Phantom of the Opera discussion

Erik..The tortured soul who only wanted to be loved for himself. How do you feel about this man? One part passionate,the other evil. But is he? Is there more to him..besides his love for music & Christine? Would you have changed the story if it was up to you? And what would you change? Have you read any sequels were there is a HEA for him? Would you rather he find happiness with another or Christine?

Well my first intro to Erik was at the theater..I felt such sorrow for this man who just wanted to be loved,but went about it the wrong way. But after reading Susan Kay,s book I really got a full picture of this man & why he became who he was ( highly recommend to read)if you want to understand him & his past. And I do love a sequel where he finds happiness but dosent lose his "character" in the telling.

I've always loved Erik. I found him fascinating and interesting. So much depth to his character! My favorite in the whole story.

Way-chan (Aspiring Author) wrote: "I've always loved Erik. I found him fascinating and interesting. So much depth to his character! My favorite in the whole story."

Have you read Susan Kay's book the Phantom? It is such a heart-wrenching,powerful emotional book Way-chan..you will truly find that "depth" in this book..and really understand the man.

No, I haven't read it. I want to though! And I intend to.

Way-chan (Aspiring Author) wrote: "No, I haven't read it. I want to though! And I intend to."

Every library pretty much has it..just make sure you have a box of kleenix handy..

I was drawn to Erik the moment I read the original novel. On one hand, he could have given the devil a run for his money when it came to evil; on the other, he could have been an angel if someone would only put him on the right path. I never saw him as a monster, more of a fallen angel. While his love for Christine led him to disaster, I couldn't help but wish it could have worked out for the two of them. They both needed saving, and I think they might have been able to save each other if given the chance.

Gemma Irene wrote: "I was drawn to Erik the moment I read the original novel. On one hand, he could have given the devil a run for his money when it came to evil; on the other, he could have been an angel if someone w..."

I have to totally agree with you on all points there Gemma!

I always just call him Phantom. "Erik" sounds like too normal a name for the person he is, so I can't bring myself to use it. XD I apologize for that in advance.

The first time I saw Phantom was on Broadway. Even though I was so young, I remember feeling so bad for him and feeling so heartbroken. Then, of course Gerard came along and literally ripped my heart into little pieces over the tragedy that is the Phantom. While I can see while other people think he went about the "wrong way" of trying to win Christine's love, I don't ever blame him for anything he'd done; growing up in an environment where nobody ever bothered to teach you right from wrong? How does a person expect him to know how to win over a girl he loves?

I can't even bring myself to think of him being evil in any way. All the things he did, he did because he didn't know how else to do it. It's like a little kid; you can't truly blame them for their wrongs, because they don't honestly know. That's the vibe I always got from his character. In truth, all he ever really wanted to feel honestly loved by someone else, and Christine was the first person to ever show him that in any light. Of course he held onto her, of course he was protective. And the tragedy that befalls him when she chooses Raoul? It's too much for words. Most people would just try to pick themselves up again and find someone to make them feel whole again. But he just gives up. He knows that he'll never feel the same way about anyone except Christine. He literally disappears and is never heard from again. It breaks me heart. And then, of course, there's the last scene in the movie, when he leaves the rose and ring on her grave; the fact that he still loves her after all that time? I wish everybody could see that part of him. Not evil. Not insane. Just...lost and misunderstood.

^^ Exactly!

I got myself all worked up.
I'm shaking!

Thalia wrote: "I got myself all worked up.
I'm shaking!"

That happens to me all the time. He just does that to you, doesn't he?

Ugh, yes! It drives me mad, because nobody I know here in the real world understands. They're all team Raoul, and even when I try to explain the way I see Phantom, I just look ridiculous because I'll start to cry and people will just be like, 'Whoa. It's only fiction.'

Gemma, you were right. You and I do get along wonderfully. XD

Thalia wrote: "Ugh, yes! It drives me mad, because nobody I know here in the real world understands. They're all team Raoul, and even when I try to explain the way I see Phantom, I just look ridiculous because I'..."

