Kiwi Readers discussion

Hi,
So I belong to the Saturday Book Chat group in Manukau City and over the years we've explored a number of New Zealand authors. It would be great to hear from anyone whose also read...

- The 10pm Question by Kate de Goldi
- Denniston Rose by Jenny Pattrick
- A Dangerous Vine by Barbara Ewing

These were all favourites of mine and were well received overall by the group but there are still some prejudices amongst them about Kiwi authors.
Megan

Is that the one at Botany library?

The only one of those books I've read is The 10pm Question, which I only read a couple of weeks ago (decided to read something by a kiwi author for NZ Book Month). I loved it - and a personal bonus for me was I actually liked all the characters, which doesn't happen very often.

I've had someone tell me Denniston Rose was really good, maybe I'll add that to the (long) list :)

There's another source of prejudice against Kiwi authors - publishers and agents here will not consider anything by a New Zealand author that doesn't have New Zealand content.

I'm not talking rejection, they won't even look at it. Very frustrating.

Wow I didn't know that, how sucky :(

AIMEE: No the SBC is based at the Manurewa library. This will be it's 3rd year :)
I whole-heartedly agree about 10pm. Definitely my fav SBC book so far. Lil Frankie made me laugh, cry and sympathise.
Definitely recommend Denniston Rose. I've got the sequel 'Heart of Coal' on my (ever-expanding) list to read LOL.

PAT: Why is that? Do they think there is no market for anything other then iconic Kiwi content?

Megan wrote: "PAT: Why is that? Do they think there is no market for anything other then iconic Kiwi content?"

I'm not really sure. perhaps they feel that, as you suggested, there is prejudice against kiwi authors in a general context, but readers accept that books with a New Zealand content will have kiwi authors.

Nevertheless, it's very real - as I've found first hand. I approached all the main publishers (and a number of agents) and sight-unseen they said with no local content they would not consider my work. One even went so far as to suggest I rewrite my work in a local setting - without even knowing the context.

That is really outrageous. And extremely narrow minded of our Kiwi publishers. There is indeed a huge market for local content books by local authors. But they insult our intelligence in refusing to even entertain other subjects by our writers.

I approached a publisher for my first book, a fantasy one that I tossed aside (based in East Auckland). I don't blame them for turning it down with that one, it was bad :) But I was learning at that stage. Though, a couple of publishers told me to send in the manuscript for Behind the Hood (my second attempt at writing, but a realistic story) because it was getting a lot of attention on a HarperCollin's writers' website. But I decided not too, and went ahead and self-published because I wasn't willing to compromise, though, HarperCollins UK gave me a review for it, which I won because the book hit the number one spot out of thousands of books. With Graffiti Heaven (my second book) I didn't bother talking to any publishers at all, although HarperCollins UK are also going to review it because it also made it to the top of their website. It's connected to my other book, but is a prequel series. Both Behind the Hood and Graffiti Heaven are set in South Auckland. I used to live in Clendon Park in Manurewa. I named the suburbs in the two books Claydon and Rewa to give me flexibility. Plus, when I lived there the suburb looked slightly different. Behind the Hood is in a number of Auckland libraries, but Graffiti Heaven is very new so hasn't been ordered in yet.

By the way, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get an agent in New Zealand (I could only find 5 of them) to even look at your damn work. And when I tried overseas' agents I wasted so much time mucking around with them that in the end I got so pissed off I gave up. I couldn't be bothered with publishers after I got the run around by a few, which is another reason why I chose to self-publish. I just wanted my books to be read. P.S. My books are all professionally edited, one expense I chose to do.

Marita wrote: "By the way, it's IMPOSSIBLE to get an agent in New Zealand (I could only find 5 of them) to even look at your damn work. And when I tried overseas' agents I wasted so much time mucking around with ..."

Yeah I definitely hear you (had the same experience) and the publishers like HarperCollins Teen say subs only through an agent. THERE AREN'T ANY (except for Frances Plumpton) and she doesn't do teens! Lets face it NZ publishing is a little bit of PR for these firms. They don't give a shit about the NZ writers.

Greetings to you all.

The problem is money! NZ publishers can only give their authors a print run of 2,000 and must sell them all. New Zealand authors writing about NZ sell more readily, so I'm told. I went to the UK for agents and - please laugh - learned that I was too old and lived too far away. My unpublished novel won a critique from big name agency who could be honest because I wasn't querying them but receiving a prize. This is what they told me. Sigh! We writers can't win.

