Science and Inquiry discussion

I'll start taking nominations now for the August poll which will begin one day later than planned on July 1.

The nominations so far are the diverse set used in the July poll. Get your thinking caps on fast to add another for the August poll. Taking nominations through midnight tomorrow night.

The poll is up for August-please get your vote in, the poll closes on July 7!

OOoops. It's not midnight yet, I hope I didn't cut anyone off . . .

August Poll winner is Ravens in Winter.

Who is planning on reading this book in August? I will be re-reading--it has been 20 years since I read it.

I just put Ravens in Winter on hold at my library. Be careful because there is a copy in the Elementary section of the Children's Library with the same author. I assume we are reading the version in the adult section :-)

There is a children's book named Ravens in Winter? Well . . . yes, we are reading the adult book.

yeah, it had me a bit confused! I put on hold the second link...

in children's library: http://www.chipublib.org/search/detai...

in adult library: http://www.chipublib.org/search/detai...

I think they are the same book. To have it shelved in the childrens section seems an error.

yeah, it says something about references being on page 337 which seems hefty for elementary school!

this book is hard to find!!!
it's not available at borders or barns & noble and my library system doesn't have it either!!! yikes.

What about used copies online?

a quick amazon search showed there are some copies for about $5

Barnes and Noble sells the book new, for only $387.45 Here is the link:
paperback version

But Amazon sells it for only $140.89. What a bargain!

I found the book at the library. I had it in the back seat of my car, when one of the guys in my carpool noticed it, and asked me what the book was about. He was rather surprised, when I told him that it is about ravens in the wintertime. (He was also interested, since he is a birdwatcher.)

I've started re-reading Ravens in Winter. Its been many years. This is going to be a great read for the hottest part of summer as the study takes place during winter time snow, cold, ice, wind . . .

Is anybody else reading this book?

I found this book to be quite different from any other science book. Other science books are filled with "answers". They gradually build up, through narration, a better understanding of the subject matter, and don't ever "keep you hanging". This book keeps you hanging--it's really about "the process" of doing science, and much less about "the answers". And that's what science is all about, really--"the process." While I was always curious about "the answers", I never skipped to the end of the book--probably because it was like a detective mystery. When you read a detective mystery, you don't want to skip to the end; you want to observe clues--sometimes subtle, hidden clues--and try to work it out for yourself. And this book's strong point, is that it gives the reader an opportunity to do just that--to "figure it out". There is no jargon to learn, no special concepts to master. Any reader can follow along, consider the clues, and guess at "the answer".

Wow!

I have the book! I am heading for a week on the beach on Sunday so I'll hopefully I'll finish it then! Sounds like a good read.

I'm trying to get my hands on the book...I've decided to read "the Mind of the Raven" in the meantime b/c it's the same author, but the library system is working on bringing to book to town! I'm bummed to be on the outs again this month, BUT on the plus side I discovered how awesome the state's interlibrary loan and digital library consortium are...yet again I find new reasons to love the library!

Salvatrice wrote: "...yet again I find new reasons to love the library! "

Hmmm...I thought I loved the library, too. I just returned "Ravens in Winter", along with five other books to the library. But, the library claims that I did not return it! (I have since checked the shelves--the book has not been reshelved, at least, not in the proper place.) This has never happened to me before. The library has put a return claim in, which means they will "look" for the book for the next 120 days. Has this ever happened to somebody else?

This happened to me one time, but they found the book on the shelf...

Mind of the Raven is AWESOME! I suspect that Ravens in Winter is very similar as this seems to be an expansion of the earlier book. The writing style is smooth and I've totally gotten into the field experiments!

David wrote: "Salvatrice wrote: "...yet again I find new reasons to love the library! "

Hmmm...I thought I loved the library, too. I just returned "Ravens in Winter", along with five other books to the library...."

twice, once it was on the shelves and the other time it was under the front seat of my car.

Here is what I find most interesting about Ravens in Winter. In the beginning of the book, the author spent very long periods making careful observations of the comings and goings of ravens. He put out food for the ravens in various locations, and did his best to correlate his observations with different hypotheses. With this approach, unfortunately, he could not make specific conclusions. He had a mass of data, but no useful analysis to figure out what was happening.

But then, he decided it would be useful to tag a set of ravens. He realized that tagging would be difficult; in fact, before he began his observations, he thought it would be difficult merely to sight ravens, let alone to capture and tag them. But one of his colleagues, in fact, said that he must tag them, in order to make any progress. And that turned out to be quite true. The analyses progressed by leaps and bounds after he started tagging the ravens. (He also attached radios to two ravens, but makes no mention of any useful results from them.)

This is a general theme in science. Progress is made very soon after a new observation "technology" is put in place. Now, tagging is not a very high-tech thing, but it was, for Heinrich, a new observational technique that was rather difficult to implement. Once in place, there was an avalanche of useful information that helped to put his hypotheses in order. Later in the book, the giant cage was another observational technique that proved to be very useful.

In the Afterword of Mind of the Raven, Heinrich says "this book continues where [Ravens in Winter:] left off" if you're enjoying Ravens in Winter, I strongly reccommend picking up Mind of the Raven too.
The chapter on Merlin ("Ravens in the Family") is absolutly charming!

David wrote: "Here is what I find most interesting about Ravens in Winter. In the beginning of the book, the author spent very long periods making careful observations of the comings and goings of ravens. He put..."

Your summary is spot on, David. The book is a little gem for delineating the drudgery, the determination, and the rigor involved in doing this kind of field research. The author had to overcome so much confusion and frustration, and it was his ability to consider other methodologies and competing hypotheses, that--in the end--saved him and the project. I came away with enormous respect for this man and for what he accomplished. His love for his subjects and for the beautiful country he so lovingly described was inspiring.

Here is an interesting video about Bernd Heinrich and ravens on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8L4KN...

This photograph of a raven riding on a vulture is amazing:
http://i.imgur.com/fLbNu.jpg
The photo is one of a couple by a Spanish nature photographer:
http://www.larred.es/
and there is much debate on the web, on whether the photograph has been "doctored".