Save The Babies discussion
just in my defense...
Unwind is an AMAZING book... it is fair to both sides which is nice...Everyone read it! lol XDHey Brigid, thanx for joining and telling us your veiws.
I agree with you in a way. If you don't want a child, but end up having one, chances are you are going to abuse the child, or at least, you wouldn't love the child, but is death the only option here? like, "Hey, I'm not gonna love you, so i'll kill you to spare you the experiance!"
It can't work like that. Sappy as it sounds, the child is bound to find love at one point. No matter how many years it takes, its worth the chance of life for the love you are bound to find.
If you can't take care of your child, why not give it to adoption? You write:"or if the kid is put up for adoption, then they grow up not knowing their real mother; sometimes the mother loses communication w/her child completely" ....
Um... what do you think abortion is?! You put the kid up for adoption, you give it a chance at life and love, and maybe you'll see him or her later in life and think, I'm glad i didn't kill him/her. But what happens when you get an abortion? He/She is gone forever. The End. No More. Ok? Yeah, meaning, guess what, that babys not gonna know his mother either, cuz its dead. gone. Chances at life crushed by a selfish mother.
I am not say that a person is a selfish person in the most part, but to kill your baby for your own sake. Sorry. Thats selfish. I know it would be embarasing to get pregnant when you're still a young teenager, and the only solution I can think of thats reasonable, besides setting a child up for adoption, is don't get pregnant. Thats all it takes.
Mod
She got pregnant way too young
She killed her child
The ridicule of her peers. (some kids in my grade already started that.)
Wouldn't that suck to live with that the rest of your life?
Mod
Excatly Catherine. Now, all we have to do is get this message out!
ya. its like where is the luv tht parents r supposed 2 hc 4 their children? children would make most parents happy. anybody watching "baby borrows" on abc?
but think about it!!! the world is already getting overpopulated... if abortion is made illegal, then that will just mean more and more unwanted kids growing up in the world.i think it's really unfair to say that abortion is "selfish". u can't expect all these girls to have to go through w/their pregnancies. i mean, it could complicate their health, first of all; they'll be humiliated at school, in public... sure, they should have been more responsible, but how is that fair??
i mean, say some girl was riding a motorcycle and crashed it and lost her arm. sure, she should have been more responsible. but are people going to treat her that way?? no, they'd be like 'oh, poor you! you lost your arm!' but a girl makes a mistake, ends up pregnant, and everyone treats her like dirt. why should she have to live with that, especially if she isn't going to care for her kid in the end, anyway????
you know, a girl could have sex ONE TIME and still get pregnant, and get treated like crap. some other girl could be having sex all the time, and yet nobody cares bcuz she's not the one who got pregnant. how is that fair??? anyway, deciding whether or not to have sex can be more complicated than a lot of ppl think it is; i know that i'm not ready for it, but some girls don't really know what it means or what it's like, and they mess up.and clare, sorry but i think it's just unrealistic to say "the child is bound to find love at one point", bcuz that's not true. it's true for SOME of these kids, sure. but chances are that most of them will end up abused/neglected, in some way miserable, and scarred for life--if not dead or homeless on the streets. sure, maybe someday they'll pull it together, but they'll spend a lot of time depressed and suffering to reach that goal. i just don't see how that's fair. it's easy for us to say because our parents care about us; we don't know what it's like to be unwanted, unloved, to grow up knowing that we were a 'mistake', maybe even abused, or neglected, or killed, or abandoned.
True, not everyone's life is perfect. In fact, a lot of people's lives aren't perfect. They're miserable! But think of it this way. What if you, you yourself, had the choice? The choice was to be aborted, or live in the cold cruel world, desitined to live on the streets? Honestly answer this question. Which would you choose? Brigid, your a brillent writer, and no one has enjoyed your story as much as I have. What if you had been aborted?! All your wonderful stories, thoughts, your personality... EVERYTHING would be dead. Gone. Forever. Everyone who knows you would have been deprived of what joy you have given them in life.