In the end I came to believe that finding an agent was a numbers' game and an Emperor's New Clothes story. My prize critique writing agent told me he receives up to 6,000 queries per year. Allowing that 90%-95% would be unpublishable it still left 300 publishable books of which he chose maybe one! The other agents in their agencies are in the same boat. The agent system has wobbled badly, particularly with epublishing doing so well.

Because I tutor writers I have hesitated to self publish because of the Kiwi attitude to self publishing. The traditional publishers' and agents' mantra that if a novel is good enough it will be published is still believed.
BUT
I have writer pals also with publishable novels and no agent willing to take them on. We formed a writers' publishing co-operative - Writer's Choice - which acts like a publisher. We select or reject and edit properly. If the edited novel is up to our standard we give it the Writer's Choice stamp of Quality Fiction. The author may then self publish it and the book can carry this logo. Group power we hope will help us sell them. It's an experiment which we hope will grant us reasonable sales and a quality product.

Perhaps what publishers have forgotten is that readers want a good read and are far more willing to try anything which looks interesting. Whereas publishers want more of the same as that book which sold so well.

P.d.r. wrote: "Greetings to you all.

The problem is money! NZ publishers can only give their authors a print run of 2,000 and must sell them all. New Zealand authors writing about NZ sell more readily, so I'm t..."

Yes, the publishers do want more of the same, whereas sometimes new writers can't be classified under one genre, but may be doing totally different things. Sometimes it doesn't pay to break the mold.

But for me, to be fair on publishers I never sent my Behind the Lives or Graffiti Heaven books to them. Because some agents annoyed me so much, I decided to go the self-publishing way (although I do employ an editor). I probably should send my work to publishers, but I just want my books out there and self-publishing is quicker to achieve this.

Yes, I hate the attitude towards self-published authors. Just because there is a big named publisher backing one author and not another doesn't always means people will choose the traditionally published author's writing over the other. It's all to do with what the person is interested in reading. And often when someone picks up a book which has an interesting blurb they may not realise the book is self-published and will read it anyway. I think reviews are a great way to show how interesting a book is. Plus, interest in library patronage. In Auckland, where I am now, my books are constantly out, which I think says something. You write what people want to read, and they will read it regardless of the big publisher's stamp of approval.

A real problem is to help readers find your books. We hope our quality fiction logo and being Writer's Choice selected will encourage readers to at least download a sample and see.

My books are just going through the printing process and I have some orders for them from my local community and the libraries where I do volunteer work.

It's very hard to sell ebooks in NZ though! My ebook sales have been to Canada, the States, Australia and the UK. Not one in NZ.

Some of you know that Tui Allen stirred up we Kiwi Indie /self published authors who are ignored and have problems getting any PR in NZ.

Her thread on LinkedIn has led to a group of us supporting this idea that all Kiwi readers should be able to find all Kiwi books on one beautiful website and that indies should be side by side with trad published books.

A website is being built now by Tui. Kiwireads.org

She and I also applied to the Book Council who are putting out a new monthly email newsletter. We asked for a regular column for quality indies.

The co-editors of Booknotes Unbound have offered us space for a monthly list of quality indie books. The format will be a cover pic and a 2-3 sentence review/blurb for probably 4 to 6 books.

This is bloomin' marvellous and an opportunity we should leap at.

Tui and I can't do this alone.

We need a team of readers who love books and support indies and are willing to extoll quality indies to the world.
BUT
These readers must be experienced reviewers who can, and are willing, to reject a book as not up to publishing standard. I suggest that a rejected book is looked at by two or three before total rejection!

We also need quality indie books to read and suggest.

This is a marvellous way to support NZ writers. Now's the time help us. Please offer support as a reader or with suggestions of quality NZ indie books to review.

And please note. Wouldn't it be great as a reader to be able to go to one website and find all the Kiwi books? And wouldn't it be wonderful to read reviews about the quality indies in the Book Council newsletter and stop wasting your money buying ebooks which are cheap but are not well written or produced?

I've just created a New Zealand ebook group to talk about how NZ literature transitions to electronic and to provide a place to promote ebooks.

Sounds fun, Peter. Do you meet online?

Kiwireads sounds like a great idea.

