Reading the Chunksters discussion

I am opening this thread as a reminder to everyone that we will be starting this book on January 2, 2011

Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky.

Start date: January 2, 2011
End date: March 26, 2011

I am basing the following schedule on the edition that I own, which is the Vintage TPB, Pevear/Volkhonsky transation. 551 pages of text.




Schedule
Week 1, January 2 - January 8: Part One, Ch. I-II, pp. 3-27.
Week 2, January 9 - January 15: Part One, Ch. III-IV, pp. 27-52
Week 3, January 16 - January 22: Part One, Ch. V-VII, pp. 52-86
Week 4, January 23 - January 29: Part Two, Ch. I-II, pp. 89-117
Week 5, January 30 - February 5: Part Two, Ch. III-VI, pp. 117-174
Week 6, February 6 - February 1: Part Two, Ch. VII - Part Three, Ch. 2, pp. 175-222
Week 7, February 13 - February 19: Part Three, Ch. III-VI, pp. 222-278
Week 8, February 20 - February 26: Part Four, Ch. I-IV, pp. 281-331
Week 9, February 27 - March 5: Part Four, Ch. V - Part Five, Ch. I, pp. 331-378
Week 10, March 6 - March 12: Part Five, Ch. II-V, pp. 378-436
Week 11, March 13 - March 19: Part Six, Ch. I-V, pp. 439-497
Week 12, March 20 - March 26: Part Six, Ch. VI-End, pp. 498-551

This is the same thread we will be using for discussion.

Can't wait! Thanks for organizing this side read Loretta :)

I forgot all about this one! I'm having severe group read overload right now :)

Andrea, that's why (as I'm sure you've noticed) I pulled back from The Woman in White group read. I'm trying to wrap up several books I started a while ago (with some success--finished two this weekend!) before the end of the year. I knew The Woman in White would be continuing until 2011 no matter what. And, leading Crime & Punuishment and Lord of the Rings reads was already going to be a time-commitment, so I think, starting 1/1, I'm just going to read The Woman in White at my own pace, and try to pop in on the discussions when I can.

I'm in the same boat Loretta! I was wondering if you wanted me to take over Crime and Punishment since you already have The Hobbit and LOTR's going? I don't mind since The Stand ends this week.

I'm actually really excited to lead both. I just think that, as a result, I have to step back from reading The Woman in White on a week-to-week basis. I was enjoying it so much, that I think I'll just make it my main read for the first couple weeks of January (i.e. the book that I read every day or almost every day, rather than doing my "assignment" once a week). So I'll probably finish it pretty quickly as a result, mostly so I'm not reading 7 books at a time, LOL.

What's wrong with reading 7 books at a time? hahah People think I'm crazy when I tell them that I have many books going at the same time!

One of the other groups I lead is reading The Great Gatsby so I'm going to be up to my eears in reading classics for the next couple of months!

lol...I hear you Andrea, I usually have about 4 books going at a time. Loretta, It sounds like you have it all worked out. Did we already decide when we are starting LOTR? Or should I put up a poll??

I believe we're starting the 9th (or at least that's the date I posted earlier, and no one seemed to object).

I'm still not sure I'll be participating. I'm going to see how the Hobbit and my other obligations go first.

I am so ready to begin the new year with
Crime and Punishment and The Lord of the Rings.

I can handle 4 books at a time... but I think I was running with about 7 at one point, and that just got crazy, lol.

@ Kristina: Yay, glad to hear it. I need to do this week's Hobbit assignment. The first week (which was by far the longest) went by very quickly, but I worked crazy hours yesterday, so no reading time for me.

Loretta, I'm red in the face to say that at one point this year I had like 12+ books, 1 e-book, and 2 audio books going. I was like this is CRAZY STUPID!

