Fantastic Fantasy and Science Fiction discussion

Books such as The Lord of the Rings are frequently classified as Epic Fantasy. I can think of several more that I feel meet the criteria of this genre such as "The Way of Shadows", "The Chronicles of the Necromancer", and Kusniel's Legacy series by Jac. Carey. Are there other books or series that you feel are a fit to this genre?

Epic fantasy to me is any series of books that has many likable characters, has a detailed map in the front or back of the book, and is a story where one or a group of characters has to rise above desperate circumstances to make a change in that world.

I agree with Lord of the Rings of course. Jacqueline Carey's series as well. Oddly enough, I have only read the first book. I think I'm still pouting because she killed a few characters I liked. ;-)

Ahh...just thought of a series to add...Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series. Love, love, love it. There are so many books to read...some are much better than others, but I love the world she created. Some of the books are epic and others are not.

I'm still figuring out the different genre's within fantasy and which I prefer.

To me epic fantasy would be a medieval fantasy world, 3 or more lengthy books, several strong lead characters and plots, and a fairly clear good vs evil overall theme.

As far as what I prefer, I'm not a big fan of LOTR, Shannara, or Wheel of Time which seem to be the big names in Epic Fantasy. However, I absolutely loved George RR Martin's SOIAF, Robin Hobb's Farseer, and Tad William's Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn series which I would certainly consider to be Epic Fantasy.

Epic Fantasy, IMO, is a book or series that spans an entire world (or a good part), consists of more than one group/race/family and usually involves travel in same world (thus "epic"). I have what I think is pretty good list of Epic Fantasy, all are series--I've only stated the Series names, but all of the books are on my booklist here on Goodreads. I cannot recommend them enough.

Shadows of the Apt - This will be 10 books, 5 of which are finished and they are blowing me away. One of the more original series that I've come across recently

Age of Misrule - This is a longer series, not sure how many in total. It took the first couple for the author to really get in stride, but I think he's on a roll by the third. Think of Robert Jordan and the Wheel of Time

Demon Trilogy - This one is still waiting for the 3rd book. I HIGHLY recommend it.

The Belgariad & Mallorean books - These were some of the first that I've read and will always remain some of my favs.

Blood of Kings - This one is also only at book 2, but is very good.

Have you read the "The Warded Man" and "Sword of Destiny"? If so, do you think perhaps they are epic. I have also been considering reading Blood of Kings but was concerned about how many books will make up the series. I have decided that three to four books is my limit on the epics.

jD wrote: "Have you read the "The Warded Man" and "Sword of Destiny"? If so, do you think perhaps they are epic. I have also been considering reading Blood of Kings but was concerned about how many books wi..."
The warded man, yes, it's one of the ones I mentioned above, but not Sword of Destiny. I tried Duncan a few years ago and he was a little too lad-lit for me. the Warded Man is epic at it's best

Jesslyn wrote: "Epic Fantasy, IMO, is a book or series that spans an entire world (or a good part), consists of more than one group/race/family and usually involves travel in same world (thus "epic")."

I agree with Jesslyn. I think there's a difference between epic fantasy, which has the wide span, and high fantasy, which is to me the medieval setting, sorcers, etc.

So, books that are high fantasy might belong in the epic fantasy category, but not necessarily. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire isn't really high fantasy to me because it doesn't have the focus on the magic/supernatural. It is certainly, however, epic.

I don't consider it fantasy if there is no magic at all, and some magic doesn't qualify. For instance the book Aztec (5 stars-highly recommended) has magic, but it is definitely NOT a fantasy-same with the Clan of the Cave Bear series, they're just fiction. The only reason GRRM, Song of Ice & Fire (over-rated IMO) makes it in is because the entire world is 'made-up', although I do think there was also some magic.

I usually feel cheated if a fantasy doesn't have specific and detailed magic either performed by or to some main characters.

I agree. I am reading "Game of Thrones" and have yet to have any magic in the traditional sense. The story is epic and has a made-up world. It is fantasy at it's best so far. However, I want the magic, a curse, or something that takes the story beyond human suffering.

You'll get some--You'll meet some dragons and some really creepy zombie-type-deals. Plus some witchcraft. But it's always in service to the story, not for its own sake, which is different from a lot of the more modern stuff I've been reading.

jD wrote: "I agree. I am reading "Game of Thrones" and have yet to have any magic in the traditional sense. The story is epic and has a made-up world. It is fantasy at it's best so far. However, I want th..."

Let me know what you think of the first book jD..I have the series..havent started...but heard its like a "soap opera" but very dark..any romance?

Definitely no romance. The word I'd use to describe it is "gritty." There is a huge cast of characters, it's based on the Wars of the Roses.

I liked the 1st book, but felt that it kind of went downhill with subsequent books. I may try re-reading them.

Are yall saying this book "Game of Thrones" is not a stand alone? Please tell me it does not end in a cliffhanger? I am 2/3 done.

heh. He is still writing the books. And it's taking forever.

don't get me started. This guy is almost as bad than Jean Auel and the Clan of the Cave bear series (which will get it's final book next year). The next book, #5 of the planned 7 in series has no release date. First book came out in 1996. Heavy sigh....
Can you tell I'm bitter?

