The Atheist Book Club discussion

If you care to, this is the place to tell your fellow heathens a bit about yourself.

I'm 22 and an on-again, off-again university fine arts student in Missouri (US). I'm a science lover and am thinking of switching to a science major when I go back to school. I've never been religious or a theist; the only exposure I had to religion as a young child was the Baha'i events I attended with my dad.

I'm a third generation American atheist (my grandparents left their religion in the old country along with some of their birth names). My only religious experiences in childhood were when my parents made me dress up in nice clothes in order to join the Easter egg hunt at the local Protestant church. My earliest memory of religion is when a first-grade classmate informed that if she were like me (an atheist) she would kill herself.

It's always seemed to me that God is a human invention, and that if you were to take God out of any equation, that equation would not change at all. People are 'good' or 'evil' all on their own without any external agencies. Heaven and hell only make sense if you really think this world is some sort of experimental dollhouse. If people have to teach their children this nonsense in order to make them behave, I only wish they would clean up the mess as they do with Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

The best book I ever read about religion was 'Why I Am Not A Christian' by Bertrand Russell. I have never read any atheist fiction I really loved, which is why I wrote my own - 'Orange Car with Stripes' and 'Missy Tonight', two short novels which are available for free from Smashwords.com and Feedbooks.com. These books are unabashedly about atheists and atheist and are (hopefully) funny! People take religion seriously, which is absurd. Atheists should not match that solemnity. True, historically they've tortured and murdered us and still do in some places, but they deserve ridicule for that, not philosophizing or reasoning. They're idiots and should be laughed at.

Well, not always. I do have a soft spot for the more "good Jesus" Christians, who really do buy into the socialist friendly Jesus. If they were all like that and practiced what they preached, it would be an improvement, and the same would be true for Moslems and the Koran's instructions on tolerance.

I'm not about abolishing religion - I just don't want religion to be about abolishing me or making laws or public policy.

Tom wrote: "They're idiots and should be laughed at."

Hallelujah! ;)

Welcome and nice to meet you.

I am a lifelong Atheist from the UK.

Apart from campaigning on various issues (human/animal rights), I'm also interested in music, science fiction (esp. Doctor Who and Farscape).

Greetings my fellow heathens! I am a de-converted former Christian (Independent Baptist, King James Bible-waving, street preaching, Bible Institute graduate, confrontational witnessing, etc., etc. etc.) fundamentalist. Let me be the first to say, there is hope for anybody!!

I officially announced my de-converion (i.e., relieved myself as Sunday School teacher, AWANA instructor, church member) and family in Nov. of 2009 and have no regrets whatsoever. I have used this quote by Thomas Paine as a sort of motto: "It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving, it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe."

It was my love of reading that took my mind beyond the scope of a very narrow, limited and ignorant world view to the free-thinking, open-minded atheism I enjoy today! Freedom from religion has been a wonderful, liberating experience for both myself and my family. My wife and I are both unashamed atheists and are raising our two young children to be questioning freethinkers.

Today I continue to enjoy reading and learning. I am fascinated by the philosophy of religion, religious debates and science. As a former theist, I have both disdain for the ignorance propagated by religion and compassion for the delusional adherents. Of course, it all sure provides me with fun and interesting hobby.

That's it in a nutshell. I'm glad to be here amongst fellow atheists and book-lovers! :^D

Hi Bob,

welcome to freedom. Can I recommend a book to you? A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell is a great guide to all the important thinkers from pre-Greeks to Satre & it's in easy essay form.

"As I went out this morning, to breathe the air around Tom Paine." B.Dylan

David wrote: "Hi Bob,

welcome to freedom. Can I recommend a book to you? A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell is a great guide to all the important thinkers from pre-Greeks to Satre & it's in e..."

Hello David,

I appreciate the recommendation and will surely pick up that book.

Fascinating quote by the way. I went and read the lyrics and some of the comments about what they mean. Interesting stuff.