So what is your answer? Dirty miserable streets, perhaps no friends, maybe some bad sickness... or to never have been? To never have existed past the dark chamber of your mother's womb?
Your choice won't effect your life. You're alive, anyway. But if your mom had wanted to abort you, sadly, you wouldn't of had a choice.
Thats how abortion works.
okay, fine, but how do you even know that heaven even exists?? there's no proof, is there? and even if there was, maybe the kid would say, "Gee! I'm glad my mom made the right choice, because if I had been born, it would have complicated her health! Plus she wouldn't have cared about me, and my life would have been totally miserable!"and that is totally untrue that "no one's parents are gunna let their teenage daughter neglet and abuse her child". that's completely unrealistic. a lot of the time, parents will be so furious at their daughter for getting pregnant that they never want to talk to talk to her again, and kick her out of the house. a lot of parents would try to understand, but a good deal of them would also be FURIOUS, and probably ENCOURAGE their daughter to get an abortion. parents don't want their daughter to miss out on life because she has to try and raise a kid at such a young age. sorry for the reality check, but they might not even care what their daughter does to her child, as long as they themselves don't have to deal with it.
oh, my comment was for mckenna btw. clare and i posted at the same time... XD
okay, clare, in response to what you said...so what if i had the choice to live or not? i would be some speck of nothingness or something who didn't know what life was, so how would i know what i was missing??? it's not like these aborted babies have thoughts or feelings; they honestly don't know what's going on, and they don't feel anything. that sounds mean, but it's true. it's not like they'll ever have the choice, so what's the point in even suggesting it?!
s'ok. So life is cruel. There are tons of people out there that would help! I'm sorry, I know what you're talking about Brigid, but really, come on! There are so many people that would help! And all those who would like to adopt! What about the joy you would give them so for giving birth. You don't have to take care of that child, and you can give the baby to one who would love and care for it! Would you really rather kill the child?
besides, this argument shouldn't be based on 'could-have-beens'. i mean, an aborted baby 'could be' anyone. a genius, a criminal, a successful person, a person living on the streets, whatever. but NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW. that's how life is!! we don't know what's going to happen. so it's not fair to say, 'it's not fair to abort a baby because it COULD HAVE BEEN a wonderful person.' nobody knows that, do they?!?!
If you don't want the baby, then out the baby up for adoption
WHOA HOLD ON!!! NOW I'M A MURDERER???? WTF?? sorry, but that's just such an unnecessary thing to say!!! murdering is when you intentionally kill a person who has thoughts and feelings, not this thing growing in me that's not even a human yet; IT DOESN'T FEEL ANYTHING. sorry, but that's the way it is!!!
look, i'd love to discuss this further but i have to go now...
Brigid, I meant right now. If you had to choose right now... sure the baby isn't going to know what it's missing, but you, who has live 15 years, what would you say? Even if you were miserble. "WHY DIDN'T I DIE BY ABORTION!?!?! I WANTED TO!!"
yeah right. I doubt you wanted to, am I right? Sure there are suisidals out there, and maybe they think stuff like that all the time, but what about you Brigid. A simple Yes or No will do.
it's okay, mckenna, i understand your argument, but i have a strong opinion and i'm not gonna change it... i'm not trying to make enemies here, i'm just very opinionated. sorry. i hope you don't hate me...
AAAH!! CLARE THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! if i had to choose RIGHT NOW... well, i've already started my life and discovered my talents and have friends and family that love me. it's TOTALLY DIFFERENT. babies who haven't been born yet don't know have those experiences to make a 'decision', which they COULDN'T MAKE ANYWAY!!!okay i really have to go now. c ya tomorrow...
(and mckenna, abortion IS LAWFUL, so it's not murder!!!)
it's still murder, you are killing an inocent life.
thank you for agreeing with me McKenna. Just cause it's legal doesn't make it right.
yep, it's wrong to kill an unborn baby.
Guys, calm down! We're having an disscusion, not an anger heated arguement. We are both very protective and arguementative about our sides, but we're not gonna win anyone over by yelling...But thats just it Brigid. That kid has a chance at a life, no matter how that life ends up, its worth living.