LMAO... I'm actually imagining you looking at the pile of books stacked on the nightstand, saying that. :-D

You have no idea! I would get to the point where I would line them all up and read 25 pages of each just so I could keep the story in my memory...lol

POST BELOW FOR DISCUSSION OF WEEK 1, JANUARY 2-8: PART ONE, Ch. I-II, pp. 3-27

My thoughts for the first two chapters below. Beware spoilers.

- Not too much happened here. We were basically introduced to our main character, who we are told is quite attractive (the picture in my head is definitely a hottie), but who basically has an aversion to most of humanity (the aversion seeming to be some combination of nervousness and actual loathing).

- We spend pretty much the entire second chapter hearing the tale of Marmeladov, who had his life being ruined drive him to drink, and then his drinking ruin his life. I don't know if we were supposed to feel sympathy for him or not, but I certainly couldn't manage to do so, considering that his poverty (and somewhat bitchy wife) essentially drove his poor daughter, Sonya, to prostitution. Raskolnikov seemed to feel a rare moment of sympathy at the end there, leaving some money behind for the family.

- I was quickly drawn in by the Pevear/Volokhnosky translation, which I find very easy to read. I tabbed a couple quotations I really liked as I was reading, which i might get around to posting in a day or two.

- interesting that I feel like everytime I read a book from the mid-1800s, there's a large focus on the plight of the poor, no matter what country the author happens to be from (Russia, France, England). I feel liek I should read some essays from the period tha tmight give me some insight as to why that is.

Loretta pretty much summed it all up. Hopefully it picks up soon.

I'm sure it will, Kristina. I got the feeling that the second chapter at least was mostly about setting the tone/mood of the novel--people living in desperate situations doing despicable things.

Hi, I'd like to join you guys for this read. I'm a bit ahead since I started a few days ago but I'd still like to discuss it, and of course, I won't spoil what happens later on.

I found the first two chapters pretty slow, and had a lot of trouble deciphering what Marmeladov was talking about in the 2nd chapter. So he's left his family for five days after taking all the money to go drinking, even though his daughter's now a prostitute, who even gave him her earnings so he could drink. What an awful situation. :/

From the first chapter, I got the impression that Raskolnikov is not quite mentally stable, he's been isolating himself and has some sort of inner conflict. He seems like a decent guy (leaving money for Marmeladov) or at least is sympathetic to the plight of others, but seems to despise humanity in general because he sees all of its worst parts.

I am finding the book very interesting and managed to finish both chapters while giving my munchkin a bottle! hahaha!

I am curious about what Raskolnikov is up to, it seems like he is thinking of doing something rather naughty...I also felt sad as I read about Marmeladov and his family. Poverty and alcoholism, and the poor kids who are hungry and driven to prostitution because of his drinking, very sad.

Oh yeah, you gotta love the Russian names, my eyes just roll over all of the letters and i dont even try to pronounce them! :-)

I'm enjoying it so far. Everyone already summed up the first two chapters well.

Being Russian, I am very used to the names but I can totally see how all those letters/ names can be so distracting!!

Looking forward to reading more next week :)

POST BELOW FOR DISCUSSION OF WEEK 2, JANUARY 9-16: PART ONE, Ch. III-IV, pp. 27-52

I apologize but I am way behind on this one! I'm hoping to catch up this week so I can participate with you all.

Continuing to enjoy it! Finished week 2 assignment. Looking forward to next week's installment.

I finished too. Let's see what happens.....

I'm enjoying the writing and the story much more than I thought I would! Trying to get my mom to do this with me too...

Out of curiosity, what translation is everyone reading?

I've finished The hobbit now, so I can turn to this week's assigment of C&P. :)

This is my version Crime and Punishment

Kristina, that's the same translation as mine, just a different edition. i do like the way it flows.

Some people say that picking a translation can be a make-or-break thing, so I was wondering what everyone had had luck with.

I downloaded mine from iBooks and it says translator is Constance Garnett.

I agree with you Loretta. The read is pretty smooth. I picked this translation, d/t me reading Anna Karenina by the same group. I loved the book and the translation was great.

Yes, I'm going to be reading AK in the same translation as well, later this year.