I used to work for Hodder Moa Beckett back in the 90s, and it was certainly difficult to get fiction published with them. The question that got asked is "Can we sell 5000 of these?" If the answer was "probably not", even if it was a well-written book, we passed. (I wasn't the decision-maker, I hasten to add.)

I've subscribed to the Kiwireads RSS feed and I'll be watching for it as it gears up.

How are you planning to sort out the "quality indies"? By reading them? Or will you have some other kind of requirement like a minimum number of reviews with at least a 4-star average, like some of the promo sites do?

Calling all kiwi authors....
Please share this link in your discussion groups, via email and social media.

Submissions are open!!

Phantom Feather Press are opening their doors to short story submissions for a print edition of Twisty Christmas Tales.
Well-written, offbeat, zany Christmas tales with a kiwi flavour or a fantastical twist will earn you a spot in this festive book for 8—12 year olds and their families. So rein in those mischievous elves, decorate the pohutakawa and sprinkle your enchanted pavlova with fairy dust. Get in the spirit of tinsel and magic as you weave Christmas wonder for eager children!

Stories must be suitable for children 8-12 years old. Maximum word count 1,500.

Have fun creating crazy Christmas capers! Submissions close 22 June 2014.

Submission details and guidelines here:
http://phantomfeatherpress.wordpress....

Anyone noticed that the Guardian is doing a monthly Best of Indies comp and giving the winner a boost in the newspaper.

Got to be resident in the UK though. Now which paper can we persuade to that here!?!

:) sounds good.

Any one need markets. I write about them for the UK Writer's News and so have a new lot each month. Short stories, Small Presses, poetry and novellas I could post.

P.d.r., I'm always on the lookout for short story markets, though I mostly get them from the Submission Grinder.

Ah. Duotrope is good too.
Try these. Some of these zines pay!

‘The Fog Horn’ publishes fiction, four short stories a month, by writers ranging from Hollywood pros to new voices. Response time is around thirty days for acceptances only. Payment is US$1,000 for ‘exclusive rights to your story for 90 days, and non-exclusive rights forever.’

Details: ‘The Fog Horn’, website: http://thefoghornmagazine.com;
guidelines: http://thefoghornmagazine.com/submit; submit online using their system.

HARK is a new online magazine of poetry and short fiction based between Wales and London. The two editors are ‘interested in writing with sharp edges, refracted light, odd insides.’

Details: HARK Magazine; website: http://www.harkmagazine.org; email submissions to: harkeditor@outlook.com;
guidelines at: http://69.195.124.116/~harkmaga/submi...

Another new zine is Rivet from Red Bridge Press. It publishes fiction, poetry, and nonfiction ‘from beyond the mainstream.’ These editors want ‘genre-bending work that takes readers into strange landscapes and offers new perspectives on the everyday.’

Details: Rivet: The Journal of Writing That Risks,
website: http://rivetjournal.com; submissions online at the website.

‘Buried Letter Press’ calls itself ‘The extravagant arts and criticism bazaar’ which accepts both art and criticism. The website publishes ‘literary journalism, artistic explication, as well as fine, creative works of poetry, short fiction, creative nonfiction, play-writing, and visual art.’

Details: ‘Buried Letter Press’, website: http://buriedletter.com;
guidelines: http://buriedletter.com/submissions; submit online using their system.

‘This Very Breath’ is a flash fiction and nonfiction journal. It was created for the purpose of publishing emotionally engaging short stories.

Details: ‘This Very Breath’, website: http://www.thisverybreath.com; guidelines: http://www.thisverybreath.com/submiss... submissions at the website.

‘Twenty-Four Hours’ is produced by a group of writers, visual artists, and musicians who share some common ground: aesthetically, politically, artistically or otherwise.

Details: ‘Twenty-Four Hours’, website: http://twentyfourhoursonline.org;
guidelines: http://twentyfourhoursonline.org/tfh-...
email subs to: tfhsubmissions@gmail.com

I used to use Duotrope until they demonstrated that they didn't understand how the Internet works. (By that I mean: part of what made their service valuable was the large number of people who used it, so by making large parts of it available only to those who paid, they instantly made it less valuable. There are much smarter ways to monetise, in my opinion.)

Thanks for those suggestions, I will give The Fog Horn a look.

Hello All
Just joined the group to find out what's happening in the literary world back in NZ as I'm currently living in France. I too have had to become an indie publisher and when that concerns a memoir it can get expensive with legal costs (to avoid defamation)and professional editing etc.

