Batman discussion

Did you see the movie also? Which was better---book or movie?
Gale Laure
Author

For my money I prefer the comic, but I do think the movie is good. Just that the comic has a tighter plot and some great lines.
Movie was "influenced" by the book.
The comic has 4 stories that run together and was one of the vanguard of the '80s Renaissance. I think, now folk that cut their comic teeth during this period are making films, we are finally getting the darker and more adult versions of the stories.
Have you read FM's Batman: Year One? Well worth a look.
Anyway, they are both entirely different mediums (as well as stories) and to do a straight port of one to the other would be difficult...mind you Sin City was almost frame for frame perfect.

This is more than a classic comicbook it's become a template for many other comics as well as films since it appeared

Its surprising to me that after more than seventy years- several generations have been able to put their own spin on the character and still keep the basic core intact. Which is one of the simplest of them all. A man's entire life is changed forever when he witnesses his parents get killed before his eyes. Talk about an unfinished life! And yet... what would have happened to all those lives the batman has helped all these years if Wayne's mom and dad would have just decided to stay home that evening, long ago?

Movie Dark Knight was excellent

The movie is not the same as the book.

Also, comics and movies are different things. You might as well ask "Which are better, comics or movies."

Anyway, both were good for different reasons.

It's really hard to compare, because they were such different beasts. The movie was excellent because it was the first "epic" Batman movie based on a grittier reality. The comic book tells a much more different story that is political in very different ways and deals with a Batman we are unused to seeing--aging and struggling to find himself in old age.

They really are two different beasts.

Gale wrote: "Did you see the movie also? Which was better---book or movie?
Gale Laure
Author"
I think Movie, what u think?

Which book compared to which movie? There have been thousands of Batman stories since 1939, in comics, on TV, in film and in video games. The character, has been portrayed in widely varying ways (sometimes dark, other times comical), and has had highs and lows in each format.

None of the 6 most-recent Batman movies have been adaptations of previous stories in the comics. Yes, they have taken elements (character origins, mainly, and even these aren't followed to the letter), but the stories are otherwise fresh.

I've heard rumors that The Dark Knight Rises could be 'loosely' based on this graphic novel. I sure hope that is true because I really loved the novel.

What the hell is going on in this thread? The Dark Knight Returns has yet to be adapted to screen save for obvious references on the animated series. It's an influence on Nolan's films if only because it's a dark and gritty portrayal of Batman rather than the campy sunny detective of the 60s. The Dark Knight Returns espouses a libertarian crypto-fascist Batman while Nolan's Batman films portray a Batman torn between a greater good and a personal good. Certainly the visual style isn't an influence and neither are the politics, so the only influence must be in the perceived maturity of Batman....

Also, and this might be totally picking a fight, but the term "graphic novel" is totally asinine, especially in consideration of Miller's The Dark Knight Returns which was released serially. Graphic novel is the term people employ to protect themselves against being associated with fans of comics.

@macgregor
Well thank for pointing out your opinion on the term "graphic novel." Personally I wasn't trying to protect myself from anything. I've just recently started reading older comics. I was speaking of a few movie site reviews that I've read about the supposed plot of the new movie and how Nolan might have taken one or two things from this comic to put into the storyline along with the character Bane, who in the movie is portrayed as a terrorist rather than his character in the original comics. The things I've read online, while probably not accurate, still suggest that along with the whole back breaking thing with Bane in Batman: Knightfall, there might be some ideas taken from the gang leader character in The Dark Knight Returns. Even if this isn't true, it's an entertaining thought to talk about none the less. True your statement did sound like you were picking a fight, and honestly the only thing asinine is nit-picking word usage in user comments on a website about books, which in nature are up to the reader to interpret for themselves. I'll continue to use the words "graphic novel" whenever because honestly, I don't care... If Frank Miller writes me a note demanding that I send him back my copy of the comic I purchased and thoroughly enjoyed, of which he is probably still being paid royalties for, because I called it a "graphic novel" then I will stop using those words. But until then please stop trolling the internet with your nit-picking ways and if you really have a problem with this, please fill out this form and have a nice day sir.

http://lafinjack.net/images/random/fo...

It's a shame that Bane is mostly remembered for his breaking of Batman's back, considering he's a fairly versatile character, and Gail Simone did some amazing work with the character in the pages of Secret Six. I hope that Knightfall doesn't make it into Nolan's film at all, as I think Knightfall is truly indicative of the 90s excess and grand guignol.