I know they get all the hype, but I do sometimes wonder about a modern translator translating a text that is 150ish years old. I mostly believe that, of course, they're skilled enough to do so, but I do wonder if a contemporary doesn't have certain insights that have been lost to the years.

Of course, I could just try to teach myself Russian via Rosetta Stone or something, and read it in its original. (Yeah, right.) ;-)

And as long as I'm enjoying it, it shouldn't really matter, right?

I am really enjoying this as well. The letter from his mother was very interesting, as was his intense reaction to it. I am very curious to see what his next move is....possibly nothing. He seems like he blows hard in the moment, but that he doesn't actually follow through with anything.

After reading the comments you guys have made on the P/V translation, and doing some quick research on the net, I have decided to go ahead and get a copy of the P/V translation for this read. I'm getting W & P in the same translation and have AK coming in same translation too.

Years ago, my mom gave me a HUGE pile of Russian books which I kept around for awhile. Then, when I was clearing things out, she mentioned I could get rid if them, so I did! Ugh...now how I wish I would've kept them!!

POST BELOW FOR DISCUSSION OF WEEK 3, JANUARY 16-22: PART ONE, Ch. V-VII, pp. 52-86

All ready finished this chunk and i just have to say....wow. I can't believe what happened and I might have to peek ahead to see what is going to happen next. There are still a ton of pages left and that was a pretty major occurance!! I will say no more and post more comments when other people have finished so that I don't give anything away!

I was going to read this chunk on Friday...but now Trisha has made me curious.....

Very interesting!

(view spoiler)[I love how Dostoyevsky led up to the murder. The 'coincidences' Raskolnikov encounters leading up to his decision to put his loosely made plan into action. And then, how he is trapped in the apartment and gets a lucky break and escapes, and then gets to replace the axe with no one seeing him. Most everything (except for the return of the sister) seems to work in his favor...for now. Although he had this plan brewing for some time, it never felt to me like he was insane, a criminal...until now of course. But to even
think about it, even loosely planning something like this and then finding "coincidences" to encourage your plan into action I guess, obviously, means you are of a criminal mind. (hide spoiler)]

By the way, my mom makes kutya still and it really is quite yummy. In fact, I have some in my fridge now :)

Can't wait to read more next week!

Well, well, well.... Not even 200 pages in and we got some intense stuff going on. Interesting.

I fell a little behind last week, so see below for my comments from Week 2 and Week 3. I will only be hiding the most spoilerific of comments behind a spoiler warnering.

- The letter from his mother gave us a lot of insight I think. I was surprised to find out how well-loved he is, given his loathing for humanity in general.

- But then it turns out that his sister has been willingly sacrificing her happiness for his benefit (and their mother has been complicit in this), first in her teaching post and then in agreeing to marry Luzhin, for Raskolnikov's monetary benefit.

- Raskolnikov's loathing of humanity seems to mostly come from how he perceives that they treat the weaker members of society, for whom he has sympathy and is able to exhibit some feeling. See for example how he reacted to Marmeladov's daughter being forced to prostitute herself in Week 1. We see this in week 2 with his disgust at his mother's pushing Dunya (his sister) to sacrifice herself for his sake. We also see it in how he reacts to that young girl who has essentially been date-raped. We see it again in his dream about the horse (which I could barely stand, it made me feel so ill) and how he reacts to what people say about how Alonya treats her sister Lizetva.

- Raskolnikov also has something of a hero complex in regards to these downtrodden women and animals. He leaves the money for Marmeladov's daughter, he tries to help the drunk girl in the street, in his dreams he tries to rescue the horse, and part of his rationale for his actions against Alonya are how she treats Lizetva.