Hi people: I'm from the same county, Norfolk, in England, where Tom Paine was born. Bob: I can imagine the 'relief from bondage' you describe, have you been able to negotiate new house rules? It must be wonderful to be able to explore & study what happened prior to 5000 years ago. A couple of years ago the BBC did a documentary, produced & narrated by Jonathan Miller, about the history of disbelievers, which goes back way beyond christianity.
Who said: 'If god didn't exist we would need to invent him.' And I always fancied killing that hate monger Ian Paisley, then standing up in court & arguing that it wasn't murder, I'd done him the favour of carrying out a christian act & sending him to his heaven early.

Oh, our house runs so much more smoothly. My wife maintained a nominal Christian lifestyle only to keep the peace (even though her nominal devotion only frustrated me). Now that she is no longer married to a bible-thumping preacher she has flourished as a wife and person. She is now free (and encouraged) to express herself as she truly is. She has since begun to pursue her dream of playing music and is loving it. We communicate much better and we have had some fabulous discussions about god and religion. She has always been convinced of her unbelief but now has a husband that lets her (and again, encourages her to) express it openly. She has come out of the closet, so to speak, with her very religious evangelical family, which was no easy task for her.

In addition, I have enjoyed the most wonderful conversations with our 8 year old daughter as well. She was indoctrinated from birth so she is not convinced that there is NOT a god. So we chat about the argument from design (in a child like manner) among other popular theories. It is delightful! All the while our six year old son sits quietly and listens.

It is interesting that you mention the documentary by Jonathan Miller. Just two weeks ago I watched a six part series that came from that documentary entitled "The Atheism Tapes." It was excellent. I particularly like the interview with Colin McGinn. I have yet to see "The Brief History of Disbelief" but plan to.

LOL at your court defense. Funny how wonderful heaven is supposed to be and how no one is in a hurry to get there!

Bob, I'm curious as to how this change came about. Accounts of someone having 'found god' are common as muck but I've genuinely never heard one of the reverse effect. I know you described it as an outcome of reading, but what were you reading & how did it feel? Was it Darwin or some scientific treatise? Or philosophy? The first family discussion must have been v interesting too.

I became a born again Christian at the young age of 18. I had always been taught that the Bible was god's word and had never even doubted the existence of god my whole life. When I met someone who was well versed in scripture (a Baptist preacher), I was impressed and bought the whole thing hook, line and sinker. That was 27 years ago. I became a "rededicated" and seriously devoted Christian some years later in 2001. That's when I went to the Bible Institute (I still proudly display my "degree" in Biblical Studies above my bar at home) and began teaching and preaching regularly. I was very dedicated and read and studied many theological books and commentaries along with the Bible.

As a street evangelist I met many people who had a wide variety of ideas and opinions about god and the Bible. I realized that if I were going to answer their questions about "the one true god" I better know what they believe and why. It was this thinking that lured me out of my theological box. My first doubts had to do with the concept of hell. I could not reconcile the Bible with the orthodox teaching of an eternal hell and unending torment. Once I allowed myself to question what the Bible taught beyond what I had been taught, the doors were open for me to move a step beyond that.

It was during this time of allowing myself to question the Bible that I first learned (at an embarrassingly late age) of certain philosophical arguments against god and the Bible. I was fascinated! On a recommendation from a friend I read Common Sense by Thomas Paine. I began collecting and reading books on the philosophy of religion, faith and reason and atheism. I realized at this point I no longer believed what I professed to believe and soon admitted as much to my friends and fellow church members. This was, of course, surprising to many but refreshing to me. I was truly freed from the intellectual bondage of religious thought.

Once I had become an open unbeliever I no longer shied away from Dawkins God Delusion but greedily consumed it along with Dan Barker's Godless, Hitchins' God is Not Great, Sam Harris' End of Faith, George Smiths' Atheism - The Case Against God and many more. The flood gates were open. Instead of shunning philosophy and atheism I wholeheartedly embraced them - and continue to do so to this day.