I'm not trolling, Luke. If I had been trolling, I wouldn't have articulated myself so clearly, and I also wouldn't have couched my statement in conditionals.

"Graphic novel" implies one singular work. The Dark Knight Returns was released serially. Ergo, not a graphic novel. It's a term that's come into popular usage but has little use. I liken it to people saying, "let's dialogue about this" or "let's utilize this". It's jargon but without meaning.

Also, if you think I'm butthurt, then you've clearly spent little time outside of 4chan.

Burton's Batman took some inspiration from this. The deadly laughing gas, the balloons. But there is no official movie for this book.

I agree Bane is a very versatile character. I'm not sure if I'll even like how he is portrayed in the movie simply as a terrorist. The whole issue of his superhuman strength is also changed by Nolan. In the movie apparently he'll have this mask on that exposes him to a gas that makes him impervious to pain, rather than a system that pumps Venom into his body. I still like to see connections between the two though. Continuity has never been a huge concern between movies and comics.

I am assuming that the OP meant TDKR vs TDK movie. If so then I pick TDHR. It's monumental storyline and battle between Bruce and Clark is a landmark in comic book storytelling. TDK was amazing, the best Batman film ever but TDKR pips it.

I love that Miller portrays Superman as the government's bitch.

Will wrote: "I love that Miller portrays Superman as the government's bitch."

Haha, yeah. I'm surprised DC let him get away with it. Superman was pretty much DC's golden boy for years.

this book was never made into a film. however, i could see a great talented director in 2020 making an adaptation of this. it would kick fucking ass since no one has EVER done an "old age" batman. i think the director and writing team would have to be marvelous and it would have to be a standalone effort. I love this book. 5/5

"Graphic novel" implies one singular work. The Dark Knight Returns was released serially. Ergo, not a graphic novel. It's a term that's come into popular usage but has little use. I liken it to people saying, "let's dialogue about this" or "let's utilize this". It's jargon but without meaning."

It was published serially–so were most of Dickens' novels–but conceived and written as a single, sustained piece of fiction, in four chapters. The term 'graphic novel' is entirely appropriate.

Regarding 'dialogue', I agree.

I think Nolan's films, and to a lesser extent Burton's, draw a lot of their incidental imagery (Gordon's look, for example) and concept of the Batman character from Miller's work.

Do we consider any work released serially to be a graphic novel when it was potentially conceived as a single sustained piece of fiction?

For example, the Infinity Crusade crossover, specifically the issues in the Warlock series and the Warlock and the Infinity Watch issues. Both of the series specific issues directly follow from the miniseries and were conceived to be read as one large work but with chapters in different books. I don't think it's totally ridiculous to say that the Infinity Crusade is not a graphic novel.

edited for minor grammatical error

macgregor wrote: "Do we consider any work released serially to be a graphic novel when it was potentially conceived as a single sustain piece of fiction?

For example, the Infinity Crusade crossover, specifically t..."

I have never heard of Infinity Crusade and don't have an opinion about what it is or isn't.

William wrote: "I have never heard of Infinity Crusade and don't have an opinion about what it is or isn't. "

It's an illustrative example to show that the term has so little meaning as to be useless.

Is the point here that this book is paired with the Dark Knight? Because they are really very different. Or are we talking the comics versus the movies in general?

The Dark Knight Rises (animated) part one is released on the 25th September. Please don't dismiss the animated adaptations as they are always much closer versions to the original source material. If you've never seen them, check out the Batman animated series from the 90's, fantastic artwork.

Much closer to the original source material? They're pretty much exactly the same.

I watched the Batman Year One animated movie and didn't like it much. Then I read the comic book and loved it. I don't know, I guess I just enjoy comics more than animated movies.

Yeah, I don't get it. This comic has no relation to the Christopher Nolan films. The Nolan film(s) are not adaptations of this comic.

Nolan was mildly inspired by this and and other Batman comic books, but other than that, there is no comparison.

The DC animated films are great, there are quite a few and they are closer to the comics than the spin that Nolan or Burton as film directors put on them.
The closest film adaptations are Watchmen and 300 both by Snyder, and perhaps Sin city. Worst comic adaptation in my opinion is The Spirit, anyone got a worse superhero movie?

Worst comic adaptation, or just plain worse superhero movie? Because I think we all can agree that "Batman and Robin" was the worst superhero movie ever made. That or "Supergirl." And "Catwoman," too!