:)

WHAT??? I thought it ended at A feast for Crows?? then he started a new series..no?

That's it! I am starting a folder called Spoilers Requested and I am starting the discussion with the "Song of Ice and Fire" series of which Game of Thrones is book 1. The second book is 1200 pages. From what I can tell, the reviews indicate its a tough read with lots of unnecessary scenes. Thank God HBO is making it a series next spring. I am pretty sure I will subscribe just to watch. That is going to be a big cast.

lol JD I understand. The SOIAF series is the reason I won't even start a book now unless the series is complete. As it stands, when he finally releases the next book, I'll have to reread the series. I would be more than happy to answer any of your questions, but I don't know if I will remember all (or any) of what you're looking for.

Thank you so very much. My main question is "does Joffery, the boy King, kill his mother"? She deserves to die for allowing him to kill Eddard. If not, does his mom kill him? I can work with either solution.

JD I sent you a message :-)

I just retrieved it and am going to read it as soon as my cell phone stops ringing. People...why do they bother us when we are in the middle of book business!

What comes after The Feast of Crows??

After reading the link you sent and the spoilers I found on some other sites, I am done with reading this series. I am going to wait on the HBO show next spring. Too many people die and it seems no one knows what happened to some of them. Book 5, the follow up to Feast of Crows is suppose to come out this fall.

Wish I would have waited to read this series....like I said, I won't ever again read a book where the entire series hasn't been published. Lesson learned.

Im with you on that Donna..but dont you find with fantasy series...the next book dosent come out sometimes for years? drives me nuts! so how do you know when you start one? and by that time..some are OP...what to do? :(

The next book is A Dance for Dragons or with Dragons or something like that.
I agree, it's annoying, and it's definitely not a happy series, but there is some really good stuff in it. You might try it again once it's (someday) finished.

As far as Fantasy book series, take a look at some of the great new writers on Orbit books. Many times they publish a trilogy within 6 months, with 1 or two month wait between books. I guess they get the whole thing done and approved before publishing the 1st one. A great way to go if you ask me.

Sandi, you have a point about some being oop. I'm still fairly new to reading fantasy but I basically check the authors website to see if they are still writing the series. There are some, like Anne Bishop who is still writing more stand alone books in the Black Jewels series, and thats fine, but the original trilogy was already complete when I read it.

For example, I haven't read Patrick Rothfuss' book Name of the Wind despite all of the great reviews because I want to wait until he's finished the series. I haven't read any of those long pnr series, some of them seem neverending. Although I have actually been considering trying a PNR book just to see if its something I would like.

But some of them Donna dont say on their website..here's a good example I read by Juliet Marillier the sevenwaters trilogy years ago...then just now she comes out with another to the series..I also find it hard when the author will write a "trilogy" then a second Trilogy" years apart but with the same characters...example..author Sara Douglass..geezz..I forgot the first 3!..I have to start again! I started to read Terry Goodkind's "sword of truth series" (it is so good!) got to book 4 & figured he's going to keep going so I stopped.FINALLY! at #10 he says he's done..so now III re-read. but how long can you wait?.. I start to geer towards single reads now....fed up with waiting :(

I heard that book name of the wind is good..how many does he plan?

Its supposed to be a trilogy,
Day One: The Name of the Wind (April 2007)
Day Two: The Wise Man's Fear (March 2011)
Day Three: The Doors of Stone (working title

I guess I don't really have a problem waiting because there are so many other books I want to read, so many other genres within fantasy that I want to try.

I read the Sevenwaters trilogy this year, loved it. I didn't know she was writing another one though. But even still, she didn't leave horrible cliffhangers that you then have to wait years to find out what happens. Thats really what I want to avoid. I didn't read the Harry Potter series until after the 6th one was written (and one of my friends finally bullied me into it) and I thought I would go crazy waiting for the 7th to be released lol. But the SOIAF series, I guess I'm just frustrated because it seems that the next book is NEVER going to be released, and as it is, I just about forgot half of what it was about and will have to re-read all of those books again lol. I should have just waited.

Sandi wrote: "But some of them Donna dont say on their website..here's a good example I read by Juliet Marillier the sevenwaters trilogy years ago...then just now she comes out with another to the series..I also..."

The Name of the Wind is a trilogy. The narrator's character is legendary and he has become a recluse. Someone finds him and ask for the truth of his tale which he agrees to tell him over a three day period. Book one is the first day. It's an excellent work but the guy who is writing the series seems to be having trouble with pulling off the rest of the book. Amazon refunded me the money I paid for an advanced purchase of "Wise Man's Fear" because the publisher missed so many dates. That was well over a year ago.

Donna wrote: "Its supposed to be a trilogy,
Day One: The Name of the Wind (April 2007)
Day Two: The Wise Man's Fear (March 2011)
Day Three: The Doors of Stone (working title

I guess I don't really have a proble..."