As for the idea of origins, I am learning about evolution. It is a far more reasonable concept for me but I am admittedly unfamiliar with the scientific explanations of things having been brainwashed into the whole creation idea my entire life. Thank you Darwin, Dawkins, Dennett, etc. for helping me along in that area.

So, again, that's it in a nutshell - and people sure think I'm nuts! I like to think that I am growing and learning as I chart through life only now I allow reason to control the helm rather than emotional, mythological fairy tales. I don't have all the answers nor do I have a stronghold on truth but I sure enjoy asking the questions and seeking clarity in understanding a lot more than when I was an unquestioning, uncritical person of blind faith!

The search for 'truth' or 'meaning' is, I think, also a trip down a cul-de-sac. For me they're subjective & relative concepts. My relative truth is that life is a continuum of here & now moments, resulting from a collision of planets which left our moon as & where it is & our planet with a rich new mix of chemicals, which in turn produced oxygen, the root source of natural life. I also used to 'believe' that we couldn't be alone in infinity, the math suggested otherwise, but as deep space sensory exploration opened up & I began to see the unlikelihood of another planet such as ours being created I became sceptical about that too. Having grown up in a house where my agnostic father argued with my atheist mother, loudly & ferociously, my legacy was to always question everything & along my path there seemed to be an endless chain of religions which were in denial of the scientific evidence. One of the key books for me in my early life was the German Max Weber's The Spirit of Capitalism & The Protestant Ethic, which demonstrated how religion, politics & economics went hand in hand to conquer the 'uncivilised' countries & the continent of Africa. It gave me a clue, which an economics major friend of mine summarised as: "Look for the vested interest." Then, in London, on Hyde Park Corner (known famously as Speakers Corner)one Sunday, I got a history lesson from some Africans which forced home the adage: 'history is written by the victors.' Pretty soon I believed nothing I had been taught in school, except, I had an unfulfilled thirst for physics, so I read a lot of that until I realised, from flat earthers to big bangers, they could all be turned on their heads by 1 single piece of new information. One day I was trying to get my head around relativity theory when something just clicked together in my head & I realised that everything, absolutely everything, either depended on where you were looking at it from, or who was saying
it. Since then I've stuck with accepting that the hardest philosophical position to adopt is to accept that life is meaningless, except on the terms we wish to intepret by. And nothing has come along to alter that. I still question everything. But it does leave an important question: how then do we live our lives? I once picked up a book by Lenin, entitled What Is To Be Done. Didn't actually read the book, but it sat on my shelf until one night it occured to me that it might just have the most profound question ever, right there on the cover. We are, we must act, but how? To believe in nothing was a disquieting thing when I was young, but that eventually dissolved & left me very happy about where I am: on the edge of a biosphere, held together by gravity, fed by a sun, and beyond the reach of faiths or fools. On tv here a while back a young archeologist & geneticist called Dr Alice Walker put archeology, genetics & climate modelling together, set out from S Africa & demonstrated exactly how mankind spread out from there & encircled the globe. It was, for me, the last piece in the jigsaw. It didn't stop me enjoying the wonders of the universe or the effects of nature, but it finally answered several questions which I still had. Our brains & our ability to adapt made us No1. I was so pleased to hear how your beliefs changed, for several reasons, but primarily because it shows the power of the written word is not finished. Thanks.

deleted user wrote: "The search for 'truth' or 'meaning' is, I think, also a trip down a cul-de-sac. For me they're subjective & relative concepts. My relative truth is that life is a continuum of here & now moments, r..."

"Deleted User", have you read
The Moral Landscape: How Science Can Determine Human Values? I just started it; it looks like it might address some of the issues you raised. When we deny religion, we don't have to live without any moral guidelines. Science should be able to provide those guidelines.

