Fans of British Writers discussion

We've mentioned various British writers of fantasy (which I'm defining here as fiction set in a make- believe world in which magic operates --other people, of course, might have other definitions!) on our other threads. Since this genre has a long tradition in British literature, I thought a fantasy-focused thread might be in order.

In the Western tradition, ideas of magical fantasy worlds could derive from a long substratum of folklore and mythology. Celtic and Germanic peoples have always held folk beliefs in Faerie, or the Otherworld. Norse and classical mythology are filled with strange creatures and magical and miraculous things happening in places unrelated to and unknown in the geography of the Renaissance world, where the tradition of literary fiction began to take shape. And the medieval poets who worked the legends of King Arthur into poetic epics read contemporary notions of magic, and high medieval material and social culture, back into the world of 6th-century Britain, creating a fantasy world that never existed in reality.

Sir Thomas Malory drew directly on the latter heritage to write the first prose novel, and also the first prose Arthurian fantasy, in English near the end of the 15th century: Morte d'Arthur. The Faerie Queen, Edmund Spenser's unfinished Elizabethean epic, though it's poetry, mined the same territory; and both of these works influenced later fantasy writings.

The Romantic period, with its fascination for folk life and for the medieval past, its focus on exotic settings and situations, and its central concern with the emotional rather than the rational, was open to a literature of the magical and of other realms. By the Victorian period (the fiction of which was still dominated by Romantic principles), a developing fantasy tradition was taking shape, well represented by the writers showcased in the Tales Before Tolkien anthology (which I've reviewed here on Goodreads). The three most important pre-Tolkien fantasists in British letters are George MacDonald, William Morris, and Lord Dunsany; I can recommend, by each one of the three in order, Phantastes, The Wood Beyond the World, and The King of Elfland's Daughter.

With his monumental Lord of the Rings saga (and its precursor, The Hobbit), J. R. R. Tolkien really popularized the fantasy genre in the first part of the 20th century, and set the patterns for much of the English-language fantasy that followed. His contemporary and fellow Inkling, C. S. Lewis, in his Narnia series, created a fantasy corpus almost as well known; and both continue to be read today. (The relative merits of the two as fantasists might be one of many topics group members might want to discuss on this thread!)

Like its American counterpart, British fantasy really flowered in the later 20th century, and the tradition continues to be strong today. Two of the many good writers in this period (and two whose work I've read some of! :-)) are Stephen Lawhead, a significant figure in Celtic-based fantasy, and Terry Pratchett, who may be Britain's foremost master of humorous fantasy. This is a thread for discussing any and all of the above writers, and any others in this field!

Anyone who's read much I've written here will know that I love fantasy lit. Of course Tolkien is the "high water mark".

Okay disagree if you like...but I'm right:)....or possibly I'm correct. Ah well, I digress.

Tolkien's work is pretty much what all fantasy since is compared to. He and Lewis were heavily influenced by classical sources including many schools of mythology (note Lewis's Till We Have Faces). But the most mythological influence was probably Norse.

Allow me to digress again, please. As a Kid I love to read (as is probably true for many of us here) but often there weren't a lot of books around. I would read old school books at my grandparent's house if I couldn't find anything else (although I tried not to think about them being "school books"...OOOOWWWW). I found also that I preferred the Norse legends to Greek and Roman.

So, anyway (again) when I stumbled across Tolkien my whole world opened up and I haven't looked back since. It was some time after that that I found another of my favorites C. S. Lewis. I've since read many writers old and new and find that my taste in fantasy (while being my own) seems to be quite eclectic.

You mentioned George MacDonald (another of my favorite novels is his Lilith), he was a big influence on Lewis. Have you read any of Charles Williams' work? Lewis loved some of it and was instrumental in introducing him (Williams) to the Inklings. His work would be I think described as "esoteric" but I like a lot of it.

Okay...I'll stop now and let someone else chime in. :)

Mike wrote, " I found also that I preferred the Norse legends to Greek and Roman."