You'll have to forgive us R/Cers for our passion. We're a minority group of outcasts in the Phandom. We've heard the same tired "E/C Forever!" arguments from all sides for the past 25 years... ;)

Admittedly, I used to be a die-hard E/Cer.. and then I grew up a little and got a shot of reality. Love Erik to bits and pieces, but just as character.

You R/Cers are in no way a minority, Lindsay! I've come across some Raoul lovers who actually gave me a little more respect for the dear vicomte. And I've learned not to get on their bad side either, because you guys fight to the death! :)

I never, ever come across other Phantom-lovers. Especially since the movie, everybody only takes away that Raoul was the good guy adn Phantom was evil. :[ I'm surrounded by R/C, so you'll have to forgive me when I go into my pro-Phantom tangents, since I feel so utterly surrounded!

I, too, fight to the death for my pairing, hahah. I think it's a little like Harry/Hermione vs. Ron/Hermione. Neither side really budges and it doesn't seem like a preference that will ever change.

I am definitely an Erik/other woman person. I do not think Christine loved him enough. I wrote my book with a new woman for Erik who could see into his heart.
"Mankind looks at the outward appearance, the Lord looks at the heart." 1Sam16:7. This is so true today,people have to be perfect, women skinny and sexy gorgeous and men tall and handsome in order to get a look these days. We all love Erik, but we love him today???

So true, Anne! It's just terrible how we consider ourselves so smart in this modern age of ours, but we still can't look past what we see on the surface.

As far as pairings go, I'm not biased just so long as Erik finally finds some happiness, be it with a Christine who finally matures or another woman who loves him for who he is. I know he's a fictional character, but I can't stand to see him miserable!

Is he fictional???Leroux' book makes you wonder. and other things I have read, like the finding of a deformed skeleton under the Garnier, also makes one wonder???

Anne wrote: "Is he fictional???Leroux' book makes you wonder. and other things I have read, like the finding of a deformed skeleton under the Garnier, also makes one wonder???"

Your so right Anne, Leroux did leave us the reader to pause and wonder..

Gemma Irene wrote: "So true, Anne! It's just terrible how we consider ourselves so smart in this modern age of ours, but we still can't look past what we see on the surface.

As far as pairings go, I'm not biased just..."

Im the same Gemma, as long as he finds happiness,I did though like how he and Christine "re-found' themselves in

I can't really see Phantom with anybody else. I haven't read your book, Anne, but it just wouldn't make as much sense to me, I don't think. He just loved Christine so much, that I honestly think he could never love anybody in nearly the same way, or even half the amount. In the movie, he literally just disappears and is never heard from again. He doesn't seem to have a reason for himself without her, and that's part of what makes it all so heartbreaking. "You alone could make my song take flight." I know most people think their first loves are their everything; but for Phantom, it was actually true. For me, it would just feel wrong for him to be with anybidy else.

You're also right about fiction; I don't care if something is fictional. Even if the Phantom story in itself is made up, those feelings are real and they exist, and dangit, I'll defend them until my life is over!

Having been terribly in love several times during my long life, I did find it possible when I lost love always to look for it again.
I feel the Phantom needed love more than Christine, and that someone else was more able to give him what he needs. In my book, the lady is 25, not 16, which made her much more mature and to see into his heart.
I do not find that reading a book where he and Christine get back together, but would not give up on a good book just because I would prefer he love someone else. Actuall I wish he loved me-LOL!!!

I do love the "sequels" with Erik with someone else..its a little more believable,and when that "someone" not changes him totally but brings out the passionate good side of him,but still leaves some of the "old Erik" whom we have fallen for. The ones I do have "meh" feelings about is when Christine & Raoul become best friends with Erik & "new-Erik's love..kinda hard to buy into that..what do you think?

...People do that?

