We Love Lisa Kleypas discussion

Did Sugar Daddy end the way you wanted it to?

No, I was disappointed but I came to accept it without any difficulties when "Blue-Eyed Devil" hit the shelves. All in all, I was completely satisfied with LK's contemporary series! I just wish she would write the youngest son's book!!!

I haven't read it yet, but I'd heard many felt that way. I guess I'll let you know what I think in February. :)

Yes the right guy got the girl. Hardy didn't love Liberty or he wouldn't have pulled that boneheaded move in the end that he did. It was totally uncalled for not only on a romantic level, but even on a 'old friends' level.

yep the right gal went with the right guy!

I read LK's contemps before any of her historicals and they had me hooked.

Yes, she got the right guy,not only did he pull that bonheaded move Bekah spoke of but he made out with every girl/woman in Welcome before he just up and left her and spent yrs doing his thing before he thought to look her up again.
I liked Hardy tho and am ready to start Devil, so it will be interesting to see what hes up to now.

Ooooohhh, Kathy Anne, get reading Blue-eyed Devil girl! It doesn't get hotter than Hardy Cates!

Yea....thinking back to BED, he is super hot...from the word GO. But until someone points out something I'm missing, I'm still insisting he deserved to grovel more.

Heidi,
I haven`t been able to get to it,what with watching our and my Gramas property don`t head for the Paacific ,and I really liked Sugar Daddy so I just keep thinking of Blue Eyed Devil,I hope I can get to it after hubs gets home tonight and takes over the watch.

Yes, I think the right guy got the girl in Sugar Daddy. Gage truly loves Liberty. Hardy broke her heart one too many times.

I was so mad at him at the end of SD. Just like I was with Sebastian. But I forgave him in BED. I didn't need him to grovel anymore, though, Bekah. Hmm...what was it that swayed me back to Hardy? Besides the fact that he absolutely sizzles off the page in BED. ^_^ Not a good enough reason, is it? I'll have to get back to you on that once I re-read. But... a scene that stands out in my mind was how sensitive he was towards Haven with regards to what happened to her and her fear of itimacy. I really loved how he was with her.

One thing that bothered me about Hardy, though, was his ruthlessness. This is why he pulled that "boneheaded" move in SD. He was completely ruthless when it came to his compulsive drive for success. NOTHING, not even an old friendship, was going to get in his way. I was so disappointed in him.

Argh! Everything is getting blurred in my mind. I can't remember things anymore. Definitely need to re-read.

AnneOK wrote: " All in all, I was completely satisfied with LK's contemporary series! I just wish she would write the youngest son's book!!! "

AnneOK, LK hasn't said she's NOT going to write Joe's book. She just that she hadn't planned anything yet. Her exact words being: "I’ll admit, I don’t know what to do about Joe . . . I don’t have a story planned for him any time soon, but I do imagine that after the experience he’s had (you know, near the end of the book) that it’s had quite an impact on his life. So maybe some day I’ll get a chance to write a book for him . . . I do love these Travis brothers :-)"

I strongly believe we'll get Joe's book yet. Hey, she left a whopper of an event at the end of Smooth Talking Stranger. I just think that because the Travis books have been from the 1st person POV of the heroine, and she wants to be consistent, she may not have Joe's heroine in her head yet. I think that's why she's excited to write a new "Friday Harbor contemporary series", because she plans to do it from a 3rd person POV. Hopefully, doing that project will help her see Joe's story soon. ^_^

Lady Jayne wrote: "Yes, I think the right guy got the girl in Sugar Daddy. Gage truly loves Liberty. Hardy broke her heart one too many times.

I was so mad at him at the end of SD. Just like I was with Sebastian. Bu..."

Yes, Lady Jayne - that is exactly why I still had a problem with him. It was his ruthlesness. That was the problem in SD, and it didn't seem to have changed in BED, which leads me to believe he didn't change at all that much. And I wanted to see growth in that area. Like a light bulb for him to see that isn't a quality he needs anymore in his life.

Bekah, having re-read Blue-Eyed Devil again I have realised now why I fell in love with Hardy and forgave him after SD. It's just that when I tried to think back, I was just blinded by memories of how sexy and sizzling he was. Which when I re-read my review, was clearly what stuck with me most when I finished. LOL The forgiving part happened on a more subconscious level. The second time reading I was consciously looking for more to Hardy than his sexiness. I just wanted to re-read Sugar Daddy first to remind myself of his beginnings before I attempt to set out Hardy's case to you. So, watch this space! ^_^

ok! i'm ready, willing and eager to be reformed!

Bekah wrote: "ok! i'm ready, willing and eager to be reformed!"

