More than Just a Rating discussion

If this fits another thread better, would Madame moderator please merge or move? I'm just taking a bit of a break from tossing and turning in bed and if I don't mark this thought I'll forget it in the morning :)

There, their and they're and three I see used in the wrong context a lot. Perhaps we can work up a *cheat sheet* to help reviewers figure out which is the right word to use. Are there others like this that drive you batty?

I've seen that a lot also, Misfit, but it baffles me as I've never had a problem discerning between the three.

There - a place, or a declaration entreating the attention of others to look, as in; "Over there!" or "Here and there."

Their - indicating ownership by multiple people, as in ; "Their house" or "Their day was ruined."

They're - whenever you've got an apostrophe and it's not a proper name, it means the word has been contracted from two other words, in this case "they are", as in; "They are going to the park" or "They are tired."



Doing that last one has brought to mind two very frequent grammar errors that I spot in reviews.

Many people confuse "it's" with "its". If you use the rule above that I mentioned for use of apostrophes, you can't go wrong. "It" is not a proper name, it's a pronoun. So if it has an apostophe like this "it's" that is a contraction of "it is". "Its" indicates posession and ownership, like "their", "your", "his" and "her".

In a very similar vein, I see an awful lot of "could of", "should of" and "would of". This is just plain wrong. It arises because in speech when people say "could've" "should've" and "would've" it can sound to the unwitting like "could of" and so on. In fact "could've" and the rest are simply more contractions of two words using apostrophes - and in two separate words they are originally "could have", "should have", and "would have". If you think about it, a sentence won't make sense if you use "could of", "should of" or "would of".

Great topic, and good place, thanks for starting it!

It seems that the should, could, would of's have become a part of the vernacular. I wouldn't be surprised if I am guilty of doing that, hopefully not too often.

I would love a 'cheat sheet' for those times I get confused, especially being newer to this I wouldn't mind that added help. I get the usage of was and were confused. I'm sure there are others but they have escaped me.

Can their be a cheat sheet that can be kept in one place, to avoid having to hunt it down, that grammar rules can be added to as needed? Start with the ones Beth mentioned and as people ask and answers are received they are added to the 'cheat sheet'.

Sure, I'll start a new topic and lock it, so only Sarah and I can add to it. Questions & discussions here, results/answers there.

Great! I think this will become a very useful tool. I didn't expect such an easy and quick response. That doesn't put too much extra work on you two, I hope.

Thanks!

See that Sarah has already found an external link and put it in the 'point to external links here' topic, in the 'resources' folder. So, you've got at least two places to check now. :)

Yes, I did and am checking it out now.

Wow, talk about quick, got the cheat sheet up already!

Excellent idea, thank you. I was about to say somewhere out in webland someone did a poster cheat sheet but I had no idea what keywords to start with to find it.

One of the main things to remember when typing is not to only rely on word-processing spell-checks to edit one's reviews (or anything one writes), particularly with English, since English has so many homonyms. Spell-checks are a great editing tool, but one still needs to meticulously read one's review, essay and so on (because spell-checks are not going to point out that one has used "there" instead of "their" or "would of" instead of "would have").

Gundula wrote: "One of the main things to remember when typing is not to only rely on word-processing spell-checks to edit one's reviews (or anything one writes), particularly with English, since English has so ma..."
Definitely, or at least check each thing the spellchecker is 'fixing'. Sanderson = sand are son? No. No it is not, Mr. Microsoft.

Sarah wrote: "Gundula wrote: "One of the main things to remember when typing is not to only rely on word-processing spell-checks to edit one's reviews (or anything one writes), particularly with English, since E..."

I know, Microsoft does way too many "automatic fixes" and many of them simply do not make sense.

Your and you're. I don't quite understand why people can't differentiate between the two.

Me and her as subjects; should be She and I; but pronoun confusion in general bothers me.

Lady Jaye wrote: "Your and you're. I don't quite understand why people can't differentiate between the two."

I think in some cases, it's simply typing too fast, or relying entirely on phonetics.

This may not be grammar as such, but my pet peeve in reviews (and comments) is when they are written in text message language. I feel that I am showing my age, because I write text messages in full sentences, with punctuation!

If someone has a good mnemonic trick or quick way to talk about your and you're I'll add it to the cheat sheet. I agree it's probably an error due more to haste than ignorance, but maybe not always.

Kim wrote: "This may not be grammar as such, but my pet peeve in reviews (and comments) is when they are written in text message language. I feel that I am showing my age, because I write text messages in full..."

