DFW - The Broom of the System (group read) discussion

Let's use this as a space for discussing when we want to start the group read, how many pages/chapters we hope to cover each week, and that sort of administrative stuff. Okay?

I haven't bought a copy yet, but this preview at Google Books shows it to be twenty-one chapters, divided neatly into Part 1 (Chapters 1-11) and Part 2 (Chapters 12-21). Wikipedia tells me its 467 pages. If they're of equal length (known DFW's work, not very likely) that's just over 22 pages/chapter. Two chapters a week gets us through in 10.5 weeks.

What say you?

It's quite a bit shorter than IJ. Under five-hundred pages sounds about right.

My Penguin Ink version is 467 pages of terrifyingly tiny font. I hope the group helps be gain better understanding of the book. DFW makes Wittgenstein interesting but not much more understandable.

The first sentence of this book can be held up to almost any other first sentence I've read.

Works for me though we could go a little faster.

I had hoped to read this via Kindle app, but I am sad to find that, unlike DFW's other titles, is not yet available for Kindle.

If you'd like to help me lean on the publisher, please follow this link to the Amazon page for Broom and click the "I'd like to read this book on Kindle" link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0143...

James wrote: "I had hoped to read this via Kindle app, but I am sad to find that, unlike DFW's other titles, is not yet available for Kindle.

If you'd like to help me lean on the publisher, please follow thi..."

I hear Penguin really rips the authors (or their estates) and only gives $1 per electronic copy, so most authors refuse. I think that is true with Penguin and Mary Karr also...

This is why J.A. KonrathJ.A. Konrath is right about the future of publishing: self-publishing on the Kindle seems to be the way forward, or a combination of a printing deal but with the writer owning their digital rights. Otherwise, writers get virtually nothing out the sale of their e-books, but the customers still pay the equivalent price to a hard copy, which is absolutely insane.

I'd totally recommend Konrath's blog, by the way. It's very interesting and I think his views will prove to be right in the end.

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/

Carl, I wasn't aware the authors got such a small cut of electronic sales. I suspect that, as with music, the way forward will (eventually) be self-publishing and self-promotion, rather than giving such a large cut to the publishers.

Thanks for that link, Paola. I read a few posts and there seems to be a lot to learn there.

What do you guys think about starting this project on October 1? I figure, as we're all avid readers, that would give everyone some time to finish up whatever they're currently reading.

I went, today, to grab a copy, but the local B&N didn't have one. They had one copy each of Infinite Jest, Oblivion, and Girl with Curious Hair. I'll check the B&N near where I work tomorrow. Otherwise, I'll have to order it from Amazon.

Oct 1 sounds great. In the meantime, I am NOT reading any Wittgenstein, so I hope all of you are ready to educate me.

My friend has (and just tonight showed me) a Kindle version of Broom.

Damn. I'll be travelling for 2 weeks at the end of October when we're going to the US and the book is not available for the Kindle. Does that mean that I need to take a brick with me?

I wonder if I can find a pirate copy somewhere....even with spelling mistakes, I'm willing to put up with it for a couple of weeks....

Ok, it was easier than I thought. Kindle/ePub/RTF/PDF version found. Looks like a version that has been scanned in by OCR.

*DISCLAIMER* - I will of course buy a paper copy of the book!

PM me if you want info.

Ed, I figured they have one in the works, since you can (on Amazon's site) almost access a Kindle preview of it. If you go to the Amazon.com page for Broom, then follow the look inside link, there are tabs for "Kindle Book" and "Print Book." There's even a link on the left for the Kindle version of the book, but you get a 404 if you try to follow it.

I should say, also, that the issue of payment for electronic editions seems to me an issue between publishers and authors, rather than one between authors and Amazon.

That said, I bought the Penguin Ink copy today. If it does come out for Kindle while we're reading it, I'll likely buy that too and switch.

If there are no objections to October 1 as a start date, I'll update the group info to reflect that and put together a reading schedule.

Ed, if you have a link to the Kindle version, shoot it to me.

Currently attempting to source a copy - but may skip the copy on Amazon for £1965 !

1st October is good with me, will order my paper copy from Amazon at some point in the next couple of weeks.

James wrote: "That said, I bought the Penguin Ink copy today. If it does come out for Kindle while we're reading it, I'll likely buy that too and switch.


James, I'll be interested if you keep stats on how many times the artwork on the cover of that version makes you pick up the book upside-down and attempt to read in that manner.

James wrote: "Ed, if you have a link to the Kindle version, shoot it to me."

I don't have a link, but my friend does have it. I think perhaps they've pulled it.

I've ordered a Penguin Ink copy from one of the Amazon marketplace resellers, it's coming from the US though. Hope it won't take too long. Is the Penguin Ink a US-only edition then?