Hmmm...that's great but I'm not ready to put forth Hardy's case yet. This is something I can't just approach lightly. LOL Plus, I'm not done re-reading Sugar Daddy yet. I kinda skipped to all the Gage parts first and now I have to actually read it properly. ^_^

But...I will start with this...One of the reasons why I forgave Hardy for the "boneheaded move" he pulled in SD was because Liberty and Gage both forgave him. If, they, the ones who were wronged, could forgive him... then why couldn’t I? And I believe he never meant to do what he did to hurt Liberty.

*Spoilers for BED*

Pg. 87 BED:

The scene where Liberty and Haven are talking about Nick when Haven is staying with Liberty and Gage after she left Nick.

“Sometimes an imitation of love can be pretty damn convincing.”
The words reminded me of something I’d heard her say a long time ago on her wedding night. A lifetime ago. “ Like the imitation you had with Hardy Cates?”
She nodded, her expression turning thoughtful. “Yes, although I wouldn’t care to put Hardy in the same company as Nick. He would never hurt a woman. In fact, Hardy has the opposite problem…always wanting to rescue someone…I forget the name for it…”
“A White Knight Complex.”
“Yes. But after the rescue was done, that was Hardy’s cue to leave.”
“He wasn’t such a white knight when he ruined Gage’s business deal,” I couldn’t resist pointing out.
Liberty’s smile turned rueful, “You’re right. But I think Hardy considered that a shot against Gage, not me.”

Also, because Hardy did feel remorseful about it, and while the words “I’m sorry” never came out of his mouth, this scene showed that he was sorry for it.

Pg. 279 BED

As Liberty left, Gage contemplated Hardy for a moment. Tension strung the air, until my brother reached out to shake Hardy’s hand. “Thank you,” Gage said. I owe you for helping my sister out of that elevator. Is there’s anything I can do to repay you – “
“No,” Hardy said at once. He seemed to be caught somewhat off guard by Gage’s sincerity. It was the first time I had seen a trace of awkwardness in him. “You don’t owe me a damn thing. I…after the stunt I pulled with your biofuel deal…”
“You more than made up for that two weeks ago,” Gage said. “Haven’s safety – and happiness – mean everything to me. As long as you’re good to her, you’ve got no problem with me.”
“I understand.”


Those are the reasons I forgave him for what he did at the end of SD, but not the reasons I fell in love with him. I'll post on that later. I have to get my thoughts together first. My copy of BED has so many marked pages now that I have to go back to those passages again and think it over. ^_^

I would like to ask, though, Bekah, why do you think Hardy is so ambitious, to the point of being seemingly ruthless? Understanding the reasons behind this is key to understanding (and being able to love) Hardy, I believe.

I understand his drive to succeed coming from where he did. But a shot at Gage *is* a shot at Liberty. But maybe LK used this as a distinction to show that Liberty wasn't the woman for him, but Haven was. But if Liberty was so special to him no matter in what capacity - you just dont do something like that to someone you care about. I think for me, the total absence of a boneheaded move like that on Gage's part added to the totally classy way he handled just impressed me so much. It was soooo touching - so loving.

But I wonder, if given the opportunity and written differently, would I feel the same about Gage had he done it?

Probably not. Its the actions that won me over so completely. Not that he's so damn sexy, but for the way he loves.

Maybe when rereading BED I can find something similar in Hardy that will make me see it in him too..the times he saved her were great, but I expected that from him. I guess I wanted to read something similar to Gage's classiness from him. Maybe thats the problem - comparing him to Gage. I don't know...

Oh, Bekah, we can’t compare Hardy to Gage. They are two different men. In SD, Hardy was initially the hero (always helping Liberty when she needed it), who then turned out to be the "villain", because as we know, Gage was the hero, in the end. We can’t compare the "villain" to the hero. That would be unfair. We can’t make Hardy into Gage. Hardy is Hardy. And what is there about Hardy to love? That is the question, right? ^_^

Firstly, Re. the stunt Hardy pulled, in SD he really believed that the stunt he pulled with the biofuel deal was “just business”.

SD pg. 406:

“It’s just business, honey. Sometimes you have to get a little dirt on your hands.”
Some dirt doesn’t wash off, I thought of saying. But I knew he would have to find out for himself someday. “You used me to hurt him. You figured it would break us up, and on top of that, it would put Victory Petroleum in the position of owing you a favour. You’d do just about anything to succeed, wouldn’t you?”
“I’ll do what has to be done,” he said, his face smooth. “I’ll be damned if I’ll apologise for wanting to get ahead.”
…….
“Ah, honey….One lost deal doesn’t mean shit to him. He’s had it all since the day he was born. If he’d been in my shoes, he’d have done the same thing.”


