My Adventures Through Theology and Beyond discussion

Relationships? What kind are you talking about? I don't why there's life, but since we have it, we might as well make the best of it! As in...when you're dead, at least die knowing you made the best of your life. If you live your life right, one life is enough to live! That's kind of a quote(;

Oh, okay!

It probably is mainly about relationships..I think it's about...hmm..I'll comment when my thoughts aren't jumbled together.

*Mrs.Brightside* wrote: "I don't why there's life, but since we have it, we might as well make the best of it!"

Almost exactly my view of things, except for I don't think there's any particular reason for it. It just is. Accept it, and make the best of it.

YESS!!

I've a similar motto ^-^

My motto is: "Live everyday as your last, because one day it will be."



Honestly, I think you should live everyday faithfully just because it is your life. Suicide, I believe, is one of the most serious of sins. God gave you a life to enjoy and make worth living, and you just throw it away?! It's total madness.

The purpose of life is whatever you make your purpose out to be. There is no "ultimate purpose" of life. It is what you make it. If you want to be a doctor, your purpose of life is to be a doctor. Also, one could have multiple purposes. Be a doctor, have a family, play video games, etc.

I guess that's right. But it is also possible to influence others to an ultimate purpose. Look at Martin Luther King.

But it is also possible to influence others to an ultimate purpose. Look at Martin Luther King.

You aren't influencing someone to pursue an "ultimate" purpose. You are influencing them to pursue their purpose.

Girl4beluga wrote: "and what is this Ultimate Purpose?"



There are a lot of them. I think it has mostly to do with no difference between living beings. Why do you think I'm an Animal rights Activist? Because I don't think that Animals are any different than humans.

Because I don't think that Animals are any different than humans

So would you rather have your mom die or your cat?

Um, I don't have a cat. Never did actually.

But I get your meaning. To me your question is like asking me: "Would you rather kill your sister or mother?" Now does that make ANY sense?

I actually agree with Claere on this one. I don't see why we treat animals as inferior....

To me your question is like asking me: "Would you rather kill your sister or mother?" Now does that make ANY sense?

I don't believe you. I don't believe that if you have a pet, you think it dying and your sister or mother dying are equivalent. Do you have any pets? Would you rather your mother die or a pet die? Simple question.

Yeah.

Nathan wrote: "To me your question is like asking me: "Would you rather kill your sister or mother?" Now does that make ANY sense?

I don't believe you. I don't believe that if you have a pet, you think it dyi..."






I take that as a personal insult. *shocked* I do not see my pets as my belongings. I see them as my family and my family knows that I think so. My mom asked me a question like that before. "Do you love me more, or Caspian (my now dead bird) more?" I said, "Would you rather have me die or Hazel (my sister) die?" My mom gets the point, so I have no idea why you don't. Considering that I could die for my pets I think I have every right to put them in the same row as my human family.

♥ Rachel♥ wrote: "I actually agree with Claere on this one. I don't see why we treat animals as inferior...."




Thank you, Rachel. This is the part I hate about Christianity and love about Buddism.

Considering that I could die for my pets I think I have every right to put them in the same row as my human family.

Answer the question. Would you rather your pet die or your mom die? You keep avoiding it because you don't want to admit that we all already know the answer.

And the answer is? Let me ask you a question, do you have a sibling? I suppose you have a mother. Would you rather have your sibling die or your mother die? If you can choose then ask me the question again, if you can't choose, then stop questioning my beliefs.

And the answer is? Let me ask you a question, do you have a sibling?

You won't answer the question because you don't want to admit the truth.

You asked me a hard question. I don't know the answer and would have to think about it. Why? Because we are talking about people. I suspect that my mother would say she would rather die than one of her children. That is a natural progression of life, and all good parents feel that dying before one of their children would be horrific. The pain to my mother of losing a child would likely be more than she could handle.

However, I can answer this as honestly as I can answer anything...if I had the choice between your mother dying and my pet, I would choose my pet. Why? Because my pet's life is nowhere near as important as your mother's life. And I don't even know you or your mother.

I think you are one of two things. Dishonest, and you don't want to admit it. Or completely mentally disturbed.

