The Sword and Laser discussion

Kvothe is a character that we all want to read about. He's smart but not pedantic. He's capable but not invulnerable. He is witty and clueless. I mean the last with great affection. Most men, especially men Kvothe's age, suffer from this. His intelligence only makes it worse.

I like Mr. Rothfuss's characterization of Kvothe's clueness because it humanizes the character and makes him very easy to identify with. His inability to see himself as a dashing and desirable man feels very right.

His misunderstanding of his relationship with Deena, and to a lesser extent almost every other woman he meets, is some of the most "real" writing I've read anywhere. His ability to say the wrong thing to Deena, his overthinking of everything just reads so right it was almost painful.

Did you all find this as well? Even after the events of The Wise Man's Fear, Kvothe may know the moves, but still seems not to understand women. Granted, most of the women he meets are at least a little atypical, but he isn't the type to meet typical.

Do you think it helps or hinders the fact that we're getting his story from his actual perspective? I wonder if he might be cocky, but we don't see it.....

I would think it unlikely, given his state of mind at the Inn. There isn't much cockiness left in Kote, he actually seems to want to give his truth on his story. I say his truth, because he can only ever give us his side of the story.

That and I completely identified with some of the instances of Kvothe's cluelessness. It felt real, because I have been there, missed that.

One of the problems I am having with this book is having to continually remind myself that Kvothe is so young. I am approaching the end of WMF and still he is only 16-17? I get the whole 'child prodigy' thing, and Rothfuss a fair job of reminding the reader of this, but doesn't being clueless come with the territory here. The random quote of the day on home page today happened to be; "In youth we learn; in age we understand". Definitely applies here.

I am not really getting all the Rothfuss hype. I have tried and failed to get into any of his novels despite the fact that people who know me swear that I would love his stories. He was highly recommended to me by David Farland at his writers death camp so I rushed out and picked up the King Killer chronicles. Much to my dismay I found it to be so poorly written that I kept getting yanked out of the story to groan about his writing style. Am I missing something? What is it that makes his stuff a must read?

You may not be a good fit for his style. I think he's a very good writer, but he does have a distinctive style and it may not be for everyone. Because the story is set as story-within-a-story, it can be jarring as the frames of reference move.

Also, and part of my original point in this thread, this is a story about a young teen-aged boy who is very bright, but has huge blind-spots. Kvothe makes bad decisions, forgets about possible allies or plot points, and misses people waving flags in his face. Yes, that makes some parts of the book painful, but purposefully so. But if it doesn't work for you there is nothing wrong with that - we read for pleasure after all. If it ceases to be enjoyable there is no reason to read it.

I've only read the first book but I don't think Kvothe is all the smart. Yeah, he can do all sorts of magic that way older kids can't handle. But look at his everyday life actions. He is, quite frankly, a moron - a LOT of the time.

Rothfuss is way overhyped. Yes, he can write and this made for a thrilling read, but there's so many flaws with the story, with the characters, I don't understand the pedestal everyone seems to put him on.

I'll give book 2 a go and see if he matured a little as a writer and maybe actually has something to say in this one. Book 1 had literally no conflict - thus the very strange ending climax that had nothing to do with anything.

Well, he gets a second chance.

Literally no conflict? Really? So the student who's his nemesis, the dragon creature, the professor who tried to get him expelled... No conflict at all? Literally?

*Sigh*

Besides, he's not a moron. He's just socially inept. There's a big difference. You can be highly intelligent and socially awkward. It's actually quite easy. It's called Aspergers Syndrome. Or an autistic savant. Those are two conditions that cause people to have extremely high IQ's but extremely poor social skills.

However, those don't apply in Kvothe's case. His issue is he can't let others get away with things. It cannot be allowed to slide. The reason I like how his character is done is because he does all the things you'd expect someone with that mindset to do. It's interesting.

Though, if you don't like the first book you won't like the second. It's more of the same.

Overhyped? Are you kidding me? Rothfuss is easily one of the best writers in any genre at the moment. His prose is exceptional and his storytelling ability is second to none. There are no plot holes either. This is NOT a traditional work of epic fantasy. It is a story about stories and how the line between fact and fiction is so easily blurred. There is no traditional plot arc, no single bad guy to fight, no world shaking conquest. It is the story of a man's life.

This style of storytelling might not work for some, particularly those interested in quest driven fantasy, but to say Rothfuss is overhyped strikes me as rather absurd. I am not a particularly big fan of George R.R. Martin, but I would never say the guy is overhyped. The fact that his books resonate with so many people speaks to his talent. Furthermore, there IS conflict all over the place in the Kingkiller Chronicles. It is simply not the world changing conflict present in far too many works of Fantasy. Not every book has to be about a farm boy saving the world.

How do you know? You know the conclusion then?

Just a reminder that difference of opinion is fine, but please disagree with civility. No name calling or acting as if someone who does not share your opinion is less intelligent. Thanks! (Not a moderator, just a peaceful person.)

Jenny wrote: "Just a reminder that difference of opinion is fine, but please disagree with civility. No name calling or acting as if someone who does not share your opinion is less intelligent. Thanks! (Not a ..."

Huh? There was nothing uncivil about that exchange. In terms of interwebz forums that was about as G Rated as it gets. Tell ya what though I changed "seems rather foolish" to "strikes me as rather absurd". I hope that makes things more palpable.

