Science and Inquiry discussion

It looks like we'll be discussing The Selfish Gene for August! Here's a breakdown of the votes:

The Selfish Gene 8

The Ghost Map 6
The Third Chimpanzee 6

The Beak of the Finch 5
The Omnivore's Dilemma 5

The Mismeasure of Man 4
Physics of the Impossible 2
The Ten Most Beautiful Experiments 2
Polio: An American Story 1
The Radioactive Boyscout 0
Plague Time 0
The Structure of Scientific Revolutions 0

Also, Schrodinger's Cat received a write-in vote.

I am a little surprised at how little interest there seems to be in physics. I'd be interested to hear thoughts as to why this might be.

Personally, I would love to read and discuss all of the above. I can't wait to get to the library to pick up a copy of "The Selfish Gene."

I've read Schrodinger's Cat, years ago, and remember liking it.

The Selfish Gene it is, then!

Alright! Off to the library for me!

Very exciting! I've not read that one yet so I too am off to the library...

Sounds great! I am on the hold list - it seems that this book is quite popular at my library. I hope to get it before the discussion starts up.

Just in time - I got it at the library and I am hoping to start it this weekend. Who else has their copy??

I got my copy from the libray on Tuesday, and I started it on my flight to Utah. I got a bit of a shock when I found out that it was first published in 1976 and is considered a classic. I'm hoping to find some recent reviews that I can post links to for the group. Unfortunately, I have limited access to the internet where I am currently staying. If anyone else finds some interesting links, please post them.

Who else has gotten started?

My copy is in the mail, I think. Looking forward to it ariving.

I bought a copy three days ago and started it yesterday. I have had some curious looks on the morning train as I have been reading :)

I'm on the hold list at the library. DARN! Hopefully it'll arrive sooner than soon.

I got my copy on Monday, I've been reading it off and on since then. I'm currently in the middle of chapter 5.

Hi, I read this in June of this year. Will be interested in the discussions and what people think.

Just got my copy from the library today. I had time to read a little and so far it seems really good.

Got my copy in the mail yesterday - looks very interesting.

I am back in Oz, after six rather hectic European weeks, but I own a copy, so re-reading starts tonight. Count me in.

Got a copy from the library today. I'm on vacation at a cabin next week, so will hopefully have time to read it all. Can't wait!

For those in the UK, channel4 is showing "The Genius of Charles Darwin: Presented by Richard Dawkins". The first episode has already been shown on Monday 4th Aug 08, 8:00pm but Parts 2 and 3 will be shown in the next two weeks. You can still see the first episode here (broken into 5 parts): Video Link

Thank you so much for letting us know, Rowland. I don't tend to watch much TV but for this I can make an exception.

Hopefully that one will cross the Atlantic. It sounds like a natural for PBS.

I'll certainly keep an eye out for it, if it does.

I apologize that I have had such limited ability to post this month.

Dawkins' prefaces piqued my interest in how "The Selfish Gene" has been received in the scientific community. I even went and found a copy of the 30th anniversary edition, so that I could read his most recent preface. I was surprised that he still sounded defensive about the book after all these years.

I found an article that discussed the initial reception of the book in the scientific community, which confirmed that the reviews were positive. Apparently, the problem was that there were so few of them (only four). Dawkins suggest in the most recent preface, that the ideas were not controversial in the scientific community at the time, but that they are more controversial now. Does anyone know what recent criticisms there have been and by what fields?

When I read the preface, I assumed the controversy he was referring to was not from the scientific community but more from the proponents of "Intelligent Design", a relatively new concept and not something he would have had to face at the time of writing the book. He refers to his book as now being "regarded as a work of radical extremism". I would think that to creationists, this book is.

Looking on Wikipedia (as I often do!), some of the scientific criticism centres around his use of the gene as the basic unit of selection in evolution as opposed to other units like the organism or group selection. Others (philosophers), believe Dawkins book attempts to answer philosophical and moral questions outside of the realms of biology and that he makes unsubstantiated statements about the meaning of life.

Thank you, Rowland. I should have thought of checking Wikipedia!

While it makes sense that it wouldn't ALL be about the gene, I think that the success of the book is largely based on the extent to which Dawkins emphasizes and focuses on the gene as THE mechanism. It is interesting that the book may have started with the title, since Dawkins says in one of his prefaces that the title is what most of the critics focus on rather than the substance of the book. I have to admit that it was a large reason that I wanted to read the book. I was pleasantly suprised to find Dawkins writing to be both accessible and engaging. And, I am continually suprised at the apparently archaic beliefs I have had about species selection, especially given that the book was written over 30 years ago.

How are others finding the book? Do you find it readable? Do you buy Dawkins basic argument? Did anyone else go into this with a belief in species selection? Or, am I alone in starting with such quaint notions? I admit I read a lot more science written before 1900 than after. (I may be out of date in the 21st century, but I'd be cutting edge in the 16th.)

This is the first biology/evolution book I've read, I've never been a big fan of the subject before, but this book has made me interested. From my perspective, I think it's a great introduction to the subject. Dawkins is easy to read and doesn't get too technical, and his examples really help to illustrate and clarify how genes behave and why.

One impression I took away from reading this book is that life doesn't have a "purpose", life just is. Did anyone else get that?

Your comment about life's purpose, Samuel, is an interesting one and one I have heard before. Yes, I am getting that from the book, but I see it that the fact life 'just is' means that you give it your own purpose. Interestingly, I am not one of the people for whom this book made them feel hopeless or depressed. On the contrary - it shows just how amazing life is and how important it is to enjoy every second of it.

I am finding it fascinating so far - I'm half way through...

Replication of genes is what Richard Dawkins gives as the reason (or driving force) of life. So from that perspective, there really isn't any purpose to life. But this conclusion would also be drawn from Charles Darwin's "On the Origin of Species": Complex life evolving from simpler life with no guiding hand other than natural selection.

I agree with Nancy in that the book didn’t depress me but it did make me see things differently. For me at least, I can’t help but use the ideas in the book to explaining why people behave the way they do (although I’m not sure it’s intended to be used in that way).

I have to admit I only had a very rudimentary knowledge of evolution (learnt in high school so many years ago and had forgotten everything). I only started to understand it after reading "The Blind Watchmaker", another of Dawkin’s books. What I thought I knew about evolution was generally wrong.

It is a very interesting experience for me reading this - as Dawkins' theory is basically what I was taught in school! (And I went to religious high schools. Go figure.)

Oh no - my copy has been recalled to the library - due tomorrow. I'm only on the Family Planning chapter! I'll find another copy; I'd really like to finish.

Has anyone else finished?

It was a most interesting read.

I found a copy in a charity shop!

I'm only about six chapters in. I really enjoyed the section on DNA, but found the chaper on aggression with the extended metaphor of hawks and doves a bit tedious.

Has anyone else read S J Gould ? I read 'The Panda's Thumb ' too long ago to compare and contrast.

I don't find that life has no purpose to be depressing at all, either. ( if anyone watched the TV programmes on Darwin Dawkins did say that evolution has no purpose, and there is no way to predict which direction evolution will take) And not having children, I must have no evolutionary purpose at all!

This is an AWESOME book. I have yet to find a book that explains evolution as well as Dawkins.

Jean-Marie Vaneskahian

I have not read The Panda's Thumb, but Steven Jay Gould's Wonderful Life is excellent, one of my science favorites.