Q&A (and brownies) with J.J. Murray discussion

How do you outline your work?

I'm pretty linear and old school, so I start at the beginning and plod along throwing tangents left and right. If my plot were laid out left to right (west to east), it would look like a series of wavy lines (where the characters intersect) and "barbs" like arrow feathers shooting up and down. Eventually the wavy lines come together/fuse, the tangents take a nap, and I have an outline.

I also use Post-its to death. They're easy to move around on a wall. I have no art in front of me, just fluttering yellow and orange Post-its.

I once saw an outline for an "action romance" that was a series of concentric circles. The outer rings were devoted to back story and their first meeting. As the rings descended to the center, there was more action/dialogue/suspense/CONTACT--and bigger and bigger moments--until the climax at the very center. The actual novel started out leisurely (the outer rings) and sped up gradually to a thrilling (and satisfying) climax.

I saw another romance outline (hard to explain, but I'll try) that used semicircles like a skipping stone on a pond. The first "skips" had large gaps to fill with back story, general character development, and casual encounters. As the "skips" shortened, the plot raced until the smooth ending that tied up the entire "circle" of the novel, like a splash at the end.

So ... how do you get your work organized?

I am not an outline expert. Outlines used to annoy me in the past. I used to think I didn't need them to write a story. I have recently changed my opinion on that.
However, I tried to do an overall start to finish outline but get stuck. I do write scene/chapter outlines for my stories. I am also a note-queen or should I say list. I write a list about things I want to include in my story, for example the excerpt I posted on the other topic, has the most extensive list I have ever written for a story, many started on a post-it.

1. Lycanthropes are born and werewolves are turned they are different.

2. Ailuranthorpes are cat shape-shifters;

3. Therianthropes are ailuranthope and lycanthrope
hybrids.

4. Note all humans can be turned into werewolves or werecats.

It looks like that.

Ha! I write outlines. The problem is sticking to them. I start out with an outline to flesh out the characters I see. Next, I create a bulleted list of summaries for each chapter. After that, I'll devote a full page or two to each chapter. On these separate pages, I write out notes about scenery, characters, conflicts, questions to consider, etc.

Then as I write it out, I find myself going beyond what I had outlined anyway. Sometimes it ends up in a different direction. I have recently learned the value of sticking to an outline in order to avoid such things as overwriting.

Sometimes that can happen in a story. I don't think veering of the path of your outline is horrible. It can lead a writer to interesting places. I do like extensive character development.

I am convinced that deviations from an outline, those spur-of-the-moment tangents, are necessary for your growth as a writer.

The average outline contains the "bullet" (I am an ER fan) or general drift and subject of the novel. As you're writing, you deflect that bullet in different, new, and hopefully better directions than you originally intended based on what you are writing at the moment. In other words, the novel you are writing takes on a life of its own away from your outline.

Am I saying not to outline? Of course not. An outline is a tool, but sometimes even the finest tools need recalibration.

I wonder if that should be another discussion topic. Uncooperative characters? As writers we have all been faced with them.
In one of my recovery stories, I wanted my characters a happily married couple to have a problem that didn't involve a blatant affair. I tried everything to dissuade the character from that type of relationship, when that happened the story stopped I couldn't work on it. So I guess my question is has anyone every ignored their characters and wrote a better story?

I agree with the last two posts. Sometimes I feel like it's the characters' world and I am just visiting. As the writer, should I be feeling this way?

I also have the tendency to do what the characters want to do. I think the outcome could go either way. Right now, I'm having trouble ignoring my character's need to share all of her thoughts, her feelings, her backstory, her ideas...and I learned recently that this caused overwriting and too many gaps between dialogue and action. Based on my original outline, this was not supposed to happen but it took on a mind of its own. As I revise this story, I find it difficult to limit this character but it must be done to make the story smoother, leaner, and more quickly-paced. Having said that, I do find it almost nerve-wracking to limit the characters (in thought or action).

Currently, I'm going with "threads" as an outlining technique.

Odd chapters are her "threads," and even chapters are his "threads." I used this method until around chapter 20 of True to the Game when the "threads" intertwined for the first time. Then they shot off and connected for the rest of the novel.

In what I'm writing now, I'm finding it so easy to use this method. Her "thread" is 3,000+ miles away (LA) from his (NYC) right now, and the fun (I do have fun) is to connect her thread to his in style.

This method allows me to knock out that dreaded back story quickly and get to the good stuff.

The process:

Plan out thread A only and take it as far as you can. Kind of like creating a parallel universe focused on one character/being.

Then plan out thread B only and take it as far as you can, again focused on one character/being.

If, for example, you're writing good vs. evil, plan out each thread until good and evil collide. Several crime authors I've read start out with the evil thread (to get my attention) then weave the good thread in and out (or vice versa). You get me?

It's like creating a tapestry. The novel is the finished tapestry, and all these threads eventually create the whole.

And hopefully I can tie up all the loose ends/threads by the end of the book.

I've read start out with the evil thread (to get my attention) then weave the good thread in and out (or vice versa). You get me?

Kinda but not quite yet.

Durn I don't even understand my own question but here it is: So thread A and B. Are they living the same experience but from their own points of view or are they living different experiences? Maybe I ain't reading it right. Okay like your characters Jack and Diane. Two different lives until they meet in the library. Are those examples of threads?

Sometimes the threads look at the same scene, but most of the time they don't. Too much rehashing of plot that way. It's kind of a torch passed from one character to the other. Here's a quick example:

Thread 1: Killer kills a clown.
Thread 2: Detective called to the scene.
Thread 3: Killer moves on to another circus.
Thread 4: Detective learns all he can about clown #1.
Thread 5: Killer angry that next circus is a flea circus, shoots cow.
Thread 6: Detective reminisces over his fear of clowns, seeks solace with his beautiful neighbor.
Thread 7: Killer goes to McDonald's, sees Ronald ...

Eventually ...

Thread 58: Detective chases killer, killer escapes in clown car ...
Thread 59: Detective again finds solace with beautiful neighbor who provides a clue
Thread 60: Killer heads to DC, the United States' biggest circus ...

Remember the old song "One Thing Leads to Another" by the Fixx? One scene leads to the other and so on throughout the novel. One thread ties into another until you have that tapestry.

Thanks. I learn with examples. That was a great example.

And I just listened to the song by the Fixx too. That was a baaaad example. LOL

Great tip to try out.

Didn't listened to the song, however the i.e. makes sense. I will try it and see where that takes me.

Do y'all think this threading idea can work with old works in rewriting process or best used for new works?

I think for the story I am working on it is adaptable. I am meeting my characters again. It is a special time for us. You know how it is.