Middle East/North African Lit discussion

does anyone want this group to be active? i think we could have fun working from the list Nile Daughter just posted or working from the Arab Booker list of winners/short list/long list.

I'd be interested! If we choose books far enough in advance that I'd have a chance to get them...

Cool! I'd also like to have a decent amount of time to read them, up to two months if they are long. How much time do you think you'd need to acquire books, Bernadette?

Yes, let's give ourselves plenty of time to read them! I could most likely have them by the start of January. (I can't believe that's next month!) I have one bookstore locally that may carry some of the titles, but for sure I'll be in Cairo this month and can get them there. So if we choose the first few titles, I can stock up!

I wonder if anyone else will be interested...

But what do you think? I'm happy to read anything...do you want to read straight from the list? Backward? Forward? Mix in Booker prize winners and contenders or do those separately? I feel like one is more historical and one is more current...we could also use a randomizer to spit titles out to choose from...

Oh gosh I'm excited! :D

oooh Marieke , I was going to make a similar thread now !!! :p

I'm very excited too!
We can do it like African group & do it by country , the list cover lots of arabe countries ? or make a poll about certain book , if polls are available ?

it looks like non-moderators can create polls in this group. so we should be able to get things going without an active moderator, but i'll contact Irma and let her know that a few of us want to be active.

it could be fun to do an alphabetical tour! if any of those lists neglect an Arab country, we can try to find books on our own. should we use the Arab League as our guide for Arab countries? that would give us a lot of interesting variety.

Bernadette, and anyone else who joins us, what do you think?

Yes , I guess the Arab League can be a our guide, but note that middle east includes non-Arab countries too like Turkey and Iran , some definitions even include ( –tan ) countries !

we will start by Arabs ?

yeah, let's mix it up! let's come up with a list and see if we can all agree...i thought the Arab League would be good because of the 100 books list...and the Arab League includes some African countries outside of the traditional Maghreb region. sooo...Arab League+Turkic+Persian countries? the former Soviet Republics around the Caspian Sea? and Israel?

or we could start with the traditional MENA-region countries first and then branch out. but i would really love to read some things from the -stans. :D

I checked the MENA definition , ok that is exactly the group focus , you are right :)

From wiki :

Algeria
Bahrain
Djibouti
Egypt
Iran
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Libya
Morocco
Oman
Palestinian territories
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Ethiopia
Sudan
Syria
Tunisia
United Arab Emirates
Yemen
Mauritania

They have : Iran & Ethiopia !


Arab League
Algeria
Bahrain
Comoros
Djibouti
Egypt
Iraq
Jordan
Kuwait
Lebanon
Libya
Mauritania
Morocco
Oman
Palestine
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
Somalia
Sudan
Syria
Tunisia
United Arab Emirates
Yemen

The Arab League list only gives us a couple of extras...should we combine them? we had a lot of trouble finding a book for Comoros over at the Africa group, btw...partly because there were no English translations of French-language books available. :(

I think we should , I agree about Comoros , sould we take Ethiopia / eritrea ? ( I feel it weird ) , Iran without Turkey ?

or should we dely this group and (-stan)( do not speak Arabic) after Arab League as you suggested ?

I guess , we will need more members here :)
It is a moderating job :(

i'll see if i can contact Irma...

and let's see if some people from the other thread follow your link. :D

we could do clumps...like the four Maghreb countries + Upper Egypt; Lower Egypt+ the Levant (Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon), the Arabian Peninsula (Saudi, Yemen, Oman, the Gulf States), and then Turkey, Iraq, and Iran...

just an idea!

Marieke wrote: "we could do clumps...like the four Maghreb countries + Upper Egypt; Lower Egypt+ the Levant (Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon), the Arabian Peninsula (Saudi, Yemen, Oman, the Gulf States), and then T..."

that is an excellent idea , we can jump between groups , it will be easier with choosing books from the list ..:D:D

Ok so we have:

1- Maghreb countries ( Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Mauritania )

2- For Egypt , it is hard ?!!! what do you think of African Red Sea Area (Egypt ,Sudan and the rest ) ?
3- the Levant or sham (Palestine/Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon)

4- the Arabian Peninsula(Bahrain, Kuwait ,Oman ,Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates ,Yemen), I would recommend Iraq here , what do you think?

5- rest of west Asia (Turkey , Iran and -stan countries )

yeah, i had split Egypt in half...is that a bad thing to do?

i like the African Red Sea area idea.

and i like "Rest of the West" for Turkey, Iran, and -stans!! funny!

or we could make up some regions and repeat some of the countries, that way we would read things from different parts of those countries.

:D:D

Marieke wrote: "yeah, i had split Egypt in half...is that a bad thing to do?

i like the African Red Sea area idea."

No it is not bad , that is what Egypt is , but I think it is not very easy to deal with in literature (I mean total separation )?