Donna,

Seven Waters is by far one of the best series I have ever read. I cried so many times. Those characters lives were filled with so much pain.

I tend to feel that to be 'epic' there has to be more at stake than the individual characters' lives and interests. Typically this seems to mean the fate of the world or at least a country.

Does "epic" necessarily mean it has to be a series? Can it also be stand-alone? For example, my young adult fantasy novel Wind and Fire is a stand-alone book, but it contains what I consider to be "epic" elements, i.e. a world threatened by evil, a perilous journey, lots of magic and action, strong or mystical characters that move the plot along, etc. There are a lot of fantastic series out there, and I've read quite a few, but I enjoy the stand-alone books as well.

Hi, Cheryl!

I think it can be stand-alone, but that is more rare. For example, Gone With the Wind is one major example of a single-book epic. But, particularly in fantasy where the world-building is so important, I do think length and scope are important elements of what makes an epic an epic.

Hi, Siobhan:

That is true. Because it's usually a brand-new world that no one has ever seen before, it's important to build it properly. Sometimes, that means breaking the fantasy up into several books, unless you want a single book that's 2,000 pages long! Although, sometimes, I do think an epic can go on for too long. For example, I thought the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind was excellent when I read the first three or four books and then I found I didn't enjoy the next ones quite as much. I thought the series could have easily ended well before then and I would have been satisfied.

And, as others have commented, it's difficult to wait for the next book in a series if it hasn't already been published by the time you finish the first one.

Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erickson. Probably one of the best epic fantasy series I've ever read.
As for Song of Ice and Fire, I really like it but have to admit a certain level of frustration with the author in not completing the series.
It's one that I'll not buy, but will rent from the library to finish. As a reader I like a story that begins and ends, and Martin isn't fulfilling that for me.

I’ve noticed there has been a trend to have grey characters. Not just Bad guys and good guys but characters on the opposite end but both are right from their point of views. This is what makes an epic story to me, one that tells the lives of characters over time where they have a chance to develop. And you’re along for the ride! A good example of this is John Marco's trilogy Tyrants and Kings.

Donna wrote: "Sandi, you have a point about some being oop. I'm still fairly new to reading fantasy but I basically check the authors website to see if they are still writing the series. There are some, like Ann..."

You need to get The Name of the Wind it is great. Don’t wait!

And the sequel will be out soon.

Rachel wrote: "I tend to feel that to be 'epic' there has to be more at stake than the individual characters' lives and interests. Typically this seems to mean the fate of the world or at least a country."
I agree and for me, this is the biggest point. There also has to be a huge effort in worldbuilding. I think the combination of the two constitute an Epic.

I have been trying to think of a single volume epic, but haven't come up with anything. I'm sure there have to be some, think I'll go scour the fantasyliterature.com site. I guess to even attempt one, authors are forced to use multiple volumes.

I think the definition of epic fantasy is changing as authors move beyond the traditional hero's journey format. Brandon Sanderson, one of the best epic fantasy authors today, wrote books that mostly involved a single race in a single city, yet had far-reaching effects. Plus they were very long, another key criterion for epicity. I use past tense because his latest original work did take place across a much larger area and involved more races.

The epic fantasy I recommend is:

The Wheel of Time (which will finally have a conclusion in about a year; time your readthrough accordingly). This is my favorite series.

The Name of the Wind (first of a trilogy, but the second book will be out in 2.5 weeks. And it's worth a re-read when the third one comes out so go ahead and start it now). The first book is extremely good.

Brandon Sanderson is great, especially Mistborn and The Way of Kings.

There are other series, but the ones I've mentioned are the ones I like the most. I couldn't get into ASOIAF, it's too gritty for me. I've just started the Malazan series, which I've heard good things about. It's good, but not my cup of tea so far. I hear book 2 is particularly awesome so I'll stick with it.

@Brent Sanderson is still on my favorites list, but he's neck and neck with Weeks. I loved just as much as I did .

If by ASOIAF, you mean the series by GRR Martin, I'm disgusted by the length of time he's taken to finish it--plus it's been so long that I don't even remember if I liked it. I plan on watching it on HBO, but if they butcher the storyline as much as they've done with True Blood, I don't think it will matter.

Until recently, I hadn't read much Epic Fantasy for the last few years. I have however read books one and two in the Powerless Series by Jason Letts and I've very much enjoyed the world he's created. While book one introduces you to a varied cast, book two really lets you get to know them. I'm excited to get into book three.

Sonya wrote: "I agree with Lord of the Rings of course. Jacqueline Carey's series as well. Oddly enough, I have only read the first book. I think I'm still pouting because she killed a few characters I liked...."
You should finish the series because I promise Melisande and Imriel make up for it
but for me, Definitely Kushiel's Legacy, IDK if i can agree with lord of the rings... but then again i tried reading it at 10 maybe i'd like it now. oh and Sevenwaters of course. Although i didn't really LOVE the entire Incarnation series For Love of Evil really stood out as an epic fantasy to me.