I'd highly recommend to anyone the video series 'Letting Go of God' by Julia Sweeney - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqh53R...- a story of atheist awakening that is also very funny (she's a former Saturday Night Live cast member)

Hello All! Whew! What a relief it is to be able to admit it - I DON'T BELIEVE WE WERE CREATED BY A GOD!
I have many extremely intelligent friends - science and philosophy professors - who regularly attend church, and claim to believe in God AND Evolution. How can you possibly marry those two concepts? It's one or the other, buddy!
I am the product of an athiest father who went out of his way to mock religion AND a fundamentalist mother who was raised in a no-alcohol, no-card-playin', no movie-watchin' household. How'd that happen? Ya got me. They met at a CHURCH picnic, so go figure.
I was forced to attend church with my mother from an early age, where I learned that there would be no cats or dogs in Heaven and that I was only 1/2 a person until I married. She finally let me stop going when I was a teenager.
The only thing I miss about church is the sense of community, the feeling of belonging, and congregating with others who share the same beliefs. I've suggested to my athiest friends that we should meet once a week (perhaps on Sunday morning) to commune, but they'd rather stay in bed.
Anyway, again - whew! I can said it out loud, without fear of being ostracized - I AM AN ATHIEST!
Thanks for giving me this opportunity.

I know the feeling, Melki. Great, isn't it?

I know you people will think I'm crazy, but can't evolution be reconciled with the Bible (not that I believe in that particular fairy tale) by thinking of each day of creation as a metaphor for let's say a billion years?

I think it's insane, but won't those folks be laughing at me when they're Raptured on the 21st and all I get is the lousy BMW they left behind?

Perhaps there is a heaven, and it's guarded by a bouncer who only lets you in if you drank Dr. Pepper. Come on, it's no more far-fetched than ole St. Peter standing at the pearly gates...or the whole universe being a cosmic coincidence.

I'm hedging my bets. I'm picking up a six-pack right now.

Commander, there are a number of ways to reconcile evolution with the creation stories in the Bible. I'm not necessarily advocating this...it seems more healthy to me to simply recognize the creation stories as myths...but if a person is a dedicated Christian and absolutely must believe literally in the Bible, here's a way:

http://www.dubiousdisciple.com/2010/1...

Or here's a rather tongue-in-cheek attempt of mine to splice the two creation stories in the Bible together, just for fun:

http://www.dubiousdisciple.com/2011/0...

I tell you Lee, trying to make sense of the Bible is like trying to find a rhyme for orange.

There's no point in discussing The Bible with anyone. Yawn

Tom wrote: "There's no point in discussing The Bible with anyone. Yawn"

:) We're in a book club, dude. The Bible is only the most influential book in all of history. I find it endlessly fascinating. The Atheist Book Club would probably not exist without it.

Atheism is not about Christianity, dude, and the bible is one book among millions. Everything has already been said about it. Read another book sometime

Tom wrote: "Atheism is not about Christianity, dude, and the bible is one book among millions. Everything has already been said about it. Read another book sometime"

There's really no reason to be rude. You're being no more different than the very people you seem to despise.

Hi,

My name is Simon and i'm from Perth, Australia. I've been a atheist since birth and I cannot thank my parents enough raising me so. I have spent many years reading the holy books of almost every religion (including, Hindu and Tibetan Buddhism) and I have read nothing that can persuade me even the tiniest bit into becoming religious.

It is to my great loss though that i haven't read the great books by Atheists. Not even the famous ones like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and Bertrand Russell. This is something i am putting a stop to now.

I really look forward to taking part in your book club!

Simon

Lee wrote:
:) We're in a book club, dude. The Bible is only the most influential book in all of history. I find it endlessly fascinat..."


A very good point and one that definately shouldn't be lost. Since Christians overwhelmingly use that text to confront Atheists it is our responsibility to understand it and be able to refute any arguments Christians bring up because of it.

And the sad thing is that atheists tend to know more about the bible than christians do.

