Debates of all sorts discussion

What happens after you die?

Your body rots :P

He he... You get put in a coffin :) or cremated.

True, then your body doesn't rot. ^-^

Yep! But then the nutrients from your body don't get returned to the earth so you won't benefit it... That is the reason I wouldn't get cremated...

So generous ;P I never even thought about it, actually....

I never did till recently... I still got 80-90 years left (I'm saying this on an assumption of an increase of life expectancy over the years...)

I might; it depends on which plans I end up carrying out '-_- I really don't want to die of old age though....

Why not?

It's basically your body expiring, if that makes sense...and I don't want to leave it to expire '-_- But I'm totally against suicide too, which leaves a bit of a problem :P

Yeah... But I want to live a long happy life...

Doesn't everyone? It doesn't always work out though...well, we shall just see what ends up happening :P

Yeah...

Aleph wrote: "i think it's very hard to know what happens after you die. my mum knows someone who died and then was brought back to life at the hospital. they told her they could see themselves in the ambulance ..."

Those visions are very common things. They are caused due to a lack of oxygen in the brain, or if the brain is so oxygen deprived a image it makes after the fact to make up for the complete loss of consciousness.

Yep, the most common thing seen is the bright light then nothing.

There you go, looking at something spiratural thorugh the lens of science.

I just...how do you believe that everything just ends? Wouldn't that make you terrified of dying? That suddenly you just don't exist anymore and you're forgotton? That someone your soul dies with your body?

That also doesn't make sense. I don't believe in reincarnation; but I believe in heaven. But like I said before, I'm Mormon, so me trying to explain how we view heaven would be strange to most people, so I won't even try.

Thalia wrote: "There you go, looking at something spiratural thorugh the lens of science.

I just...how do you believe that everything just ends? Wouldn't that make you terrified of dying? That suddenly you just..."

I think it's reasonable to believe that death is just the end. Blind faith isn't enough for everyone, and there is no solid evidence that there is an afterlife.

And yes, it is terrifying to think of it that way ... but whatever we believe, it's not going to change what happens in the end.

Personally, I'm open to anything because obviously, I have no idea what will happen. I think we might pass on to some other life or dimension or something. I don't believe it's as black-and-white as Heaven and Hell, but there may be something.

Also, I don't like the assumption that "no one will understand" if you explain your views of heaven. Even if no one else here is Mormon, it doesn't mean they're not interested in your point of view.

Hey people! I really do not want to get into this debate, but i do want to hear Thalia's point of view. I'm a baptist and have heard of mormans, but i don't exactly know what they believe. Can you explain Thalia, if you please?

(See? ^_^)

Hahah, usually people are like, "GTO Mormon; nobody even wants you here," so I'm used to just...walking away, hahaha.

I think just believing it all ends is incredibly scary. I mean, I understand why nobody would believe there's something more; there's obviously no real proof of it; I just think the alternative is like, totally terrifying, hahah.

We also don't believe it's so black and white as Heaven and Hell. That makes it seem like...if you didn't get it ALL right you're in for eternal suffering. We believe in three different...levels of heaven. The most "righteous" (in the Mormon faith, that means being well...virtuous, obeying commandments, being married in one of our temples, being baptized, etc.) will be sent to the top degree.

The "second" level is for people who weren't necessarily baptized in our church, or didn't have a chance to learn the gospel on earth (since well...we're Mormon, everything is set according to our beliefs--> sorry, it's a bit confusing if you haven't grown up in the church, hahaha), but still led good and decent lives and followed the commandments and believed in God and all of that stuff.

Then the lowest level is for people who led immoral lives, but didn't do...like terrible things, like mass murder, rape, etc and never repented for it. I mean, I don't want to offend anybody; that's not at all my inention. It's hard to phrase so that you don't like...piss off a bunch of people who don't believe the same way. Anyway, people like...who broke commandments, like breaking laws of chastity, or adultery, etc.

"Hell" is what we call outer darkness. And that's only for terrible people, who did really awful things they knew were totally wrong and murdered and raped and committed all sorts of awful sins and really enjoyed it; like never repented, never admitted they were wrong, even though they knew what they did was evil and just wrong. People like...like Hitler, who killed millions of people for no moral reason at all. I mean, I can't even hardly think of that many examples, there's that few people I think would be actually be sent somewhere so awful.

I think the "regular" view that there's only one Heaven and one Hell, and if you mess up one thing; even if you're a totally good and moral person otherwise, to be sent to Hell just for that? I believe God is more merciful than that. I don't think He'd ship you off to Hell for not being perfect, because we aren't perfect. That's why we're human.