Abortion is legal murder. Sorry Brigid, but it is murder. Murder is killing, and last time I checked, an aborted baby happens to be dead. Now, you say, "murdering is when you intentionally kill a person who has thoughts and feelings, not this thing growing in me that's not even a human yet; IT DOESN'T FEEL ANYTHING."
What about poisons? Or using fatal injections by way of killing. If you went up to a person and injected them with a painless substance that killed them, wouldn't you been considered a murderer? And there is proof that the unborn baby's heart beats, the body moves, and the brain thinks, very early on. It actually is a living been. I see you want the choice of not having to deal with a kid at a young age, but that doesn't mean that the child is not alive within you.
I'm not trying to make you an enemy Brigid, in fact, I really don't want to... I'm just trying to point these things out. Hope it's not making you hate me...
Now, there are some very wrong, and stupid laws out there. I wrote a short report on one. Please check it out:http://www.goodreads.com/story/show/2...
Nice report, I can't belive you could go to jail for that! A car acident was n;t on purpose it was an acident, hince the worde car Acident.
thanx! My goal is to get it to the top of the writing list so more people will read it and have the opertonity to see what is going on in this twisted world. Please comment on it if you haven't, so it can get higher! Thanx : D
YESSS!!!! Its the 5th down!!!! Hopefully some randome ppl will read it soon! yay! thanx you guys... I really wanna spread this message out... after, it is my Message To The World!!!! lol XD
i think it's a good argument, clare... but it's just a stupid law to begin with. just like it would be a stupid law to make abortion illegal.oh and clare, what i was saying before; i wasn't saying that poisoning didn't count as murder just bcuz there was no pain. i know that's still murder. but abortion IS NOT MURDER. as mckenna said earlier, the definition of murder is: "Murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought; something outrageous or blameworthy." first of all, abortion isn't against the law. secondly, there is no 'malice aforethought'. if a girl aborts her baby, she's not doing it to intentionally hurt it; she's doing it to save herself from health complications and so that she can have a normal life. so, in that case, it's not an 'outrageous' or 'blameworthy' action to take.
besides, if abortion is made punishable by law, that would only make girls take more desperate measures to kill unborn children. i read an article about this girl who got pregnant, but she was afraid to get an abortion--so her boyfriend offered to kick her in the stomach until she had a miscarriage (which she didn't want to do) so then he KILLED HER. sure, her boyfriend was a maniac. but if she had aborted the baby, she wouldn't be DEAD.
i heard another story too about this fourteen-year-old girl who went through w/her pregnancy, and then GAVE BIRTH IN A SCHOOL BATHROOM, and then KILLED THE BABY. do you really want that happening to teenage girls all over the country: giving birth in SCHOOL BATHROOMS???
why should it happen AT ALL???and you would seriously blame anyone if they got an abortion? so if your best friend/sister/etc. comes up to you and goes, 'i'm pregnant, but i'm going to get an abortion cuz i want a normal life' you would SHUN her and stop talking to her?? you wouldn't stand by her and support her???
I would still love my best friend or sister etc... if she got an abortion, but I would NOT support her decision to end the life of her child. I would definitely support her if she choose to do the right thing -- and she would need support. There are lots of people and organizations to support these girls.
well, i wouldn't be telling her what to do. it's HER kid, not mine. if she chose to abort it, that would be her decision. if she decided to keep it or put it up for adoption, that would be her decision, too. i would support her NO MATTER WHAT SHE DECIDED TO DO. i don't think anyone should be telling these girls what they can and can't do. no one can tell a woman what to do with her child; it's a decision she has to make on her own. therefore, she has a right to get an abortion if she wants to.
Bridgid~Okay, first of all, I have no idea about your religious views, but first and foremost we have the problem of destroying a life and a soul that God has created. If you don't care about that I don't suppose anyone on earth has the ability to change your mind about this topic.