Hello everyone! I'm from Texas and have been living within the bible belt most of my life. My family was Catholic but my father was never particularly religious. It was my grandmother, aunt and cousin that tried to "save my soul." Thankfully they gave up and let me wander on my own. So I am an atheist, much to my cousin's dismay (the others have passed on). My husband is pretty much one, too. We value education and being informed about the world. We just wish others did, too.

I just say the Texas and US pledge in their original formats without the under God bit. I'm sad that I will be abandoning you in Texas.

Bad Amy! Bad, bad, bad Amy!

Jennifer wrote: "Bad Amy! Bad, bad, bad Amy!"

You can come to Minnesota any time.

Minnesota? Land of Michele Bachmann?
Just kidding, Amy. We all have my state, Pennnsylvania to thank for Rick Santorum, and he's even scarier.

Howdy, y'all! Atheist in the south. Husband and I love Bart Ehrman stuff (can't get enough of that bible!). I enjoy reading popular science stuff. Hi, Amy! Thanks for the group hint! I've read some Hitchens and am really impressed with his erudition.

Jennifer wrote: "And the sad thing is that atheists tend to know more about the bible than christians do."
:) Unfortunately, I find this to be true.

Thankfully, Michelle is in the minority in Minnesota.
Melki wrote: "Minnesota? Land of Michele Bachmann?
Just kidding, Amy. We all have my state, Pennnsylvania to thank for Rick Santorum, and he's even scarier."

Marfita wrote: "Howdy, y'all! Atheist in the south. Husband and I love Bart Ehrman stuff (can't get enough of that bible!). I enjoy reading popular science stuff. Hi, Amy! Thanks for the group hint! I've read some..."

I just discovered it myself. Didn't realize you were from the South as well. How's SL these days?

Hi everyone

My name is Christos (yeah the anointed one)

I am a greek baptised greek orthodox christian, without my consent, when I was to young to protest against it.

I guess I am an atheist I do not believe in god, astrology, ghosts, vampires, werewolfs, visiting aliens, life after death and career politicians.

Welcome Christos!
Do I have your permission to put that last line on a T-shirt? It's the best laugh I've had in a while.

Melki wrote: "Welcome Christos!
Do I have your permission to put that last line on a T-shirt? It's the best laugh I've had in a while."

LOL go ahead!

Amy wrote: "Marfita wrote: "Howdy, y'all! Atheist in the south. Husband and I love Bart Ehrman stuff (can't get enough of that bible!). I enjoy reading popular science stuff. Hi, Amy! Thanks for the group hint..."
SL Humanism meetings still going on! Body physics all screwed up now. Breasts used to bounce nicely, but - oh, that's prolly not what you wanted to know.

I didn't know there were humanism groups on SL, though it doesn't surprise me. I miss the book groups. Haven't been on in over almost 2 years, since I started my masters.Marfita wrote: "Amy wrote: "Marfita wrote: "Howdy, y'all! Atheist in the south. Husband and I love Bart Ehrman stuff (can't get enough of that bible!). I enjoy reading popular science stuff. Hi, Amy! Thanks for th..."

You chose your parents wisely!

Christos wrote: "Hi everyone....
I guess I am an atheist t I do not believe in god, astrology, ghosts, vampires, werewolfs, visiting aliens, life after death and career politicians.
..."