I'll say that you are mentally disturbed. What difference is there between your pet and your sibling besides the fact that you are blood related to your sibling? Maybe you don't love your pet (if you have one), but I do. I stopped eating meat to show how much I care. To me my pets are more than my pets. They are my best friends and sisters and brothers. I still don't understand what makes everyone think that animals "lower" than humans. God takes care of the weak. And animals are. Humans have mistreated them for many thousands of years, yet they cannot rebel. Perhaps because God made humans dominate over animals, and nature. But I don't think that qualifies us to treat them anyway we want.

What difference is there between your pet and your sibling besides the fact that you are blood related to your sibling?

A lot. My siblings have hopes, plans and aspirations for the future. My siblings can contribute to society by holding jobs, donating time, etc. My siblings are sentient beings. My siblings can think about and contemplate life. My siblings have distinct memories. My siblings have the ability to truly understand others and their emotions. My siblings understand spoken and written language and the spoken language they understand is far more than "sit" and "food." My siblings have an understanding of science, math, history, language, and philosophy. My siblings have empathy for others. I could keep going on, but hopefully you get the point.

They are my best friends and sisters and brothers.

That is seriously pathetic. Your best friends can't even talk to you about your problems.

I still don't understand what makes everyone think that animals "lower" than humans.

Because, objectively, they are lower than humans. Humans write sonnets, cure diseases, invent computers, learn and teach. They are better.

God takes care of the weak. And animals are.

I guess he missed a few when I dined on steak, pork and chicken last week.

Humans have mistreated them for many thousands of years, yet they cannot rebel.

Another reason humans are better than animals. Humans can rebel. Animals can't. Why? Is it because they are not strong enough? Not in many cases. It is because they are not intelligent enough.

Perhaps because God made humans dominate over animals, and nature. But I don't think that qualifies us to treat them anyway we want.

God has nothing to do with it because he doesn't exist. But if he did and did make us dominant over them, that is exactly what it would mean. That we can treat them anyway we want.

"My siblings have hopes, plans and aspirations for the future. My siblings can contribute to society by holding jobs, donating time, etc. My siblings are sentient beings. My siblings can think about and contemplate life. My siblings have distinct memories. My siblings have the ability to truly understand others and their emotions. My siblings understand spoken and written language and the spoken language they understand is far more than "sit" and "food." My siblings have an understanding of science, math, history, language, and philosophy. My siblings have empathy for others."

What of humans that are mentally ill and cannot do these things?

"My siblings have empathy for others."

So do plenty of animals....

"Humans can rebel. Animals can't."

I'm fairly sure I heard something about a bunch of pigs running away from a slaughterhouse once :P That's not exactly overthrowing our governments and stuff, but it isn't compliance.

What of humans that are mentally ill and cannot do these things?

Mentally ill people do not have this lack in ability. You are speaking of brain damaged individuals. People that are brain damaged to the point where they cannot do any of these things and lay in hospital beds hooked up to machines are not as valuable or important as humans who do. A person who is brain dead is not as valuable as a person who is not. That isn't to say that people don't love that person or feel for that person or wish that person was well. It just means that this person who has no feelings, thoughts or emotions is not as valuable or important as one who does.

So do plenty of animals....

Not true empathy. Empathy is being able to put oneself into another person's shoes and feel as they feel. Animals cannot do this.

I'm fairly sure I heard something about a bunch of pigs running away from a slaughterhouse once :P That's not exactly overthrowing our governments and stuff, but it isn't compliance.

It is neither compliance nor is it non-compliance. The animals sense danger and are running away. They aren't saying, "I don't think it is fair we are used as food for humans. Let's rebel and run away."

Nathan wrote: "Mentally ill people do not have this lack in ability."

See the last comment...the one for G4b :P

Nathan wrote: "Not true empathy. Empathy is being able to put oneself into another person's shoes and feel as they feel. Animals cannot do this."

I suppose. But not all humans are very good at this either...I know I'm not :P

And, alright about the non-rebellion :P

Girl4beluga wrote: "Rachel my brother is mentally ill, and he can still do all those things"

Not all mental illnesses can prevent people from those things, no. But severe autism, for example, can affect a person's ability to do some of the mentioned things.