I've had enough of crap UK covers. I had to put up with that for Infinite Jest. I keep meaning to buy a copy of the US edition with the clouds...

Carl, I'll do that! It is an odd cover. Pretty, but odd. I've done it once already.

Ed, that makes sense. I thought I'd seen it for Kindle before. So I guess Amazon and Penguin Ink can't work out a price and they pulled it. I hope it returns sometime soon. I'll keep checking.

Paola don't worry about the hard copy's size or weight. It's actually *quite* small. You'll be pleasantly surprised when it arrives.

It's just that I didn't want to take a paper book with me on holiday. That's partly why I bought The Kindle, 320g when in its case!

Still trying to figure out how much ground we can reasonably cover in a week, which is complicated a bit by Wallace's penchant for wide variance in chapter lengths, as you can see here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/c...

After much futzing, I came up with this proposed reading schedule. Feedback welcome:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/c...

Totally fine by me!

James wrote: "After much futzing, I came up with this proposed reading schedule. Feedback welcome:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/c..."

Brilliant - I thought some of those chapter lengths would cause trouble. This will be good, and it will be a challenge.

Cool then. I added start and end dates for each week (and hid the blank rows, to clean it up a bit). I've started creating discussion folders and default threads for each week. We're pretty much good to go.

Feel free to invite anyone you feel would be interested. Looks like we have nine members at the moment.

Hey, I remembered today where I saw that copy of Broom for Kindle: I have a sample of it on my Kindle app for iPhone! I downloaded the sample a long time back and forgot about it. I wish I'd gone ahead and bought it back then.

I'm certainly in. Schedule looks fine.

I guess I bought a copy of Broom for Kindle when it was available, sometime in Autumn 2010. I don't have any experience doing so, but on proof of hard copy purchased, I'm willing to attempt sharing mine.

Is everyone here a first reader?

Glad to have you onboard, Mitch! AFAIK, Ed is the only one among us who has read Broom. Some of the people here, including me, were involved in a group read DFW's The Pale King. Ed ran that group, and did a great job of it.

Most everyone in the The Pale King group had also read Infinite Jest. I'm not sure if that's true or not of this group. Certainly not a requirement.

Reading schedule is fine with me, although I'm almost done with it LOL Couldn't put it down once I got started. Thanks, James, for all your work for the group.

I was in the Pale King group, but have not yet read Infinite Jest. Bought a copy when I got Broom, so I'm ready for that next.

Supposedly a bio of DFW is being published this fall. Does anyone know anything about that - by the same fellow that edited Pale King.

I look forward to re-reading BofTS. I've been meaning to read it again. I love DFW, read all he's published, etc. I have plenty of DFW Fantods that will probably want in on the group.

Welcome! We are glad to have you with us.

Great idea to start this group. Have to admit that I have been hesitant to read Broom because of the way which Wallace discussed it to David Lipsky in Although of Course You End Up Becoming Yourself. Wallace was kind of negative when commenting on the book and it seemed not proud of it. That said I am sure it is fabulous. Anyways, I look forward to the group read. It seems to be the best way to keep me on task with DFW's work. I also need to stop rereading his other stuff and move on to something that I haven't read:-) Thanks for the invitation, James.

Glad to see many faces from the Pale King group, and welcome to everyone who is entirely new. Ed did a fantastic job of running that group and I'm largely following his model.

I'm eager to see how Broom is. I've read just a few pages of it so far. I'm keeping in mind that it's a first novel, and that it's probably going to be a little more conventional than his later work.

I don't really worry too much about DFW himself thought of it. To keep growing as an artist, you almost have to look with reservations about your earlier work. I remember a documentary where they asked Frank Lloyd Wright what he thought his best work was. He told them it was what was on his drafting table right now. I think that's an essential mindset for producing art. But it requires a different one to more-or-less objectively evaluate it.

Soooo excited!! I am glad the reading schedule is not too ambitious since I've got plenty of reading to do for school... though I know if it's like any other DFW I've read I'll have trouble putting it down :) I am going to get it from the library but I'll wait till the end of September (if it was just lying around here I would be too tempted)
Such a great idea to do this James, thanks for putting this group together! This is the book I wanted to read next so it's perfect!

I think we can use the separate discussion boards for each week as a way to allow people reading ahead to discuss things w/o spoiling it for people who are following the schedule or lagging behind. So long as everyone abides the spoiler line for the particular forum in which he/she is posting, all will be well.

Okay. Got all the weekly folders set up, I think. Added spoiler line info to each.

Hi Everyone!

I'm willing to do a re-read of Infinite Jest after this book because I met Paola and Ed after I finished it, so I didn't get the benefit of group discussion. In fact, I started reading it on a dare by a fellow librarian who didn't make it more than a few chapters before giving up. Plus, I'm sure it could stand a re-read.