But as we know, Gage didn’t do the same thing, which is why we fell in love with him. Hardy shouldn’t have done what he did. And while in SD Hardy was unrepentant, from that scene in BED I posted previously, he now did feel bad about what he did. And as I said, Liberty and Gage forgave him, so I can too.

As for the reasons behind Hardy’s driving ambition? I don’t believe that Hardy became so ambitious, just because he grew up in a trailer park. It wasn’t the poverty that drove him. I believe it was FEAR. Fear of becoming his father. Fear of becoming a monster. Fear is what I believe drove this compulsive need to leave Welcome and become a success…no matter what the cost… to NOT become his father. And all his pushing Liberty away, was because he believed he was protecting Liberty from himself.

Okay, I’m not eloquent like LK so I’ll show you with scenes from the books of my understanding of Hardy (with emphasis added).

From Sugar Daddy:

SD pg. 74-75
Scene where they are playing basketball and before Liberty steals her first kiss from Hardy:

“I’m too old for you, in more ways than one. And you’re not the kind of girl I want.”
…
“Want kind of girl do you want?” I asked with difficulty.
“Someone I can leave without looking back.”
That was Hardy, offering the brutal truth without apology. But I heard the submerged admission in his statement, that I wouldn’t be the kind he could leave easily. I couldn’t keep from taking it as encouragement, even though that wasn’t what he intended.
He looked at me then, “Nothing and no one is going to keep me here, do you understand?”
“I understand.”
He took a ragged breath. “This place, this life…Lately I’ve started to understand what made my dad so mean and crazy he ended up in jail. It’ll happen to me too.”
“No,” I protested softly.
“Yes, it will. You don’t know me, Liberty.”
I couldn’t stop him from wanting to leave. But neither could I stop myself from wanting him.


SD Pg. 138:
Scene where Hardy tells Liberty he’s leaving Welcome to work as a welder on a rig:

“Christ,” he whispered. “You want to make this as hard as possible, don’t you? I can’t stay, and I can’t take you with me. And you want to know if I’m sorry for anything.” I felt the hot strikes of his breath on my cheek. His arms wrapped around me, stifling all movement. His heart pounded against my flattened breasts. “I’d sell my soul to have you. In my whole life, you’ll always be what I wanted most. But I’ve got nothing to give you. And I won’t stay here and turn into my father. I would take everything out on you – I would hurt you.”
“You wouldn’t. You could never be like your father.”
“Do you think so? Then you have a lot more faith in me than I do.”


SD pg. 102:
Scene after Hardy helps Liberty study for her maths test:

“You need sleep too.” He touched my face, his thumb smoothing the wing of my eyebrow. “You do fine of the test, honey. Just don’t let yourself panic. Take it step by step, and you’ll make it through.”
“Thank you,” I said. “You didn’t have to do any of this. I don’t know why you did. I really -”
His fingertips came to my lips with feather-light pressure. “Liberty,” he whispered. “Don’t you know I’d do anything for you?”
I swallowed painfully. “But…you’re staying away from me.”
He knew what I meant. “I’m doing that for you too”. Slowly he lowered his head to mine, with the baby cradled between us.


I wonder whether, in a way, even though Hardy still wanted Liberty after all the years, that he didn't somehow unconsciously sabotage himself, because despite all he'd achieved, he still saw himself as not good enough... even though he wants so much to be good enough? But this would be on a deep level, because on a conscious level Hardy just saw what he did as "business" and he would do anything to get ahead. In the end, he didn't really fight for Liberty, did he?

SD pg. 407

"I have to say goodbye now, Hardy."
He stared at me with bitter understanding. We both knew there was no room in this for friendship. Nothing left but childhood history.
"Hell." Hardy caught my face in his hands, kissing my forehead, my closed eyelids, stopping just short of my mouth. And then I was wrapped in one of those hard, secure hugs I remembered so well. Still holding me, Hardy whispered in my ear. "Be happy, honey. No one deserves it more. But don't forget...I'm keeping one little piece of your heart for myself. And if you ever want it back...you know where to find it."

**Spoilers for BED**

Hardy was a victim of domestic violence. That was something he and Haven had in common. They were both scarred by people they loved, who were meant to love them. In Hardy’s case, it was violence from his father.

Hardy always portrayed an air of devil may care. But inside….he was hurt...and...he was running. He was running from his “bad blood”. He was running as far as he could to not become that person. Although, in the compulsive drive not to become a monster like his dad, his moral compass got skewed and he became a ruthless businessman instead.