I completely agree. I didn't discover Norse mythology until I became a children's librarian and read a 5th grade version of the Norse myths. Even as an adult I wept at the blinding of 'Balder the beautiful.'

The children's collection also led me to George MacDonald, through The Princess and Curdie and eventually to Lilith. I still haven't read any Charles Williams - what would you suggest for a place to start?

That's a little difficult as it depends on the person, his work while holding to somewhat common themes (there's even a common thread but I found it to be fairly deeply buried) can vary greatly from book to book. The first I read was The Place of the Lion and it is (as I observed) fairly esoteric. I think the most straight forward interesting and enjoyable (for me) was All Hallows Eve. I found I couldn't really get into Descent Into Hell, mostly I think because of the setting (but in the end I loved the story idea and where it went...odd), others love the story and it's setting in a play overall....so, I suppose I'd recommend All Hallows Eve, but that's me.

Of course...in the end you may find you like one of his other works more than any I've mentioned :).


Was that clear as the proverbial mud? :) I think you'll see what I mean when you try him. Williams is very much unique in his style. I suppose that may be one reason Lewis liked his work so well.

Thanks, Mike. I just ordered All Hallows' Eve from Amazon.

Hope you like it....really. :)

Peg wrote: "Mike wrote, " I found also that I preferred the Norse legends to Greek and Roman."

I completely agree. I didn't discover Norse mythology until I became a children's librarian and read a 5th grade..."

I also prefer Norse mythology. I think they called it Hel with no double LL. I cannot read about that tho as it scares me too much. I was raised on hell fire and brimstome. Peg, I also picked up a children's book somewhere with the basics about Norse mythology. It had a drawing of the big tree that goes up and down with 9 levels if I remember right.

My only experience with Charles Williams' work so far has been one of his short stories, which I read just this past May --and found disappointing. However, I've had his War in Heaven (a novel about a modern-day search for the Holy Grail) on my to-read list forever!

I think if you look up esoteric in the dictionary they have a picture of Williams... (well, not really). I like William's work (on the whole). The first one I read was The Place of the Lion, talk about weird, but it hooked me in.

I own the entire series brand new of J. R. R. Tolkien (Lord Of The Rings) and I am wondering if his long descriptive passages is worth reading through for the greater good of a fantastic fantasy story? Thoughts anyone?

It depends on you. The prose is a plus for some of us. It's possible to skim a little and skip the poetry, songs and such if you like and still get the story. It depends a bit on how deeply you want to immerse yourself in the story. I feel like you'll miss a lot, but I suppose a lot may be taste. The Lord of the Rings is the standard for fantasy stories for a reason though. It's a great story/book/epic, etc.

Thanks Mike, makes sense. I really do not skip anything while reading a book. Since Steve Erickson's Malazan Empire series is very intricate pertaining to the number of characters and subplots, I do not see why I should not read The Lord Of The Rings. They are legendary novels. How would you compare the movies? Close adaptations of the novels?

I'll try not to do too much of the the "nerd" (or is it geek? I can never keep whether I'm a nerd or a geek straight...LOL) stuff. You know about what I'm disappointed with. The LotR movies aren't too bad, there are things that a lot of us are disappointed with (things changed, things left out etc.) but to be fair Jackson tried to be fairly true to the overall story (which of course begs the question about things changed and things added. If you cut something for time, then why add something that was never in the novels?) I enjoy the movies, but in some places have to think of it as 2 separate stories that happen to have the same name. LOL

Very Insightful Mike, Unfortunately the movie versions of books rarely follow closely. There are some notable exceptions. Feel free to be a "nerd" or a "geek". When one is older those words are a complement and is the underlying meaning of being referred to as "eccentric" which my life long friends call me.

Thank you...like I said, I can just never remember which is which...LOL.

Mike wrote: "Thank you...like I said, I can just never remember which is which...LOL."

Me either altho I do recall my son said he was a Geek when he was at the Academy. It bugged him a little. He was a computer science major for awhile. I really like eccentric.

I don't think I have enough money to be an eccentric.... (picture me looking wide eyed, innocent and possibly a bit bewildered.)