I see where you guys are coming from; honestly, I do. But I can't buy into it myself, because then, it just doesn't feel like Phantom of the Opera. One part that makes me fall in love with the story at all is how completely devoted he is to her. And what really gets me about the movie is the final scene, where he leaves the ring and one last rose on her gravestone; that he loved her until the day she died, and probably loved her even after that. That he didn't try to move on, because he loved her, and only her. This is just a huge part, for me, of what makes me love the story and his character, so desperately. So...for me, anything where he just...moves on without Christine seems unbelievable and unrealistic to me. Perhaps it's because I am in love with the musical's story far more than the book itself. But being so terribly devoted to the musical story, I can't see myself wanting him to be with anyone but Christine.

I hope that makes sense? D:

Thalia wrote: "...People do that?

I see where you guys are coming from; honestly, I do. But I can't buy into it myself, because then, it just doesn't feel like Phantom of the Opera. One part that makes me fall i..."

Oh it does indeed Thalia, but you should try a few just to see.. like its very Christine & Erik..the "continued" story so to speak..I think the best book that you may like that is the "beginning" of Eriks life,up to he meets Christine is more along the "true-to-story" that may appeal to you have you read this one? oh my,make sure you have a box of klennix handy. Some of us fans just like the different sequels..cause we cant let Erik go...:D

The Letters book does sound very interesting, and I think I'll add it to my pile "to read". Susan Kay's version I have also never read (I've only read the original!), and to be honest, this one girl at my school turned me off even wanting to. @_@ She's always trying to show me up, trying to prove to herself that she's a bigger Phantom fan than I am, but she never read the original, and just throws Kay's book in my face. I have been looking around for it lately though, since I also don't want to let the story go, and I'm curious to see how it compares to the original.

Like I said, I can't let it go, either, but I think it would just rip my heart out for what I love THE most about the story; that is, Phantom's undying love for Christine, to be changed so drastically. x) I don't much like reading "sequels" to Phantom though, since most just seem like fanfiction that got published.

The "phantom" by Susan Kay is pretty darn close..what is so good about it Thalia,is you get to really find out why Erik is/became who he is. I read it for that reason,to know what happened "before" but it will really pull your heart strings. And any sequels that I have read so far,Erik keeps Christine in his heart no matter the "new-love".

Still, I am wary. Of sequels, that is. I suppose my "ideal" is that he would never forget her, and what I love about him is his devotion. It seems to me, at least, that the devotion would be ruined. My aspect of it is that's the tragedy; that he loved her, and only her, and he couldn't love anybody else; because she was all there was, his entire world. I don't feel as if I can let that part of his character, or at least my interpreation of it, go for a sequel that introduces a new woman who could touch him in at all the same way that Christine did. It seems just unreal, and while I understand why other people would be happy about it, happy that he finally has someone to love, it feels wrong to me, since I am so devoted to the relationship that exists with him and Christine.

Thalia wrote: "Still, I am wary. Of sequels, that is. I suppose my "ideal" is that he would never forget her, and what I love about him is his devotion. It seems to me, at least, that the devotion would be ruined..."

Nothing wrong in that at all Thalia..:D

;D

Honestly, I'd like to know where you people are living because in my... 10+ years in the phandom, R/Cers represent a good 5% maybe 10% of people I meet online XD

Plus, it's really only been the last couple years that I've ever been able to find actual R/C phanphic. And the Raoul bashing is starting to wane, at least, which is rather comforting.

So, honestly, there's no need to debate the merits of E/C until you're crippled with emotion, Thalia. The entirety of the Phandom understands you extremely well, I assure you XD <3333

Myself, I stay away from the sequels. I'm so tired of reading the same thing over and over and over. XD

There's plenty of R/Cers on phantomoftheopera.com, Lindsay! They make up at least half the number of users, and they're proud of it! And like I've said, they reformed me of my Raoul bashing ways and taught me a little respect for him. :)

I understand exactly what you mean, Thalia. It takes a really good "other woman" to catch my attention, but it also takes a really good interpretation of Christine. In the book and the musical, I just think she wasn't mature enough for Erik.