I want to answer to Nathan, but the post is too long, would you mind shortening it?

....It's not really long. Just read his main points. Or, what he's basically saying.

O.K..... Well, animals have hopes for the future too..... I know. I can talk to animals. Well, some animals. I used to communicate with my bird. He was such a sweetie. Everybody liked him.

XD that is awesome

xD!!! My friend has a cat like that ^-^

Cool. My cousin's cat is like total royalty.

But severe autism, for example, can affect a person's ability to do some of the mentioned things.

Some, not all. A person may be lacking some of those things. However, a non-human animal is lacking all of them.

Well, animals have hopes for the future too..... I know. I can talk to animals. Well, some animals. I used to communicate with my bird. He was such a sweetie. Everybody liked him.

And here I thought Rachel was nuts. Animals have hopes for the future and you can talk to animals? I hope you are joking because what you are saying is completely idiotic.

Nathan wrote: "But severe autism, for example, can affect a person's ability to do some of the mentioned things.

Some, not all. A person may be lacking some of those things. However, a non-human animal is lacking all of them."

No, not all. There was at least one gorilla that had learned sign language (so it had an understanding of language)...and I'm fairly positive at least a few other vertebrates have distinct memories, and a bunch more are sentient....

Ah, but the dolphins can fly away whenever they get the signal that Earth will soon be destroyed....

Really, though, why does this make our lives more important than theirs? We dominate the planet, yes, but so what? Why does this make us more worthy of life?

So sad that it should come to this ^-^

Of course you do - we're evolved to care about our species more than about others. :P

No, not all. There was at least one gorilla that had learned sign language (so it had an understanding of language)

A basic understanding. But we don't eat primates nor do most people have them as pets. We were talking about pets and animals we use for food.

...and I'm fairly positive at least a few other vertebrates have distinct memories

Distinct memories in what way?

and a bunch more are sentient....

Really? Let's name some.

We dominate the planet, yes, but so what? Why does this make us more worthy of life?

I already stated why.

Dide everyone but me ignore the fact that Claere claimed to be able to talk to animals? And I assume she meant that they talk back, since we can all talk to them.

I guess she is the next "Pet Psychic." I can't believe anyone even bought into that shit back when it was on tv. My ex-girlfriend from college believed it. She couldn't understand that the woman could say whatever she wanted because no one could check to see if she was telling the truth. She just couldn't get that concept.

Well, I wasn't always so smart when picking girls. I have an "atheist only" rule now.

Nathan wrote: "Dide everyone but me ignore the fact that Claere claimed to be able to talk to animals? And I assume she meant that they talk back, since we can all talk to them."




Not all animals, mostly birds really.

Not all animals, mostly birds really

And they talk back to you? Of course, I mean the non-parrot variety that can't literally talk.

Girl4beluga wrote: "You know Rachel you know that I accept evolution in every way. However there is a time and place for it...and to be quite honest......there is something more to living then just atoms...I don't give a damn what you say I would find it difficult to believe that, that is all you thought of life as well."

...OK...we've still evolved to do so. Whether or not there is a higher purpose to life...my point still stands....
And, I don't make any assertions about what life is/n't, because there's no way of knowing, and I won't base opinions off anything but logic....

Nathan wrote: "A basic understanding. But we don't eat primates nor do most people have them as pets. We were talking about pets and animals we use for food. "

I was under the impression that we were talking about all animals....

Nathan wrote: "Distinct memories in what way?"

Episodic memory is what I was thinking of.

Nathan wrote: "Really? Let's name some."

Well, seeing as 'sentient' is defined as "responsive to or conscious of sense impressions"...most of them. Canines, felines, primates, birds....

Nathan wrote: "Not all animals, mostly birds really

And they talk back to you? Of course, I mean the non-parrot variety that can't literally talk."



It's not like human speech.....

Nathan wrote: "Not all animals, mostly birds really

And they talk back to you? Of course, I mean the non-parrot variety that can't literally talk."



It's not like human speech.....

It's not like human speech.....

Do explain.

You don't have conversations with them. A conversation implies understanding by both parties.