"Nerd" and "geek" are synonyms, I think. I'm both, I guess, but like Mike, I'm not rich enough to be eccentric. :-)

For what it's worth, I'd rate the LOTR movies pretty highly for accuracy, compared to many adaptations. But as Mike noted, there are a few differences, mainly in that Arwen's and Eowyn's roles are expanded in the movie, compared to the book. And there are changes inherent in the different and more visual art form and the limitations of the time frame (though at least the producers made the three books into three movies, rather than trying to compress them all into one). But I didn't find any of the changes so drastic that I thought the writers were telling a wholly different story (and believe me, I've thought that with a LOT of movie "adaptations," that's exactly what they were doing!).

I do agree. Compared to the normal movie made from book form the LotR movies get a very high grade. There are other places where we've aired our pet peeves (I really hated the way Elrond was portrayed)...but they were relatively true to the "the story".

Werner wrote: ""Nerd" and "geek" are synonyms, I think. I'm both, I guess, but like Mike, I'm not rich enough to be eccentric. :-)

Telling a different story! That is certainly what they did with Charlaine Harris book with Sookie the telepath but of course Charlaine is an American author so I better shortly delete this comment as OT.

Mike wrote: "I don't think I have enough money to be an eccentric.... (picture me looking wide eyed, innocent and possibly a bit bewildered.)"

LOL! that is what my hubby always tells me too! But IMO the rules are made to be broken, right? So you can be what you want to be. Also wide eyed, innocent and completely befuddled which is my normal state.

I could be A LOT more eccentric if I did not have a meager budget. I agree 100%! If money was not an obstacle I would be doing archaeological digs, searching shipwrecks, too many to list. Happy I discovered goodreads though!

Nah, Alice, you don't have to delete your comment as "off topic!" Various lines of discussion can suggest all kinds of tangents; I'd rather have active discussion than have people worrying too greatly about topic appropriateness. :-)

Werner wrote: "Nah, Alice, you don't have to delete your comment as "off topic!" Various lines of discussion can suggest all kinds of tangents; I'd rather have active discussion than have people worrying too gre..."

Thanks Werner as sometimes I forget to delete my silly comments. I am searching for your review when I saw your reply and remembered to click on it. My ordeal with goodreads glitches appears to be mostly over but not totally. Have a fun weekend.

altought it has been 6 years since anyone wrote a comment here I want to share with you my love of HARRY POTTER. it's my favorit series ever , eache time I reread harry potter the same idea occurs to me : what a wonderful kind J.K ROWLING has ❤

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Ayah, I agree with you 100%

Have you read the fantasy books of Jonathan Stroud? They are a lot of fun, with lots of magic and an amazing and funny genie.

Wow, it has been quite a while since anyone's commented on this thread (until today)!

I'm also a big fan of the Harry Potter series! Rosemarie, I think the series by Jonathan Stroud that you're referring to is his Bartimaeus series. Although I haven't read any of those books myself, I gave five stars to the first novel in his Lockwood and Co. series, The Screaming Staircase. That's a series that I definitely intend to follow.

I am referring to Bartimaeus. I was called in for jury duty when The Amulet of Samarkand was first released. I read the book from beginning to end on the first day. Luckliy, I was only required to show up two more times, and they let us leave at noon on Friday. In this series those who practice magic are not very nice, and some humans without powers have formed an underground resistance movement.

good morning Rosemarie . No I hav'nt yet but I heard a lot about it . I'll put it in my to read list cz I really live fantasy

love*

Not sure if others would agree, but for me no survey of British fantasy writers can be complete without at least a name check being given to David Gemmell. If you love heroic fantasy and have yet to discover him, you have a real adventure in reading to look forward to.

I've never read any of David Gemmell's books myself (yet!), but one of my Goodreads friends is an enthusiastic fan of his work, and also recommends it very highly.

so now I have two more authors to know . thank you good readers

Gemmell is one of those authors you hear about and consider then never quite get around to reading. Until the day you finally do - and then you wonder why you waited so long. Just sad he died in his 50s when he could have written many more great books.