It's rather odd how protective we are of our dear Phantom, isn't it? :)

Lindsay, online I tend to find more E/C fans, because they're people who bothered to actually look into Phantom's character and understand why he does the things he does and his real intentions. Most of the people I interact with at school or at home, though, don't care to look so far into it, so they're just like, "Woo hoo! Go Raoul! Phantom sucks!" It drives me up a wall, since they have no reasons to support it so, except that that's the way it ended up. So online I'm totally gung-ho, since nobody else listens to me. x)

I am so protective. Like...there aren't even words to describe me when it comes to my fandoms. x) But I'm proud of it!

Lindsay wrote: "Honestly, I'd like to know where you people are living because in my... 10+ years in the phandom, R/Cers represent a good 5% maybe 10% of people I meet online XD

Plus, it's really only been the l..."

I am pro R/C as well and the bashing of his character is inappropriate to Leroux's vision. Raoul was a young man coming into his title at a time when they were beginning to hold less power. At this critical time he managed to balance the respect of his family name while respecting his heart. I researched a great deal of who he would be as a nobleman and used that as my character arc in my novel and resulting series.

Oh my goodness.

So today in English, we started reading "The Minister's Black Veil" parable. And my teacher preludes with "What are some examples of characters that use masks and what do they symbolize?"

Oh my goodness, my hand like, shot into the air, and my teacher kept calling on different people, and my one friend (across the room), when he was like, "Hmm, well, we only have time for one more..." she like, stood up and said, "PICK THALIA, OH PLEASE."

She totally knew I was going to bring up Phantom.
My voice started shaking just talking about the mask.

I'm such a wreck, but I love it. <3

I love your passion, Thalia!!! That's awesome!

Thalia wrote: "Oh my goodness.

So today in English, we started reading "The Minister's Black Veil" parable. And my teacher preludes with "What are some examples of characters that use masks and what do they symb..."

I agree with Dhestiny its refreshing to hear of someone who not only has the passion for this tragic love story but its characters..and stays true to her favorites!:D

I'm glad I'm not considered crazy. :D

I'm definitely not your average sixteen-year-old, hahha.

Thalia wrote: "I'm glad I'm not considered crazy. :D

I'm definitely not your average sixteen-year-old, hahha."

Far from it Thalia, and I always enjoy chatting with you :D

That's so great you got to share all that passion, Thalia! When I get into a Phantom tirade, my only audience is an exasperated and slightly-annoyed little brother. It's good to have everyone else around here to talk to! :)

Hahaha, seriously. Sandi, I'm glad! I enjoy talking to you, too. :D

Gemma, I know the feeling. My mom is so tired of hearing from me, hahah. She'll watch the movie with me, but only once like, every six months. x) And my brothers just make fun of me, heheh.

Lol! Every six month! XD I don't really like the movie... I just listen to the CD everyday... ;) It's just so sad for both POTO and LND! :'(

Thalia, what a great story. I am 70 years old, and my blood still races at anything Phantom, so no dear, you are not alone. There is just something about Phantom, especially the movie to me, that brings out the romance in us.

Anne wrote: "Thalia, what a great story. I am 70 years old, and my blood still races at anything Phantom, so no dear, you are not alone. There is just something about Phantom, especially the movie to me, that b..."

So true Anne! :)

*imagine the picture of Erik during the reprise of all I ask of you then it will make sense*

His heart broken when he hears the musical number that has already happened but repeated so he can appear hopelessly and completely heart-broken.

Oh, yes, I can't stand to hear All I Ask Of You with all its love and light, then turn around and listen to the reprise with the sorrow and darkness. It breaks the heart, it really does. *sniff*

I mean I want to feel all fuzzy inside but Erik's heartbreak over Christine is much more sorrowful and miserable and down right heart-wrenching so I can't really picture All I Ask Of you and Christine and Raoul's words of love and passion when I know that next comes the reprise that I somewhat dread.

Seriously, right? He can take any song that was once happy and twist it all around for me. All I Ask of You is one of them. The way he sings Masquerade at the end is the other. It just...it kills me, it hurts so bad.

And what else does he twist around so that you feel complete pity for him??? I mean some of them are his personal songs: Music of the Night can't be twisted.