@David - Your question makes no sense as it relates to my position. Could you please expound a bit? My analysis is obviously based upon The Name of the Wind and The Wise Man's Fear, as well as numerous interviews and articles from Rothfuss.

Rothfuss is divisive because he chooses not to follow the Hero's Journey, and Kvothe seems quite intent to dispel the myths that have risen around him. I suspect, however, that we will find a much different story as the books unfold. Given the introduction and obvious goals of some characters it seems to me that Kvothe is avoiding some Herculean task.

Yes the books are long. IMO they could each be cut in half if they were more tightly edited. Sprawling works like these and SoIaF give "paid by the word" a nasty reputation.

The Sprawling nature of the work is part of the appeal. It is not comic book absurd like Steven Erikson's Malazan work nor is it bloated with irrelevance like ASOIAF. The world unfolds in a leisurely, almost lethargic way. It never dominates the story, nor does it become the story as is sometimes the case in Secondary World Fantasy. The world is slowly unveiled as the story is told, and each unveiling functions only to better tell the story. It leaves the reader curiously engaged and wanting more while keeping the focus always on the story, and the stories within the story.

At it's core KKC IS a story about stories. Rothfuss revisits the tradition of storytelling in a fantastically compelling way. I highly doubt the story will end with Kvothe undertaking some world shaking task. It isn't necessary. Rothfuss doesn't owe the reader closure, nor has he written himself into any corners. While I am sure he will answer some questions, I suspect he will leave just as many, if not more, unanswered.

Ray wrote: "The Sprawling nature of the work is part of the appeal. It is not comic book absurd like Steven Erikson's Malazan work nor is it bloated with irrelevance like ASOIAF. The world unfolds in a leisu..."


You may doubt that the story will end with Kvothe undertaking some world shaking task but I will be sorely disappointed if he doesn't! Surely he is going to mete justice on the murderers of his parents which will obviously rid the world of some pretty mean characters!

BTW @Jenny Where is the lack of civility in this thread?

David wrote: "Ray wrote: "The Sprawling nature of the work is part of the appeal. It is not comic book absurd like Steven Erikson's Malazan work nor is it bloated with irrelevance like ASOIAF. The world unfold..."

Hmm, I don't know. I get the distinct feeling that this whole saga is going to end in tears. Both for Kvothe and for people expecting a classic kick-ass epic fantasy ending. Of course my guess is as good as yours, so we'll see what happens. :)

Karly wrote: "I actually find Kvothe kind of full of himself -- or, I guess, Kote thinks very highly of his younger self. How many times in a chapter does he remind us what a great actor he is? Or a great musici..."

Ha, but who is to say he as not dealt with the Chandrian...YET, post-innkeeper? I suspect he is a humble innkeeper to withdraw and lick his emotional wounds following something that happened with Deena.... Cripes! I have just realized that this story is a soap opera! ;-)

The biggest question I have is simply what broke Kvothe? I suspect we will see Kvothe reach his full power, his full potential, in The Doors of Stone. Something incredibly life changing obviously happens to him that leaves him just a shell of his former self. I agree with David in that I think something serious is going to happen to Denna. Honestly I don't care in which direction Rothfuss takes the tale. The magic of the story is in the telling.

Consider this, if you will, Kote tells you from the beginning, this is an Irish tale, it's not going to end well, no "and they lived happily ever after". And yet, despite the spoiler, the promise of future tragedy, you can't wait to turn the page. Since I usually do not like tragic endings, I came to realize that Rothfuss is heck of a talent, since I burn through the books in days. I can't wait for the third book.

Anyone know when book 3 is due out?

It comes down to the strengths of POV, the inexperience of the character missing cues, and Rothfuss' mastery of form and storytelling ability. Kvothe is such an epic, fun character to read about, and being in his head is so intoxicating because it's, well, HIS head. With all the flaws that comes with (which he can't see). You wouldn't want your characters omniscient, would you? He has some major flaws, and he doesn't really realise until after the fact. But man, are we charmed by him!

I'm only on "The Name of the Wind". But Kvothe reminds me of Corwin in Zelazny's Amber series: Competent, confident, arrogant, definitely full of himself. But also tragic in that he causes a good deal of the bad stuff that happens to him. As I read about his early time at the University, I keep thinking: This guy is SO clueless. But it is a fun read, like watching a train wreck. I can't wait to see what kind of mess he gets into next.

I am still in "Name of the Wind" as well, but get really annoyed with Kvothe. I mentioned this somewhere else, but it feels like Harry Potter with Sheldon Cooper as Protagonist.
It doesn't work for me. Kvothe/Kote is so incredibly full of himself that it pains me. How often do I have to hear about another skill he almost accidentally masters or a Problem he solves because he learned it already as a child...
And he is socially awkward? Well, to the extent that all the girl's fall for him because he accidentally says all the right Things, yeah...
And his enemies are a cartoon cutout high-school bully and the Professor that hates him because... he hates everybody.
I have a really hard time reaching the end of the audio book because nothing of any impact happens.
Hearing that by book 2 we are still in Flashback mode, I guess that's it for me.
Thank you all for the insight on this Story, it simply isn't my Kind of Entertainment.