I agree the Halle Berry Catwoman was atrocious, so far add Spirit to that mix and we have nearly a shift of rubbish to sit through!!

As faithful as Snyder was to the source material, his Watchmen movie somehow lacked the heart of the book, all flash and CGI without the soul. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was perhaps the worst adpatation of all time, no wonder Alan Moore removed his name from adaptation of his work since.

Was very disappointed with Wanted! The comic was great yet the film was so different, Kick Ass was a good adap.
My all time fave superhero film has to be The Avengers (Assemble)

Matt wrote: "As faithful as Snyder was to the source material, his Watchmen movie somehow lacked the heart of the book, all flash and CGI without the soul. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was perhaps the ..."

Right on about The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie. I haven't read the graphic novels, but I watched the movie, and it was vile. I was thirteen or so when I watched it, and I couldn't even make it to the end.

I would also nominate "Captain America" for a bad superhero movie - no, not the recently released one, but the one made in 1990. Pretty bad.

My all time favorite superhero movie is The Dark Knight, followed by Dark Knight Rises, and then the Avengers and Iron Man.

Like to see some good pulp hero films, such as a decent serious Doc Savage and a better Shadow film and a new Tarzan. John Carter was great, i really liked it.

I would recommend that any Batman fans check out the 90's animated series, superbly drawn artwork with great stories. As much as I love Nolan's work on his trilogy for their realism, Burton's two movies capture the gothic graphic novel feel in a different but equal way. Alan Moore's League books are an aquired taste for serious fans of the artform.

Managed through an old friend from film school to watch a screener copy of "The Dark Knight Returns Part 1", a very worthy attempt to film the seminal graphic novel. Excellent artwork, story and direction, Peter Weller is very good as the voice of the aging Batman. Would recommend that everyone reads the book before watching, as the tone is very different to other animated adaptations from the Batman universe.

Matt wrote: "Managed through an old friend from film school to watch a screener copy of "The Dark Knight Returns Part 1", a very worthy attempt to film the seminal graphic novel. Excellent artwork, story and di..."

I was wondering about this adaptation, so thank you for giving us this update. I'll have to find a way to watch it.

Oh, and I second the recommendation for Batman: The Animated Series! Just a genius show. They treated their audience lie adults and made the show watchable for everyone, kids and adult Batman fans alike. And it's them that we have to thank for Harley Quinn. :)

Anybody like the Birds of Prey mini series? Very hard to get in the UK.
Had to watch it in bits via YouTube. Agree about the animated Batman.

The three feature length movies that came from the 90's animated series, "Mystery of the catwoman, Sub-zero and Mask of the Phantasm are all in the same vein as the series. Paul Dini was the driving force so I would always look for his name to be attached to any animated work. Whilst I thought that the Batman Beyond series was ok, the Return of the Joker movie is one of the best feature length offerings out there.

Don't know why we are yet to see adaptations of "Knightfall" and "Hush" two of the best graphic novel story arcs.

Adaptations are hard.

A part of me doesn't want that to happen. Why can't the comics stay comics?



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I think Year One and Batman Begins had more similarity in the tone and mood of the story and Gotham city, compared to TDKR vs TDK.

Rahul wrote: "I think Year One and Batman Begins had more similarity in the tone and mood of the story and Gotham city, compared to TDKR vs TDK."

agreed.

Rahul wrote: "I think Year One and Batman Begins had more similarity in the tone and mood of the story and Gotham city, compared to TDKR vs TDK."

I concur, although I think The Dark Knight Rises and The Dark Knight Returns are almost as similar in themes and story.

I have not seen the animated version of The Dark Knight Returns. But I can see that TDKR was based on it, as well as using the Knightfall storyline (I really didn't like that one). I agree that Bane is a versatile character much like all of Batman villains. But I do feel that Batman stories sometimes hard to put to screen considering he's basically the David Bowie of superheroes even thou I really enjoyed Nolan's take on him!!

The Dark Knight Returns parts 1&2 are very good, especially part 2 as it does not shy away from the graphic violence of the novels. Seeing the jOker rampaging through the carnival shooting people dead at random is really quite shocking for an animated feature.

I agree that the "Knightfall" aspects of Nolans TDKR were not good, it is too important of a storyline to carve it up into pieces in order to add it into a movie. Whilst I loved "Begins" and "Dark Knight" I couldn't help but feel disapointed by the end of the trilogy. TDKR felt like an sequal in that it was overblown and left the character development behind in favour of set-pieces and explosions.