I agree. It slows my reading as I try to understand the text. Most of the time I don't use text-speak. Even when I text someone on the phone.
BTW, IMHO, OTOH, OMG! LOL! Emoticons on the other hand, are fun.

I can't figure out any emoticons except :) and ;). I try to avoid initializations, but they're *so* handy....

Your is of or relating to yourself, or possession of. "The table is to your left", "This will be your contribution", "Is this your book".

You're is a contraction of personal pronoun 'you' and 'are'. It is used like she's, it's, we're and so forth. "You're (you are) coming to the dinner tonight?" "If you're going, I will too." You can see how 'you are' could not work in the examples for 'your' above.

To combine the two. "You're on your way."

Hope that helps. Isis can probably clean it up and make it clearer.

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "I can't figure out any emoticons except :) and ;). I try to avoid initializations, but they're *so* handy.... "

I guess, as an author, I think about language as communication. If it is complicated to understand, no matter how quick or handy, the reason for writing is for naught.

Emoticons are now pre-made on most sites, Yahoo etc. And what more do we need besides :) and ;) well, maybe :( ?

Dawn wrote: "Your is of or relating to yourself, or possession of. "The table is to your left", "This will be your contribution", "Is this your book".

You're is a contraction of personal pronoun 'you' and 'are..."

Nope, I think you explained it perfectly. I would only add that my apostrophe rule applies again here. If it's not a proper name (and by proper name I mean for example "James" or "Sophie"), and it has got an apostrophe in it, as a general rule you are looking at a contraction of two words into one - i.e. "you are" becomes "you're". "Your", which has no apostrophe in it, again, indicates possession.

Oh, yes, I forgot about the sad face. :(

We could easily make a sentence, like for your and you're, to differentiate between the "theres":

They're going over there with their picnic basket.

[They are] going over [place] with [possessive/ownership] picnic basket.

I like that sentence and I'll add it to the post in the Cheat Sheet, tx.

Not sure if this fits this thread, or perhaps there should be a which word is it kind of thread? I searched and didn't find it.

One I just spotted and one I've seen a lot is waist instead of waste, as in I wasted my time on this book. Waist is that part of our body most of us don't want to measure any more.

Misfit wrote: "Not sure if this fits this thread, or perhaps there should be a which word is it kind of thread? I searched and didn't find it.

One I just spotted and one I've seen a lot is waist instead of was..."

Again, I firmly believe that is what happens when people only rely on computer spell-checks to edit their reviews; it does not catch these kinds of semantic mistakes (both waist and waste are spelled properly and sound the same, but have very different meanings).

I agree. I just spotted another one at Amazon UK. Holy instead of wholly. Argh.

This is a good thread for homophones and homonyms. I don't think we need to include them on the cheat sheet, usually, though, because they probably are due to hasty use of spell-checker and not to actual confusion.

Isis wrote: "Dawn wrote: "Your is of or relating to yourself, or possession of. "The table is to your left", "This will be your contribution", "Is this your book".

You're is a contraction of personal pronoun '..."

Thanks Isis, coming from you I take that as a compliment.

Misfit wrote: "I agree. I just spotted another one at Amazon UK. Holy instead of wholly. Argh."

What a wholly holy hole of a mess. Sorry, but I just could not resist that, ha, ha, ha.

:)

Improper use of the subjective pronoun "I" where the objective pronoun "me" should be used. For example, "would you like to have dinner with John and I" where it should be "would you like to have dinner with John and me." Or "John explained everything to Susan and I" where it should be "John explained everything to Susan and me."

This drives me ***BONKERS***.

But sadly, this most uncouth usage seems to have become part of the vernacular and so embedded in popular language that I have even seen this used in published books that were presumably edited by editors who should know better.

I found a good blog that explains proper usage here.

General rule of thumb from this blog quoted below:

"Are you confused? Here's an easy way to tell whether you should use 'Jane and I' or 'Jane and me'. Ask yourself: if this sentence were only about me, which would I use, 'I' or 'me'? Use the same pronoun when talking about yourself and another person. Seriously. That's the rule."

Another good explanation here.

Another good rule of thumb from the blog I cite above: if "us" could be substituted in that sentence, then use the objective pronoun "me" instead of the subjective pronoun "I."

Lululemon wrote: "Improper use of the subjective pronoun "I" where the objective pronoun "me" should be used. For example, "would you like to have dinner with John and I" where it should be "would you like to have ..."

