elements, but the one-against-many sword fight of "over three hours" is a bit silly! Still, I liked it enough to read the other two stories I found."

Yeah, it was better than the story I wrote in college for Creative Writing, but not all that much better. But it was a pleasant enough way to pass some time.

Been wanting to read The Warrior Who Carried Life for quite some time. It seems that it's the only S&S themed book Geoff Ryman wrote (he writes mostly Science Fiction). It's also interesting to see how he handles masculinity and sexual identity & orientation within the genre. I'd recall S.R. Delany trying something similar with his Tales of Neveryon and Janrae Frank with In the Darkness, Hunting.

Joseph wrote: "S.E. wrote: "Joseph, you are a true librarian..."
That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me ..."

@Joseph, I think I'll forever refer to you as "Joseph the True Librarian of the First Order"... just to maintain your self-esteem.

Dunsany had some sword and sorcery elements, others not. Epic scope, for instance, was right out.

Picked up Quest of the Dark Lady by Quinn Reade. The author is actually Ben Haas, who generally wrote pulp western fiction, notably the Fargo series and Sundance as well. These gritty westerns were well written by the standards of the genre and well worth seeking out (Fargo is kinda like Conan in a western setting!). I have another S&S book by Haas called The Sword of Morningstar, under the byline of Richard Meade. I believe he wrote a third called Exiles Quest. A lot of writers were jumping onto the S&S bandwagon in the 60's and 70's with the success of the Ace Conan books. To avoid any misunderstandings the publisher had Sword & Sorcery in red above the title and "In the tradition of Conan" on the cover as well. This book is a welcome addition to my bookshelf and a great example of obscure S&S-I love this stuff!

I didn't know all three of those fantasies were by Haas. I've got and read them all. Not bad but not all that memorable to me.

loved Fargo as a high schooler, great Western/S&S crossbreed. used to have half the series, really wished I still did.

Anybody read Alan Burt Akers? Reading Transit To Scorpio (Dray Prescot, #1) right now and so far I am enjoying the Burroughesque adventure. Seems there is alot of books in this series.

Aaron wrote: "Anybody read Alan Burt Akers? Reading Transit To Scorpio (Dray Prescot, #1) right now and so far I am enjoying the Burroughesque adventure. Seems there is alot of books in this ser..."

I have a bunch but don't think I ever quite tried them.

But speaking of sword & planet, I did enjoy The Sword of Rhiannon although her use of Celtic names on Mars kind of bugged me.

I'm a big fan of Alan Burt Akers, who is really a British author named Kenneth Bulmer. thirty seven volumes of the series were initially published in English. More were published in German. Quite a few of those have finally been released in omnibus editions in English in the past few years. I like all of the series, though liked best the books roughly between 12 and 24

I have The sword of Rhiannon on the shelf I just haven't gotten around to reading it yet.

That is cool Charles, this book is good enough to go looking for those omnibuses. I found a couple loose volumes in the used bookstore the other day, maybe I will get lucky and find some more lol.

Here is a series of S&S books I have never heard of; Sorcerer's Blood
Looks to be a short lived 2 book series that never took off. Seen an add for it in the back of one of my other old paperbacks circa 1982. One review on Amazon was pretty positive. Anyone here read this one?

I'm thinking of reading the Nictzin Dyalhis stories that Karl Wagner has reprinted in Echoes of Valor III.

S.E. wrote: "I'm thinking of reading the Nictzin Dyalhis stories that Karl Wagner has reprinted in Echoes of Valor III."

Excellent choices. (And isn't Nictzin Dyalhis the greatest name ever for a sword & sorcery author?) I thought I heard someone was going to be putting out all of Dyalhis' work electronically at some point?

Edit: HA! http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Weird-Fi...