Ayah wrote: "so now I have two more authors to know . thank you good readers"

Hope you enjoy discovering their books, Ayah! We'll look forward to hearing what you think.

E. M., based on your recommendation, and my friend Mike's, I've just added Legend (the first book of Gemmell's Drenai Saga) to my to-read shelf (Of course, that shelf has 399 books on it... but the book's a step closer to getting read!)

Legend is great - and you'll be glad to find it popping up at the top of your reading list when it eventually does. It is well worth waiting for.

Hope you find it well worth the time to enjoy one of his books too, Ayah.

Point noted, E. M.! Before embarking on another long series, though, I want to finish some of the several series (14!) that I'm currently juggling. (Over the course of my reading life, I've read series openers with merry abandon, but often not been very faithful about following them up, even when I'd like to read more of them; a couple of years ago, I realized that in the latter cases, I need to start getting more serious and intentional about following through, and not being just a dabbler here and there.)

I am glad that I am not the only one who has that problem. Nowadays, I love it when I find an old - new to me - series I can read through nose to tail.

I read the Gemmell series years ago and then got side- tracked onto mysteries, for about ten years. Now I read just about everything, and it is time to revisit Gemmell. His fantasies have more depth and character development than some of the more recent fantasies out there.

Werner, I know what you mean about series. Some of them start well and then fizzle out. Others are good to begin with and then become addictive!

Werner wrote: "Point noted, E. M.! Before embarking on another long series, though, I want to finish some of the several series (14!) that I'm currently juggling. (Over the course of my reading life, I've read se..."

I get a reading tummyache if I try to read too many in a series at once. The writer had gaps between writing the individual books in the series, and the reader needs some, too. Although I do remember binge reading Volume 1 (of a 2-volume set) of the complete Sherlock Holmes when I was a kid.

If a writer has died, it is easier to pace oneself - there will be time to catch up. If a writer is still with us, we may feel we have to get up-to-date before the next book comes out. Never enough time!

I don't think I've ever read a book by Gemmell that I didn't like. he's a long time favorite of mine.

C.S. Lewis and E. Nesbit have written fantasy books for children that can be enjoyed by readers of all ages. Lewis is famous for The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe series, but also wrote Out of the Silent Planet / Perelandra / That Hideous Strength which are aimed at older readers.
Nesbit is famous for Five Children and It, The Phoenix and the Carpet, and The Story of the Amulet.

Children's fantasy in Britain has a long history too as I'm sure everyone knows - from Lewis Carroll and Charles Kingsley right through to J.K. Rowling and Philip Pullman. And, of course, The Hobbit was originally written for children.

The feelings and events in childhood have a very significant influence especially when it comes to art. I read about Tolkien, he was born in Africa but came to England as a young boy. The british nature must have been a profound contrast. There are emotions from childhood times strong enough to inspire one making artworks through the whole life.

Patrick Ness is American-born (Virginia), but he now lives in London. So he certainly has a British connection, at the very least!

Oh my, I couldn't believe you noted Le Morte d'Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory. I am the proud possessor of a copy of the Winchester College edition, The Works of Thomas Malory, written in 15th century English. I struggled though this edition many years ago and loved every bit of it. I don't think I really ever thought of this as fantasy because I am a romantic and the Arthurian Legend and Knights of the Round Table has always seemed to me to be a real possibility.

Karen, if anyone is going to give a thumbnail sketch of the history of British fantasy, Malory's Morte d'Arthur is pretty much THE place to start --I wouldn't be able to believe it if someone purported to discuss the genre and ignored that classic! I haven't read it myself yet (maybe someday!), but I'm totally aware of its importance.

Personally, I believe Arthur WAS a real 6th-century British king. At the time when he lived, though, the culture would have been a lot more primitive than it had become centuries later. Plate-armored knights competing in jousts and subscribing to elaborate codes of chivalry were a phenomenon of the high Middle Ages, which writers from that time read back into the Arthurian era.