Q&A (and brownies) with J.J. Murray discussion

While going through some boxes, I found a collection of writing magazines and books. I also have some tips and How-to articles.
The question is how do you feel, when you read a book and see a do-or-die rule by another author broken by the one you are currently reading. Does it affect your writing?

I don't let rule-breaking books/authors effect my writing.

But what I do consider while reading that "Rule-breaking book" is whether or not those broken rules were a good thing for the book or not. As long as the "rule" isn't a mechanical one, I'm usually fine.

I simply learn from them what I can and move on. Of course, sometimes what I learn is to never do what they did. I do get annoyed with those that love to regularly break the rules against head-hopping. It leaves my head spinning as I attempt to figure out who's pov I'm supposed to be in at the moment.

I'm really more concerned with those aspiring authors that weren't aware of the rules in the first place emulating the writing of "Rule-Breakers". Too often they aren't aware of why the rules were created and why newbie that they are, they shouldn't attempt to break them.

I think it's important for writers to learn the rules, so that when they break them, it's for good reason to serve the story. If a writer clearly doesn't understand what makes good quality writing, it makes for a bad reading experience. On the other hand, a skilled writer can go outside of the box, and leave her readers begging for more.

Also, I think different genres have different rules. I admit I am a bit of a stickler for following rules to a particular genre, unless the author can do it so well that I'm impressed.

POV and correct tense are crucial.

I have read books with a first person narrator who became third person omniscient who bounced into second person ("You" this and that) and finally arrived back at first person. Split personalities are fine provided that the book is about split personalities. I have read first person narratives where I got to read the thoughts of other characters.

Evidently, the narrator had ESP.

I have also read books with horrific tense shifts. I wasn't sure whether I was in the past, present, or future as I read it.

Stick to a POV and a tense, or your reader will be SOL and tense.

Everyone made good points. However can being OCD about the rules stunt creativity?

Be creative as you are (and can be) during the first draft. Go nuts. Lose it and loose words. Wild out. (You get the idea).

Then painstakingly on your second, third, fourth ... drafts, craft all that creativity into gold. Writing is a craft. Think of it this way:

You all remember the pottery making scene from Ghost. They made a beautiful mess (and one of cinema's most remembered scenes). For that mess to sell, however, they need to carve it, shape it, mold it--turn it into art.

And that, my friends, is writing. Make a beautiful mess ... and then turn it into art.

JJ, I obviously agree with you. But you know what? As I read your response about going nuts on your first draft and crating when it comes to your 2nd-3rd, etc drafts, I remembered the one "Rule" that I think every author should adhere to and when they don't it shows no matter how clever they are.

They should read their genre or books written in a style similar to their own.

I frequently come across people who want to write, but don't have time to read anything.

Or worse yet, they don't read anything remotely similiar to what they write.

I've been asking one person especially to read more books written in first person only to get a ton of silence or a "I've never heard of JJ Murray, Janet Evanovich or Monica Jackson."

I don't think some realize how telling it is when they don't read enough. A great imagination is wonderful and the ability to put it all on paper is a gift from above. But not being willing to study and research what makes your gift unique annoys me beyond belief. Especially when I'm the person that's reading your writing later and I can tell that you've never studied due to pov shifts, problems with verbage, jumping the genre shark and on and on it goes.

*sigh*

Sorry y'all....I just like reading and writing too much to disrespect my crit partners or future readers to assume that they don't know better or care that I didn't study my craft before putting my art out there. The only thing worse in my mind is submitting to a publisher without reading any of their books.

When I started sending out Renee and Jay in 1998, IR romance was fairly new. I had only Sandra Kitt's The Color of Love for a comparison.

I wrote first to her agent, who took the time to critique my first few chapters--and wish me well.

I wrote then to Penguin, Kitt's publisher, which was a waste of time since it only dealt with "agented authors." (Hint: Get an agent.)

Two years later, after contacting just about every agent on the East Coast, I received two "hits" from agents. The first we won't talk about. He was evil. The second (Evan Marshall) has been my agent since 2000, and he has been wonderful. I am fortunate to have a publisher (Kensington) which is willing to take risks.