I spend hours every night on marketing with limited response. Discoverablilty is the holy grail. I have the added problem of writing in English but living in a non-anglophone country, which is limiting.

Comments about NZ publishers and media are spot on, sigh. There's plenty of NZ content in my latest book but so far no response.

Have been asked by an online newspaper based in Monaco to send a copy of my book for a possible review - highlight of the month.

If any of you are curious as to why I'm in France and still hanging on here by my teeth, despite my improbable experiences I'm in paperback and eformats.

Very interested in other NZ authors' experiences with publishing and marketing.

Frances in France.
This is what I have learnt re PR and selling your books.
For this new novel I’m looking at PR like this. It’s what I think will work based on what I’ve been learning:

1
Testing the opening on readers at GR and librarything and anyone I’ve good contact with at LinkedIn and Google plus.
6 months before launch.
2
Testing different covers, same places as above.
5 months before launch.
3
Offering giveaways on GR, Librarything, Readers in the Know and other sites which look decent places where my type of readers are.
6, 5 and 4 months before launch.
4
Pals group doing a Beta read. Rewarded with free book. Expect reviews but don’t insist and ask if they do to put ‘em up on novel launch date.
6, 5 and 4 months before launch.
5
Blogging and sharing blogs and historical fiction sites with history snippets affecting/used in/amusing/of interest. Using our co-op group links.
3,2, and 1 month(s) before launch.
6
Tweets, Google plus historical writing and fiction and history sites, Linked In, comments on groups threads, co-ops etc.
4 weeks and down to launch date.
7.
Local newspapers, national media, radio and Booksellers journal in New Zealand.
4 weeks and down to launch date.
8
Launch party in the local library and maybe in the ‘big cities’ of Dunedin and Christchurch

A colleague added this but she has been publishing longer and has collected readers from her sign in at her website so does email newsletters.

Tell your readers when you start writing the next book,
Allow them to vote on various cover options,
Do a cover reveal, hyping it for a few days before you reveal,
Share the first chapter when it is ready,
Pay an illustrator on Fiverr.com to paint a scene from your book and share it with your readers,
Keep your readers updated through the process (half way done, almost done, proofreading, editing, formatting, etc...)
Ask your mailing list for a few advance copy reviewers,
Do a countdown a week before your book launches,

Thanks pdr. Have done much of this though not in the time frame suggested. Launch parties in NZ are impossible for me, of course. I may approach the NZ embassy in Paris.

Most of my efforts have been at launch and afterwards so building traction is going to take a long time. As you know, this is all extremely time consuming and I have a day-job but will persist.
Thanks for your reply.

P.d.r. wrote: "Frances in France.
This is what I have learnt re PR and selling your books.
For this new novel I’m looking at PR like this. It’s what I think will work based on what I’ve been learning:

1
Testing ..."

Well, as I said that was my list. In France I do not know how many people want English books. Very sniffy about their language the French. But you could really get into Goodreads and being visible and gaining readers and checking out the 59 (I've found so far) email newsletters to readers. Get your promos out on those.
Do you know IndiesUnlimited.com?
They have a marvellous list of sites for reives and one for email newsletters.

P.D.R. wrote: "Some of you know that Tui Allen stirred up we Kiwi Indie /self published authors who are ignored and have problems getting any PR in NZ.

Her thread on LinkedIn has led to a group of us supporting ..."

Hi PDR, what happened to KiwiReads?

Also a response to older thread- P.D.R.'s comment "Some of you know that Tui Allen stirred up we Kiwi Indie /self published authors who are ignored and have problems getting any PR in NZ.

Her thread on LinkedIn has led to a group of us supporting this idea that all Kiwi readers should be able to find all Kiwi books on one beautiful website and that indies should be side by side with trad published books.

A website is being built now by Tui. Kiwireads.org

She and I also applied to the Book Council who are putting out a new monthly email newsletter. We asked for a regular column for quality indies.

The co-editors of Booknotes Unbound have offered us space for a monthly list of quality indie books. The format will be a cover pic and a 2-3 sentence review/blurb for probably 4 to 6 books.

This is bloomin' marvellous and an opportunity we should leap at."
It sounds like a fantastic idea. Did you not get enough support back in the day? I'd be up for helping if it's still viable at all...

Fake Baby by Amy McDaid,
Her first book and it's just come out