Q&A (and brownies) with J.J. Murray discussion

erotic 1 : of, devoted to, or tending to arouse sexual love or desire
2 : strongly marked or affected by sexual desire

In your humble opinions, what makes a book erotic?

Okay, I'll play the devil's advocate.

What's freaky deaky to you may be ho-hum to others. Been there, done that. And what is tame to you may shock others. (I'm trying to prove a point here, if you haven't already figured it out).

For example (let's get specific!): foreplay. To some readers, this is a new idea (Oh ... my!) they'd like to explore an awful lot one day. To others, this is just "normal, yo, what's the big deal? Get to the really freaky deaky stuff."

Can a writer of erotica ever push the envelope far enough for some readers? Is there even a limit to how far erotic writing can go?

Nine out of 328 pages in The Real Thing are erotic. That's less than 3% of the novel, yet readers are calling Christiana "nasty," "slimy," and "loose."

Um, wasn't Dante in the room? Why isn't he "nasty," "slimy," or "loose"?

I think there are double-standards in erotica, don't you?

I have read books that reminded me of sex ed class. Lots of parts and how they work together.

I have read erotica that is unintentionally funny because the author tries to use "sweet" dialogue during kinky sex. It just ... made me laugh. I have also howled at "nasty talk" during kinky sex--that to me is overkill.

If I had to sustain that kind of writing for 300 pages, it would take me years to write one book. I'd probably write short stories. Erotica is work.

Erotica titillates while porn shocks. Erotica uses a little hammer while porn brings out the sledgehammer. Erotica is a thunderstorm while porn is a category 5 hurricane. Erotica requires a reader to think and imagine while porn requires little thought or imagination because, well, there it is. Erotica is about passion while porn is about the act in and of itself.

Erotica is fantasy intensified. (and you can quote me on that)

In other words, it's the logic of erotica that escapes readers.

Let me rephrase.

The story has to make sense logically no matter if it is erotic or not. Sex for sex's sake is not enough to sustain any narrative.

Two people cannot merely meet and secrete--they must exchange heat.

Gosh, I'm right quotable today. Who knew?

J.J. wrote: "If I had to sustain that kind of writing for 300 pages, it would take me years to write one book. I'd probably write short stories. Erotica is work.

Erotica titillates while porn shocks. Erotica ..."

JJ, in a few short sentences you got to the heart of Erotica. I've read more bad...no, HORRIFICALLY BAD, Erotica than I'd care to admit all because someone asked me to review a book or critique their writing.

Well written Erotica, has emotional depth. It's gets beneath the skin of the reader and they become one with the characters on the page.

But that other stuff...it's like reading a really bad sex manual. "Insert Tab A into Slot B, rotate. Say 'Who's is it?'"

There's no emotional depth to it. The author's too often are so focused on the act, that they forget to involve the character's emotions. They neglect to create the appropriate setting for passion and too often the characters have these wannabe erotic encounters in some of the most ackward places and at times when as a reader I find it hard to dispense with reality long enough to read through the scene without taking a time out to take a deep breath so I won't throw the book across the room.

But you know what? In my opinion (please note that this is my opinion alone), the books by authors that write in this fashion tend to lack emotional depth anyway. In general, their characters are mere caricatures. They're like Data from Star Trek, they want to show emotion, but they aren't equipped for them. In turn they write what they consider "Freaky-Deek" sex, with little emotional depth, slap a BDSM label on it, call it erotica and I as a reader get bored.

And Eugenia, I agree with you, there aren't that many authors that can write Erotica well. Shoot, some of those that can write it can't write it well consistently, but that handful that can...Wooo-Buddy! They Are Off The Richter!

Eugenia said: ...kinky sex is great but kinky sex with no story, no depth is just boring and I've gotten bored with that kind of erotica.

Same here!

Last year I had the pleasure of attending the Ellora's Cave Convention (their first) and if I learned nothing else, I learned that they don't want to publish kinky sex for the sake of kinky sex. They want stories with emotional depth and characters that if you can't relate to them on a personal level, you can at the very least, understand what they're going through. As a reader, that's what I want anyway. Characters that even if I can't relate to them I can understand the pain of what they're going through.

And you're right again, I can only think of about three or four who write erotica so well that when someone asks me who to read, I give their names.

Email me girl! If our lists aren't the same, we'll probably at least mention a book or two that's at the top of the genre.

For me what make a book erotic is the interaction between the two main characters and how it's written. Dialogue can be used to create scene that are of a sensual nature and h/h never get horizontal. Erotic can be a look, a feather like touch, or just being near that person.

Brenda...I agree with you 150%.

Eugenia...Great! I'm checking it now.

Wow, go away from this group for seven hours and this is what you guys get into. LOL.

I don't think any erotic writer, even the bad ones are writing kinky sex for the sake of it. I think every writer even a bad one, believes they are producing something worth reading.

In my humble opinion what makes a book erotic is the words used to describe intimate actions. Some writers describe sex in a poetic fashion, some write raunchy.

Jo said: ...what makes a book erotic is the words used to describe intimate actions. Some writers describe sex in a poetic fashion, some write raunchy.

To a point, I couldn't agree more. For me, it's often perfectly descriptive wording that rivets me during intimate scenes. Then again, I can think of one erotic author whose 'raunch' is so well timed that you spend countless minutes squealing and palm slapping your forehead before you realize your family is eyeballing you like you've lost the last good piece of your mind.

Sweet: he rubs her back
Erotic: he gives her a sensual body massage

Sweet: he cooks her dinner
Erotic: he feeds her dinner

Sweet: she wears his shirt
Erotic: she tears off his shirt

Y'all's turn. Go.

**raising hand, jumping up and down**

Sweet: she looks into his eyes shyly.
Erotic: "Look at me!" he demands in a husky whisper.

Sweet: he watches her tuck a stray curl behind her ear
Erotic: he combines a stray curl with the rest of her hair as he grips the base of her neck.

Sweet: Smiling, he takes a sip of wine after her witty retort.
Erotic: She pulls the glass from his fingers and, holding his stare, places her lips directly over the imprint of his on the glass.

oops...mine are kinda long**

Next!

Mimi wrote: "Eugenia said: ...kinky sex is great but kinky sex with no story, no depth is just boring and I've gotten bored with that kind of erotica.

Same here!

Last year I had the pleasure of attending the ..."