BTW: I have now "sold" 100,000+ books since 2001 (yippee!), but I wouldn't have sold a single book if I didn't follow most of the rules.

Major congrats on having sold over 100,000 books!

As much as I hate to say this, most up and coming authors don't appear to want to try and get an agent. E-publishers and self-publishing have made it too easy for them to tack on the phrase, "Published Author" or "Best Selling Author" to their name.

For many of them having to deal with another person's opinion, even if that person does know all the ends and outs of the industry is more than they want to hear.

I'm amazed at the number of people who are willing to break the rules, but fear rejection.

If you have the time, check out Paul Zindel's The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man-in-the-Moon Marigolds. (Zindel also wrote the Pigman books). It is a short, tragi-sweet play where a character--Beatrice--has a drawer stuffed full of writing that just sits there because she is, among other things, afraid of rejection.

She's also crazy as a loon, but that's another story.

Yes, I agree that anyone can be published these days. I self-pubbed the sequel to Renee and Jay, and I met some resistance from book stores. But once they realized that I had already been published by a so-called "real" publisher, they gladly took the 60/40 split (in their favor, of course).

I just wish self-pubbed people, especially in the IR genre, would at least get some impartial eyes on their work prior to having InstantPublishing.com (or whoever) crank 'em out.

And if you have a good set of impartial eyes in your life, hold onto those eyes (and the person, of course) dearly. And take 'em out to dinner whenever you can.

I married mine, so there.

I remember I used to be to hoard my stories like precious jems. No body was allowed to see or read them. I wouldn't even talk about them to anyone. The fear was that I was writing crap. It can feel like your heart is being pulled out of your chest when you show someone a thing you value and they call it crap.

I have since moved on, from that fear, however there is still a kernel of it when ever I give my writing to anyone for review. E-publishing and self-publishing may seem like a cop-out but the struggle to get the industry to look at an up and coming writer is daunting. Especially when they are only looking at dollar signs.

Sometimes unpublished writers forget that along with honing the craft, we also should think about promoting and the market as well.

J.J. wrote: "When I started sending out Renee and Jay in 1998, IR romance was fairly new. I had only Sandra Kitt's The Color of Love for a comparison.

I wrote first to her agent, who took the time to critique..."

I think the color of Love was my first IR book as well. But I didn't consider writing a romance novel until Significant Others.

Hi people. Sorry to revisit an old topic but I am struggling with this as I work on my own story and was grateful when I saw this discussion:

JJ Wrote:
POV and correct tense are crucial.

I I have read first person narratives where I got to read the thoughts of other characters.

Evidently, the narrator had ESP.

Question for group:

So you're writing using a first-person narrator. They use adjectives and adverbs (not too many) to describe what they think the other characters are feeling or thinking. How do you do this without letting the "narrator have ESP?"

For ex:

"Hi, babe, I didn't know you were here."

"Marie? What are you doing home?"

He stood there, appalled. Clearly my husband was surprised to see me.

I know, I know, show don't tell. But let's use this 'cause I can't think of anything else. Is this wrong? What if the husband sounds "surprised" or had an "appalled" expression on his face?

What are "the rules" for a first-person narrator to properly describe what they hear, see, perceive etc. in other characters?

He stood there looking hateful as always, his weak-ass mustache sticking up into his nostrils, his eyes wide and flaming hot. Why isn't he ever happy to see me?

And then I heard her voice calling to him from our bedroom. "Sweetie? Baby girl gettin' cold."

So I shot him.

Hated that mustache anyway.

"Sweetie? Are you all right?"

Yeah. He's all right. And so am I for the first time in my life ...

LOL thanks...that's just because you're JJ Murray.

Show off.

Oh wait. Did I say that out loud?

Okay, so what I believe you're saying is we must add those verbs that indicate the narrator is perceiving something. Narrator should also describe for the reader what he/she sees. "He looked hateful" vs. "He had a hateful look on his face." Am I right?

Thanks for clarification on the "rule."

After reading this I keep hearing "He had it coming," from Broadway Hit Chicago.