My name is Wendy and just may be considered on the list of what Christos does not believe in (guess which!). I am an agnostic as to Christos...(since I have no evidence on which to base belief in him and no personal experience of him by which to judge ) . I am an atheist in terms of deities...and have been a longtime member of the Atheists and Skeptics group. I am in Oregon, one of the most "unchurched" states in the country.
Is it not great to find so many fellow skeptics and atheists to discuss things with ?!! I am happy to meet all of you.
I have read Dawkins,Hitchens, Harris, Bertrand Russell, and many others but happily, there are more fun and thought-provoking books to share and read. Have bought Nicholas Wade's The Faith Instinct, and am currently reading The God Virus by Ray which is a fun read.
I think the first "atheist- supportive" tract I read was Thomas Paine's "The Age of Reason" in which he critiqued and discredited the Bible...and, at about the same time, Bertrand Russel's Why I am NOT a Christian. I was in high school at the time ...and thus I began to think (!)about theism/religions/myths and question... and thus began to think of my self as certainly not a Protestant Christian anymore (sort of a default label. I then went on to read The Golden Bough by Sir James Frazier..which influenced me greatly..about mythology and tracing the roots of myths/religions ..Fascinating. and this led to a lifelong interest. I enjoy Joseph Campbell's series of books on mythology (including the western mythologies ...woven into Christianity and Islam among others)...Ehrman and Dawkins are among my current faves.

Well hey, y'all. I have never introduced myself either. I am embarrassed to say I did make some attempts and religiousness and have only a few months ago identified as an atheist. Not that any of the god stuff I heard ever made sense, I was just scared to look too closely at it for some reason. Anyway, being someone who loves to read and learn, and somewhat nerdy, I am hungry to read all I can, whenever I have time. I live in a very Christian area, so it is nice to meet others, even virtually.

Hi,
My names' Ariadna. I was raised a christian fundamentalist until my teens when I began to question god's existence as I saw the incongruity between the "word of god", basic human rights, and ordinary existence; Then stopped believing, once I couldn't make sense of any of it and when "you just have to take it in faith" wouldn't cut it.
Nonetheless, I am still fascinated with biblical mythology especially the Apocalyptic sort; and of course, the paranormal and other worldly occurrences.
I haven't kept up with reading in quite a while. Any suggestions on any mild sci-fi or paranormal fiction books? Preferably apocalyptic and definitely one that provides insights into humanity etc, etc.

Hi, All.

I'm Cora. I've been a Goodreads member for quite a while and am happy to see this group forming. I was born and raised a Mormon but broke free in my 20s.

I'm currently reading The Believing Brain by Shermer. He makes the counter intuitive argument that belief comes first and justification is built afterward -- which is how it all happened for me. ( http://www.salamandersociety.com/blac... ) The moment came when when I could no longer believe the wild claims of Mormonism and have spent the years since then learning all I had been "protected" from.

As an avid reader, I'm also reading Atheist Manifesto by Michel Onfray. This is becoming a most beloved book. His thinking and writing are brilliant and I find myself circling back to re-read previous portions. At the end of a chapter, he sums up Christianity as "...life crucified, nothingness exalted." Is that not SO true?! If you've already gotten through the wonders of Dawkins, Dennett, Hitchens and Harris and are searching for more like that, Atheist Manifesto will give you joy!

I consider us all to be super fortunate to be living in a time when we don't have to fear being burned at the stake because we chose to learn and think for ourselves.

Welcome Cora! How is it possible that I've never heard of the "Atheist Manifesto?" It's now on my ever growing list.
I'm afraid there are many out there who would still be happy to see atheists burned at the stake. Guess they'll just have to be content to wait til October when they can watch us all burn in Hell.

HI
The name is Jordan, I am new to goodreads, but glad I found a group and people I can relate to without all the theists breathing down my back! Looking forward to interesting conversation!

Jordan wrote: "HI
The name is Jordan, I am new to goodreads, but glad I found a group and people I can relate to without all the theists breathing down my back! Looking forward to interesting conversation!"

Welcome to Goodreads and the group! I hope you'll find both to your liking :)

Welcome Jordan. I'm a Palahniuk fan too.

Hi fellow soulless primates,

My name is Jorge, I've been looking for a book club to join and I'm happy to have found Goodreads.com. I'm a full-time engineer, part-time realtor, married with two great kids. I have a busy life but any free time I do have I like spending it reading. I have an irreverent sense of humor, my politics is very progressive and I cherish every second of this one and only life I will ever have.

Looking forward to meeting interesting people and exchanging book ideas. Nice to meet you all,
Jorge