Secondly, overpopulation is an absurd myth. It is a sorry, sad and worn out arguement. Once again, I do not know your thoughts on God, but I firmly believe you will not find him scratching His head saying, 'Darn, I wasn't thinking, I should have made the world bigger! If only I had known!' After all, he did say to 'Go forth and multiply'. As far as I know he put no limits on it. In the United States and Canada you need to glance at death and birth rates, and see that there is more of a chance we will all be old and gray with no one but the government to take care of us. I find that a trifle chilling! But, if to you, life should be nothing if not comfort, happiness and no chance of any kind of suffering, maybe being snuffed out when life becomes less than perfect is not a worry. I ask you, why killing an unwanted child is different to some than killing an unwanted whiney old man? When will the fine line be erased?
Thirdly, if you think we are each equipped with the right to decide who may or may not be loved so therefor who should or should not die, that is quite something to take upon oneself! I do not believe in fortune tellers. I wonder if my sister-in-law thinks that her mother should have been given the right and prompted to 'choose' rather than give birth at 17 and put her up for adoption. She (my sister-in-law), had two loving adopted parents, a brother that was adopted as well. Now she has a loving husband, 3 healthy little boys, much comfort and I am sure many sufferings that I do not know about, also, that come with life. Even so, I have no doubt that she is glad she isn't dead! In the past couple of years, she found her birth mom, found that she had married her real father in the end has two full blood brothers. It was very exciting for her, and though there are probably joys and regrets on all sides, that's life. Really, can you say that we should play God and choose?
Fourth, no one has been promised ultimate happiness and comfort here on earth. No doubt most of us are spoiled with comforts and pleasures. But for those who live in poverty, sickness, and suffering, are their lives worth less than ours? Maybe their reward in life after will far exceed our own. Again, who are we to make that decision? Should we kindly put to sleep and inject orphans in third world countries with lethal serums to put them out of their misery? If not, why?
adoption is a great thing. Like Mckenna said, it would give them a chance to have a normal life.
that's good.. They desvere to have a normal life.
let the baby have a normal life too!
It gives every one a chance at life.
so you would a kill a baby that was sick.
but, then your killing a baby. What if it was curable?
Brigid, I see why you would want a choice, but I'm afraid that the baby IS alive. So, really, if you didn't want the kid, you could kill him by abortion or when he's born, and their wouldn't be a diffenece. It'd still be dead.
I hope I am misunderstanding! Are some of you saying it is okay to kill a sick child? That is NOT what I was saying, please reread! That is horrible! No one has the right to kill a human!
yeah, but..your killing an inocent life...
yeah, i guess your right, ppl in our world would. Me though, this is me, i wouldn't kill the baby. I would let it live
Whether or not the baby would die or not, advanced medicine could spare dying babies pain with drugs! Pain IN NO WAY makes a life less valueble OR dispensable! I think it is frightening that some of you talk this way. Most of you seem young, I am so puzzled by teens today! What is the point of life to you? You should not define your life by what is pleasant or painful. Suffering is not all evil. It is not fun but I know no one who has no suffering. It is a passing thing and cannot determine one's right to live, or whether one has the right to take his own or someone else's life!
okay, first of all, pro-choice people are not "baby killers". personally, i would never get an abortion, because i would feel horrible, and i would probably end up keeping the baby instead, and take responsibility. however, there are a lot of teenage girls who simply don't want the baby and don't want to take responsibility for it. if they don't abort it, then the kid could end up growing up unloved or not properly cared for, the mother could end up missing out on a lot of life and education. or if the kid is put up for adoption, then they grow up not knowing their real mother; sometimes the mother loses communication w/her child completely. sometimes the mother will even kill the child or throw it in a dumpster (i hate to have to say it, but it happens!! i think girls should have the choice whether they want to keep a child or not, bcuz why should they go through w/the pregnancy if they're going to end up abusing/neglecting their child? the truth is: mistakes happen, and it's not fair to make all those girls who make mistakes just "deal with it".
i can see the pro-life point of view; abortions are sad--i can't deny that. but the choice should still be there, in my opinion.
p.s. you should all read Unwind by Neal Shusterman, which provides an alternative situation for abortion; i know it's far-fetched, but it's an amazing book... and it might change your mind...