Thanks for putting things together, James. This should be a fun couple of months! DFWFTW!!

This will be my first group read online. I have read everything by DFW EXCEPT "Everything and More," which--even though I was once a college math major--left me in the dust. I re-read "IJ" as a regular thing. I still want to write extensively about Wallace. I have read "Broom" before, and I would just say don't jump to conclusions about "conventional."

The schedule looks good to me. How does the group function? I.E., do we wait for a prompt from the convener/leader before we comment? Is there a deadline for comments/questions for each Read? As I said, this is new to me. Please be patient if it takes me awhile to figure out how we function.

Welcome Juanitapat. I've been giving some thought to group mechanics. Here's what I think will work. Comments are welcome:

1. For each week of the reading, there's a discussion folder with a "General Discussion" topic. You post your thoughts on the week's readings either as a comment on the existing topic or by creating a new topic.

2. Mind that any new topics you create are created in the appropriate folder (there's a drop-down on the New Topic form).

3. Abide by the spoiler line when you post. The spoiler line will be the last page in any week's date range. So, if today were October 1, 2011, the spoiler line would be page 52 (i.e. end of Chapter 3). So there should be no mention in the Week 1 folder of anything that happens past page 52, no matter how insignificant you think it might be. Don't even allude to future events. One man's insignificant detail is another man's spoiler.

From there, I haven't made up my mind entirely. Do we want to use the weekly folders to allow people further along to discuss things deeper into the book (regardless of the actual date)? For instance, can a discussion be going down in the Week 2 folder on October 1 as well, but concerning things up to the Week 2 spoiler line (page 93, end of chapter 6)? I think that would be a good idea, but I'm afraid I might be missing something.

The other approach would be to simply hold everyone to the spoiler line based upon date. This is how it's generally done. This would mean no one should mention anything that happens in Chapter 4 until 10/8/2011 (first day of Week 2).

What I have decided is you don't have to wait until a week is over before you discuss things. As soon as 10/1/2011 lands, the spoiler line is at page 52. If you've already read Chapters 1-3 and want to post something about them on 10/1, you're more than welcome to do so. Those still reading will have the good sense to get through before diving into that week's folder, or risk spoilers.

Does that sound reasonable? Anyone have thoughts on the linear vs. concurrent idea with respect to posting?

I think it would be good to be able to post on any week, as long as it's in the right spoiler line folder. So if you're ahead one week you can still post instead of probably forgetting what you meant to say.

I like the idea, too. My only fear is that people would get email notifications for new posts and would follow them into discussions that are further along than they anticipated. As long as we're aware of that possibility, we should be okay.

Also, I guess it goes without saying, try not to put a spoiler in the name of a topic, if you can help it.

I'm in the middle of chapter 3 right now, BTW, and enjoying it.

"Most really pretty girls have pretty ugly feet, and so does Mindy Metalman, Lenore notices, all of a sudden."

That's an opening line only DFW could write. :)

I guess we can try going with the "concurrent conversation" idea, with the proviso that, if it is an obvious failure, we ditch it and hold everyone to the same date-based spoiler line.

Sound groovy? I'm really stoked for October 1 to get here.

Looking forward to diving in with everyone. I picked this book up today and will start tonight!

I put this in the pre-read folder because it deals with DFW and his work, but not BOTS.

This is fascinating. I don't watch anything on TV except my Netflix films, and I read news on-line. I actually only get ten channels - I don't want to pay about $85 per month for extended cable I don't watch.

So, I had heard so much about Tina Fey recently, winning Emmy's for 30Rock, that I ordered the discs from Netflix for the first three seasons. I had no idea what it was about, other than Alec Baldwin was in it. It amazed me that I consistently thought of DFW's "E Unibus Pluram: Televison and US Fiction (1993) in "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again" while watching the discs.

His take (in 1993) of TV mocking itself so viewers feel in on the joke and continuing watching their 6 hrs. a day to catch the ads is spot on! 30Rock blatantly mocks NBC, and as DFW predicts with shows of this type, people keep watching because they are in on the mocking fun of it, and feel "above" all the normal garbage on TV.

From the essay, "it (TV) can induce in him (the viewer) precisely the feeling of canny superiority it's taught him to crave, and keep him dependent on the cynical TV watching that alone affords this feeling."

And, "Too, the ironic tone of TV's self-reference means that no one can accuse TV of trying to put anything over on anybody. As essayist Lewis Hyde points out, self-mocking irony is always "sincerity, with a motive." Yes - to keep you bombarded with ads.

Fortunately, the Netflix 30Rock dvds have no ads.

BTW, Tina Fey is pretty funny as a script writer - the back and forth sequences reminded me of "Seinfeld."