Why was Hardy so afraid to become his father?

My heart ached for Hardy in this scene:

BED pg. 210:

In the scene in his apartment, after he saved Haven from the elevator:

“I explored the bold shape of his nose, one fingertip drifting to the tantalizing crook at the bridge. “You said you’d tell me someday,” I said. “How you broke it?”
Hardy didn’t want to talk about that. I could tell by the look in his eyes. Except that I had risked a lot by confiding in him, by being honest, and he wasn’t going to back down from that. So he gave me a short nod and poured himself another shot, and to my regret, removed his hand from my knee.
After a long pause, he said flatly, “My dad broke it. He was a drinker. Drunk or sober, I think the only time he felt good was when he was hurting someone. He cut out on his family when I was still young. I wish to hell he’s stayed away for good. But he came back now and then, whenever he wasn’t in jail. He would beat the hell out of Mama, knock her up, and light out with every cent he could take from her.”
He shook his head, his gaze distant. “My mother’s a tall woman, but there’s not much to her. A strong wind could knock her over. I knew he’d kill her someday. One of the times he came back, I was about eleven – I told him don’t even try, he wasn’t going near her. I don’t remember what happened next, only that I woke on the floor feeling like I’d been stomped by a rodeo bull. And my nose was broken. Mama was beat up nearly as bad as I was. She said trying to fight back only made him mad. It was easier if we let him have his way, and then he’d be gone.”
…..
I was floored by the revelation that Hardy had been the victim of domestic violence too. But in a worse way than I had, because he’d only been a child.
“So what happened to you dad?”
“He came back a couple of years after that. I was a lot bigger then. I stood at the door of the trailer and wouldn’t let him come in. Mama kept trying to pull me aside, but I wouldn’t budge. He-” Hardy stopped and rubbed his jaw slowly, and he wouldn’t look at me. I was filled with the electrifying awareness that he had been about to tell me something he’d never told anyone before.
“Go on,” I whispered.
“He came after me with a knife. Caught me in the side with it. I twisted his arm and made him drop the knife, and then beat him until he promised to get out of there. He never came back. He’s in prison now.” His face was taut. “The worst part about it was, Mama wouldn’t talk to me for two days after.
“Why? Was she mad at you?”
“I thought so, at first. But then I realized…she was scared of me. When I was going ape shit on dad, she couldn’t see any difference between us.” He looked at me then, and said quietly, “I come from bad stock, Haven.”
I could tell he meant it as a warning. And I understood something about him, that he always used this notion of being from bad stock as a reason to keep from getting close to anyone. Because letting someone in close meant they could hurt you. I know all about that kind of fear. I live with it.”


Hardy’s own mother looked at him as a monster…. when he was trying to protect her. The poor woman was filled with her own fears, but in being afraid of him, her son, who was still a child… she warped how Hardy saw himself. He then saw himself as a monster, and because of that, he pushed people he could care about away. In one sense, to protect them…. But also, to protect himself. Because the ones he loved hurt him deeply. Hardy is really a "tortured hero". And I have a soft spot for those.

**Spoilers for BED**

As I said in a previous post in the Travis series thread, the scene starting on page 285 of BED where Hardy is drunk, in the dark of his apartment and won't let Haven in after he’s gone to see his dad… it just....Tore. Me. Up.

It was in that scene that we find out just how horrible a monster Hardy’s father is, as if abusing one's family isn't bad enough.

BED pg. 287:
“What did he do,” I asked gently, “to get himself in prison?”
I wasn’t sure Hardy would answer. But he did. Sometimes the closest-held secrets in the world can be pried out with the right question at the right time.
Hardy spoke in a flat, hopeless whisper of a criminal in a confessional. I knew I was hearing things that he’d never said to any living being. “ He did fifteen years for aggravated rape. He’s a serial rapist…godawful things to women…never gave him parole. They knew he hadn’t changed. But the term was finally up, and they had to let him out. He’ll do it again. I can’t stop him. I can’t watch over him every minute. I can barely keep him away from my family- ”
“No,” I said scratchily, “it’s not your job to be his keeper.”
“-my brothers are taking after him. Bad blood coming through. I had to bail Kevin out last month, had to pay off a girl’s family, keep them from pressing charges - ”
“That’s not your fault,” I said, but he was beyond hearing.
“Evil bastards, all of us. No good white trash - ”
“No.”
Each breath scraped audibly in his throat. “Before I left dad at the hotel tonight, he told me - ” He stopped, shaking from head to toe. He swayed on his feet.
God, he was so drunk.
“Told you what?” I whispered. “What is it, Hardy?”
Hardy shook his head, backing away. “Haven,” his voice was low and guttural. “Get out. If you stay…I’m not in control. I’ll use you. Hurt you, understand? Get the hell out.”
I didn’t think Hardy capable of hurting me, or any woman. But the truth was, I wasn’t completely sure. At that moment he seemed like nothing so much as a large, suffering animal, ready to tear apart anyone who came near him.”