People would not be confused if they learned to diagram sentences in English class as I did. Yes, I'm showing my age, but diagramming really does clarify this issue. If you are diagramming "I" as the subject of the sentence and "me" as the object of the sentence, you will learn correct usage.

Shomeret wrote: "People would not be confused if they learned to diagram sentences in English class as I did. Yes, I'm showing my age, but diagramming really does clarify this issue. "

I loved that part of English classes, although I sort of got lost toward the end with some phrases.

Yup That happens alot, anytime I am writing an essay, report or book I use Words spell check, but if you dont read the sentence you wont catch the correct word.

Same can be said for:

We're
were
Where

I gotta admit, I had to look up sentence diagrams.

Read Sister Bernadette's Barking Dog: The Quirky History and Lost Art of Diagramming Sentences if you have fun diagramming sentences or want to know more about the craft. When I read a library copy, my then 13 year-old son had me buy a copy just for his own re-reading pleasure.

BunWat wrote: "alot
is not
a word

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com..."

Thank you BW. That's a great link. I liked it ... a lot. It has given me a new perspective on some things that until now I have found incredibly irritating.

I admit that I had to look up sentence diagramming too, and I found a lot of really good grammar and writing websites through that exercise!

Here's another grammar pet peeve relating to subjective and objective pronouns- improper use of "who" and "whom."

General rule: if it relates to the subject of the sentence, use "who" and if it relates to the object of the sentence, use "whom." But that gets confusing and I think the little rule below is a pretty easy way to remember this. Credit to "Grammar Girl" from this website .

______________

"A Quick and Dirty Tip

Still too hard to remember? OK, here's the quick and dirty tip. Like whom, the pronoun him ends with m. When you're trying to decide whether to use who or whom, ask yourself if the answer to the question would be he or him. That's the trick: if you can answer the question being asked with him, then use whom, and it's easy to remember because they both end with m. For example, if you're trying to ask, "Who (or whom) do you love?" The answer would be "I love him." Him ends with an m, so you know to use whom. But if you are trying to ask, "Who (or whom) stepped on Squiggly?" the answer would be "He stepped on Squiggly." There's no m, so you know to use who. So that's the quick and dirty trick: if you can't remember that you use whom when you are referring to the object of the sentence, just remember that him equals whom."

____________________________

I'm always confusing it's and its because in word, it can't tell the difference.

Sadly word can't tell the difference between a lot of things, where and wear, their and there and so on. It also doesn't like a person to posses something. Something like 'Fran's book", Fran's always ends up with the red line under it. I don't know if this latter/later (oh, that's another one that often gets confused, any rules for this one?) is a setting thing in Word since it didn't happen till I upgraded a couple of years ago.

Dawn wrote: "Sadly word can't tell the difference between a lot of things, where and wear, their and there and so on. It also doesn't like a person to posses something. Something like 'Fran's book", Fran's alwa..."

And sometimes "Word" automatically changes things even if you don't want these changes, even if they make no sense.

Hm. Latter vs later. Of course they're pronounced differently. If you're still not sure, after saying them aloud.. hm. Latter can be more independent. "I chose the latter." Later needs to be attached to what it's referring to. "I chose the later one."

Oh that's a bad explanation. Help?

Cheryl in CC NV wrote: "Hm. Latter vs later. Of course they're pronounced differently. If you're still not sure, after saying them aloud.. hm. Latter can be more independent. "I chose the latter." Later needs to be ..."

I think "latter" is generally used with "former" (although one or the other could also be understood from and through the context). It is often used to compare and contrast, to show one (usually a noun, or an understood noun) being different from another (noun or understood noun):

Both Canada and the United States are very large countries, although the former is quite a bit larger than the latter, while the latter has a much higher population density than the former.

(I hope I got this right, lol)

"Later" I would consider a comparative time expression (the comparative form of "late"). It can be an adjective of time (We saw the later showing of the movie) or an adverb of time (We went to the movie much later than our other friends).

So, the even quicker exp. could be "Could you say former? Then say latter. If you're referring to time, say later."

Dawn, do any of these tips work for you? What should I put in the cheat sheet?

Latter can also be Last.

I'm actually annoyed by a grammatical quirk.

"an house"

According to brits, who don't pronounce the 'h', that is correct. I'm an american, I say 'a house'. It always sticks in my mind whenever I read it because it's so awkward in my mind's mouth.

I know! It doesn't make sense! It makes my tongue feel strange.