For the red sea idea , I was thinking of the Nile too :)

or we could make up some regions and repeat some of the countries, that way we would read things from different parts of those countries."

Countries repletion is good ! :D specially if we are discussing a topic with several books related to it , it can happen with Gulf countries and Iran , Egypt & Sham , Turkey and Arabs in general ..

There are plenty of ideas here :D

Interesting!
Categorizing countries in this region has always been a headache.. So, let me suggest a little change:

1- Maghreb countries ( Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Mauritania )

2- Valley of the Nile (Egypt & Sudan)

3- Horn of Africa (Somalia, Djibouti) + Comoros

4- Levant or Sham (Palestine/ Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon).

5- Arabian Gulf (Bahrain, Kuwait ,Oman ,Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates ,Yemen) and now we can include Iraq in this geographic category, though culturally speaking it can't b categorized with Arab Peninsula countries.

6- West Asia (Turkey , Iran and -stan countries )

Did I forget anything? I guess not!
I'll go check the World Atlas, just in case. :)

yay, a professional! hi Ingy! :D

you'll read along with us, right? and i was thinking as i get better at arabic, i'll read the originals after i read the english... ;)

Hi dear :D

I will do my best to keep up with you.. But b/w the African group and the green group and Mahfouz group, AND my original "reading stream" it will b very hard to open another front!
I will follow anyway and try my best to participate.. And since most of the reads are Arabic books and there is a good chance I read some of them, I guess I can participate. :))

Btw, I'm still looking into this categorization of Mideast countries.

I know I am going to go insane! :D

NG
I am so glad you joined us dear :D
You are right about Categorizing (Valley of the Nile and Horn of Africa ) but I think the last one will trouble us much to find suitable readings ?and they will be small zones compared with others – what do you think ?

About the groups , well…I am not planning for reading all their books every month either :o what fits in my interest and schedule will be satisfying , otherwise ; I will go insane like Marieke :p

Sweet Marieke ..reading the originals , wow ..now we are talking :D

also i was thinking that you guys, and maybe some others, may have already read these books before and you can just post your thoughts without actually reading during the time-frame. or if we choose a country, we don't have to choose specific books necessarily...we can just share what we are reading. maybe a few of us could coordinate, but otherwise we could just have a conversation about literature from each country. of course that will only make me want to read everything even more! :D

btw--i found my copy of Miramar in English so i am reading it alongside the original. his language is too poetic for me to try to read just the arabic. but i will learn a lot. :D

Dear Nile Daughter.. I read what suits my interests too.. but also books available in Egypt!
Still the quantaty of books "to-read" is huge :S

Dear Marieke, this is a very good idea! I think it will work..

As for the classification, the one I posted above was on strict geographical basis.. But we can always combine, Valley of the Nile with Horn of Africa, or any other regions together to make it easier for us!
Actually we already combined few countries that "cultural-wise" do not match..
- Peninsula with Iraq,
- Israel with Sham (well at least, Ashkenazi Jews and non-Jews-Ex-soviet-citizens dont match with Sephardi Jews and the rest of Sham)
- And Horn of Africa with the Nile Valley.

So.. what do you think?

Nile Daughter, thanks for inviting me to join this group. I enjoyed reading the posts dealing with the geography (one of my favorite subjects) of the region and trying to figure out which countries to include and how to combine them. Looks like lots of good books on the group's read shelf too and I'll be eager to see what books are suggested once the countries are figured out. I was not familiar with all the regional terms so I've added to my knowledge already!

Catherine ,
Welcome on board, I hope you will like it here , I though it may interest you ;) ..

Marrikie and Ng
you made excellent ideas , so can we make two months for every region , pick group of books or subject for each ?
We will see what will the rest of the group recommend?

*****
I have an announcement; The administration made me a moderator here! So I will try to contact the other members and see what we can do.. :)

oh, nice, Nile Daughter! you just tell us what to do and we'll do it. :D

This sounds great -- though I'm afraid I won't be able to read them in arabic like Marieke (she is such an overacheiver!!!) :-) I like the idea of grouping the countries and I'm looking forward to the discussions, though I will most likely not be able to keep up w/ the reading on my own. If I've already read one of the selections, then I may jump in.

Is there a way to build a gruop bookshelf, where we could all put our lists of books that fall into this reading category? It would be fun to see what is on everyone else's shelves. Not sure if goodreads is set up to let us do that, but if so, I think that would be cool.

Thank you Nile daughter for taking on the role of moderator. You have us off to a terrific start :-)

i don't know if i can either, Wendy! lol! i'm so glad to see you posting...remember way back when? hahaha.

i think organizing group bookshelves for group reads is a great idea...like what we do at the Africa group.

oh, just FYI, Nile Daughter asked me to help her out with the moderating; i accepted...if anyone has a problem with that, i will gladly step aside.