What followed was one of the most intense love scenes. It wasn’t just a physical joining. It was a tearing down of walls. They were both so vulnerable in that moment, and in that physical joining, there was a healing of deep wounds.

For me, Hardy and Haven’s journey is a story of two scarred people, who in opening themselves up to each other, found healing from the scars of the past.

Sorry, for all the long posts. I can’t seem to get Hardy out of my head now. LOL

Lady Jayne wrote: "Oh, Bekah, we can’t compare Hardy to Gage. They are two different men. In SD, Hardy was initially the hero (always helping Liberty when she needed it), who then turned out to be the "villain", beca..."


I picked up on his fear in SD. It was stark and clear. I understand that all too well. I work with dv victims everyday. I understand the fear, and I understand the motives behind their actions. But I also understand their strength, which I saw in both Haven and Hardy. Like Liberty recognized, it was something that Hardy was just going to have to learn on his own. He would have went a long way with me if he had just said those words. I'll forgive almost anything, but you have to show true remorse. And not even saying I'm sorry seems like he gets off a little lightly. I wish I could have gotten more of him in BED.

Reading some of those passages, I wonder if he really did escape anything, because he left Welcome, became successful and still he hurt her, which is why he stayed away from her in the first place.

Good section to discuss this though...SD makes you feel that Hardy and Liberty really should be together at first, but then you realize that Gage was the right one for her and Haven was the right girl for Hardy.

When I read BED I paid more attention to Haven - but when I reread it I will try to pay more attention to Hardy. I think it's just another disadvantage of having the book in only Haven's perspective.

**Spoilers for BED**

Bekah, as you mentioned, and I also think, that LK had Hardy pull that bonehead stunt to show that he wasn't the right guy for Liberty, because he put business before her. Unlike Gage who would put Liberty before anything.

In BED, LK showed us more of the "demons" Hardy was running away from. And you're right, he never did escape. Because even though he left Welcome, how could he ever escape when he thought being bad was in his "blood", not in his circumstance?

Hardy was always restless, because deep down he was always "running", without ever really facing his issues. But Haven brought him peace, made him feel comfortable within his own skin. He shared with her things he wasn't comfortable sharing with anyone else.

And in BED, he pulled another "boneheaded move", when after Haven saw him at his most vulnerable, and he made love to her with all the intensity he was feeling at the time, and felt he didn't deserve, he accepted a business deal with a friend of Churchill's on the promise that he would give up Haven. Churchill was meddling in her life again. But then Hardy realised he made a terrible mistake, it was a mistake that Churchill and his friend T.J. made in making the offer, and Hardy for accepting. Business wasn't more important to Hardy anymore…. Haven was.

And he went to her place to tell her all this and showed up to Nick attacking her and ended up being shot. In the hospital he told Haven that even though he felt he wasn't good enough for her because of his bad blood, he wanted to be good enough for her. That scene really touched me. I don't have the book reference here.

Even at that scene in the hospital, Haven was still blaming herself for Hardy getting shot because of her past with Nick brought them to that moment. And Hardy was blaming himself for his mom marrying his dad because she had gotten pregnant with him. Like all victims of abuse, they blame themselves. But the journey to healing is not a short and easy one, and I believe that Haven and Hardy would have to keep reminding each other to stop blaming themselves and let the scars of the past remain closed.

I love this quote in the epilogue:
"One of the blessings human beings take for granted is the ability to remember pain without re-feeling it. The pain of the physical wounds is long gone …and the other kind of hurt, the damage done to our spirits, has been healed. We are careful with those scarred places in each other."

Definitely think the right guy got the girl in Sugar Daddy...thanks for pulling so many great quotes/excerpts out Jayne!

I was hesitant to read this book cause I got the gyst of what was going to happen, a triangle of some sort would take place so I kept putting it off.

But I was very happy with the ending. Liberty definitely picked the right guy. Gage was perfect for her, the man was just marvelous. And I'll be honest I wasn't thrilled with how Hardy re-entered her life and just jumped back in expecting her to be there waiting for him with open arms and she openly welcomed him. As intense as their reunion scene was it made me flinch how she so quickly responded to him.

And this book is filled with tons of great quotes/analogies. I found myself marking pages where I read quotes that were very insightful and powerful. Kleypas really does have a way with words.