- (view spoiler)[So we finally get to the murder. I think we all knew this was coming. I have to say that I wans't really sad to see Alonya go, though the unnecessary death of Lizetva was unfortunate and sad. Also, he was a pretty incompetent murderer, wasn't he, not even closing the door and the like. And I literally laughed out loud when he wiped the blood on the red silk coat he found, thinking blood wouldn't show on red silk! That being said, Tasha, you are correct that he was incredibly lucky. (hide spoiler)]

- Does anyone have any thoughts on what kind of mental disorder Raskolnikov might have? I'm curious. He sleeps all day, so part of me thinks he might be depressed, and depression severe enough can lead to some delusional, irrational behavior.

- Also, do you think Dostoevsky intended for us to think Raskolnikov insane? Or, is he "evil"? Or, instead, is he of sound mind and has just been driven to his actions be the horrors of the world around him?

I'm not yet convinced that he is an insane criminal. I think he has too much compassion for those who are down-trodden and in similar or worse situations than him as evidenced by those comments you made, Loretta, about those women he helped and that dream he had of a horse. At this point, I'm looking at him as a victim of circumstance. NOT that I condone what he did, but I think he is depressed, he is very poor and making very rash decisions based on his present circumstances. To do this evil act, of course he has some 'evil' inside, but I'm not convinced he is criminally insane. He can still be held accountable for his actions, there is still a consciousness there. To me, someone criminally insane doesn't have ANY filters and I believe Raskolnikov does have filters and presence of mind.

On another note you made Loretta about R's mom and specifically his sister sacrificing themselves for him. This was definitely NOT uncommon in the Russians. Growing up, my grandmothers definitely sacrificed for their husbands (my grandfathers). I remember very clearly the sacrificing they did to make sure the men were happy and taken care of FIRST, then the kids, and then themselves (last).

I don't think Dostoevsky meant for Raskolnikov to have any specific mental disorder, just that he is obviously mentally unstable. But I do agree that he seems quite depressed. I also don't think he's ciminally insane or inherently evil, just that he has a lot of anger directed at the darker aspects of humanity, and this anger isolates him, which also makes him depressed, unstable, irrational, and all of this drives his actions.

Tasha and ayanami--I think you are correct. Raskolnikov is not inherently irrational, I think, but rather filled with rage at the unfair treatment he perceives everywhere around him.

I hope we find out more about his earlier life i.e. meeting his mother and sister to get a better understanding of how he was raised. And I'm assuming his father is dead, though I do not believe that this has been confirmed?

POST BELOW FOR DISCUSSION OF WEEK 4, JANUARY 23-29: PART TWO, Ch. I-II, pp. 89-117
Reminder to everyone: this is our last "short" week (reading ~25 pages). Starting with week 5, we will be closer to ~50 pages a week. Please let me know if the increase in length will be a problem for any of you, and we can adjust the schedule accordingly. Or, alternately, if you're excited to read more each week, let me know that too. :)

I do not know about everyone else, but I am excited about reading more in a week. Crime and Punishment is starting to get good and it pains me to put it down after 30 pages. I know some people are extremely busy so I would be happy with anything.

I have read the next installment, but I will wait until everyone has read before discussing.

I'm really busy myself (just got off a 14 hour day...), but I think 50 pages is manageable. I've been reading the 30 page chunks in about 1-1.5 hours on the weekends, so I don't think a 2 hour commitment once we bump ourselves up to 50 pages a week is outlandish.

Also, thanks for being so considerate about spoilers. :) You can go ahead and post if you'd like, and just set off your thoughts with a spoiler warning in bold or caps or somesuch.

It's been a great read so far so increasing the page count is fine by me!

I am afraid that I have already made it to Part 3 - the pages just seem to fly by as I am reading! I don't want to give anything away, but I really think that it is Raskolnikov's guilt that is driving him crazy. Lets consider how he was acting when he received the summoms to the police station, and completly imagining the landlady being beaten. It almost reminds me a little of "The Tell-Tale Heart".

That is what this section reminds me of!! The Tell-Tale Heart I totally agree with you Trisha. His guilt was killing me when he moved that stone and placed all that stuff including the purse. Then he preceded to laugh like a lunatic.