I'm unsure what we're discussing :<

Amanda wrote: "I'm unsure what we're discussing :<"

hi amanda!

we are trying to figure out how to structure group reading activities...

One way we could avoid the geographical issues is to structure readings/discussions around major topics. Off the top of my head, I can think of Arab nationalism; Orientalism and the West; Islam and identity; the petroleum industry; the developing world; gender issues; the burden of history.

Oh! Hrrm...I've only been in 1 book club in my life, and we decided on some books we liked, then ordered them into months.

Like: March - Book A
April - Book B
May - Book C

And we got the schedule 3 months in advance.

Just an example of what I've seen done xD

yes, we definitely need to think ahead so that people can acquire them in time.

so possibilities are
-themes (we can generate a list building from Tiffany's)
-countries within regions (yet to be completely determined)
-alphabetical tour (we do this in the Africa group i moderate)

or we can do some combinations.

Nile Daughter also posted fantastic links to the 100 Best Arabic Books and women's literature in the Arab world...but this group is more than just the Arab world... :D

I read the entire thread, and i dont get why do we have to do it into regions? O.o I think countries was okay, haha.

Also, I'd like to point out that ISRAEL is also in the Middle East.

i think the idea was to break a big region down into smaller regions (problematic) and read selections from each of the countries in those smaller regions...but it is proving rather complicated so maybe it would be better to just determine our outer boundaries (do we include Arab League countries that are not part of MENA and do we include Turkic and Persian countries that are also not part of MENA?) i would like to do the whole huge region and even go into Pakistan. :D

lots of ideas here! keep chiming in!

I am so happy with the interaction :D

I guess Marieke explained it well !

I think by small number of regions , we can move more faster , each one has common culture somehow , concentration for a period of time on one of them can enrich book choices -some individual countries do not give much choices- and topics , jumping each month or more from part to part within 5 choices and get back can be fun , but we can stick to alphabetical tour but it will take long time .

We can have two axes , one for region or country and the other for topics ( like tiffany’s post) if you want , they can support each other?

List of regions:
1- Maghreb countries ( Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Mauritania )

2- African Red Sea Area (Egypt ,Sudan and the Horn of Africa)
3- the Levant or sham (Palestine/Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon)

4- the Arabian Peninsula(Bahrain, Kuwait ,Oman ,Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates ,Yemen), and Iraq

5- west Asia (Turkey , Iran and -stan countries )

Yes, we included Israel all along, Amanda, no worries about that.

@ Marieke: I love Pakistan :D

It fascinates me how Islam and Arab culture meets Indian and Hindu traditions. The end is result is amazing clothes, amazing architecture, and a people who have of poetry and story-telling in their blood :)

Amanda
I want to read about Pakistan and all that region too

We have a lot of options here :D

Nile daughter wrote: "Amanda
I want to read about Pakistan and all that region too

We have a lot of options here :D"

yay!

btw, i just read On the Grand Trunk Road: A Journey into South Asia...it was, i think, the first time i have read about Muslim-Hindu relations. very very interesting! :D

Nile Daughter said "We can have two axes , one for region or country and the other for topics ( like tiffany’s post) if you want , they can support each other? "

that might be an interesting way to do it...we can start off in one region and pick a topic to go along with it; then we could pick our own books according to our interests and availability and have a discussion about a bunch of different books...

I'm a big fan of -stan countries, I've always admired this region!

So we have a new moderator :D YaY!!Congratulations Nile Daughter :D :D

Since the name of the group is Middle east/ North Africa, Then I guess we better stick to the geographic categories..
In fact the name of the group itself suggests the original definition of Mideast.. That is the part that includes Countries starting from Egypt & Sudan, and ending with Turkey. In addition of course to "North Africa" of course.

hmmm...can we at least include Afghanistan and Pakistan?? :D

we could change the name of the group to MENA Extended.
8)

We can do anything.. I was just trying to make it easy for us to decide :D
But since most of us want to read more on central Asian countries, then why not? Let it be! The extended MENA then :)

I would LOVE to read more from the central Asian countries. "middle east" is a problematic term...

I would also like to read more from Kurdish areas...would be interesting to tackle that...some reading from Syria, others from Iraq, Turkey...is there a Kurdish population in Iran?

Oh my goodness. Too much for me to catch up on in this discussion... I am interested, although I have to read a lot for my "professional" self and don't get to a lot just for "fun." And anything outside, I suppose, the Arab League countries would be for fun.

But I'm willing to try....

Hi Marcia! I read a lot for work, too...but fiction is always fun! Do you consider fiction from Arab league countries fun? In any case, I think we are getting a consensus that we can include the central Asian countries as part of our notion of the middle east... :D

Haha, yes, otherwise why would it be my "job"? (http://arablit.wordpress.com).

I just mean, I am a literary critic by profession, specialty Arabic literature and Arabic children's literature. So it gets hard to find time (and motivation) to read non-Arab lit.