But, dear heavens, if anybody has questions about Mormons, please ask me. Most people seem to have these convoluted ideas of what we believe that are totally insane. Like that we're not Christians or something (even though the NAME of our chuch is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints). *facepalm*

Man, I hope any of that made sense, hahaha.

Thalia wrote: "Man, I hope any of that made sense, hahaha."

Yeah, it made sense. Thanks for sharing. :]

Thalia wrote: "Hahah, usually people are like, "GTO Mormon; nobody even wants you here," so I'm used to just...walking away, hahaha.

I think just believing it all ends is incredibly scary. I mean, I understand w..."

Thanks Thalia! Now i have somewhat of an idea of what the differences between our beliefs are. Of course, we are both Christians, but my view of Heaven and Hell is a little different. Anyways, that's all i wanted to know. You guys can go back to dabating now. Bye!

I'm really not afraid of death. I actually want to what it's like. Even if there is nothing after it (even though I dont believe that) I'm not scared of it. My whole life is just leading up to death, so why be afraid of something you know has to happen?

Celine, that's a really interesting way of looking at it! I'm not afraid of death either, but then again, I believe there's something more. I don't know how I'd feel if I believed there was nothing else.

What's your view, Brie? I don't really know any Baptists, so I don't know much about the Baptist faith. If you want to share, I'd like to listen. (:

Ok! I hoped you would ask me that. Well i believe in Heaven and Hell , like you, but in a different way. I believe that there is just one Heaven ( no levels) and that anyone who has accepted Jesus as the Christ and their personal savior and God as the one and only true God will get into Heaven. Of course, these people have to actually show their faith in God by living their lives in a Godly way. They will sin becuase all humans sin, but God will forgive them if they repent since God is a loving, merciful God. I cannot say who will go to Heaven and who won't, but I know that people who continously deny God after they have heard of Him and chose to live ungodly lives cannot be allowed into Heaven. I am still unsure what will happen to the people in other parts in the world, such as the jungles in africa, who have never heard of God, but I am think that God will not send them to Hell becuase they did not know of Him. But it's different if they chose to ignore Him if a missionary came to them. Overall, whether u get into Heaven or not depends on your beliefs and actions. Being a good person won't cut it. I'm kinda afraid of death, but I know that as long as I keep my faith in God, I will have a better life after death.

Cody wrote: "Aleph wrote: "i think it's very hard to know what happens after you die. my mum knows someone who died and then was brought back to life at the hospital. they told her they could see themselves in ..."

Or cody, they are caused by actual visions. Like Brie, I believe in heaven and hell and God chooses where we go.

Finally, someone else agrees with Me, Thalia, and Celine! Lol ok I'll let you guys get back to debating. Bye!

:)

Okay I'm on my cell so I can't really quote everyone while doing this so I'm just going to answer by addressing the general statements that were said.

Okay firstly, you talked about the fear of death. Think of it this way, you weren't alive for billions of years before you were born, do you fear that time period? Death will be just like that.

Next, one thing I have problems with is people saying that even though all the evidence is against a creator, if I don't believe in a deity, even if I live a great and kind life, I'll go to Hell. That is evil, and any god who would do that doesn't deserve worship.

Next, Celine said this, about the visions. We have evidence they were delusions created by lack of oxygen in the brain, why believe any different? That is called ignorance.

Wait, when did I say anything about visions? I just said I want to know what its like to die.

Crap sorry Celine I meant LuhvBooks (I think)

That makes sense now :-)

Cody wrote: "if I don't believe in a deity, even if I live a great and kind life, I'll go to Hell."

Actually, my post is everything opposite that. If you read it, I said we believe only really truly awful and terrible people actually go to Hell. I can't speak for any other faith, but I don't believe that if live a good and moral life, you'll go to Hell for a few things that aren't "perfect".

There's not evidence for a lot of things. But...I don't believe everything needs proof. I think faith has a place and should be used.

Thalia wrote: "Hahah, usually people are like, "GTO Mormon; nobody even wants you here," so I'm used to just...walking away, hahaha.

I think just believing it all ends is incredibly scary. I mean, I understand w..."

You said to ask questions if we wanted, so...I have one if you wouldn't mind? What about the non-believers -- those who didn't necessarily sin but are atheists? Where would they go in your religion? Would they go to the lowest level of heaven, to the outer darkness (way cooler name than hell btw, although with my luck that may actually offend you instead of being a compliment like intended), or with the normal people who just led normal lives? There...doesn't seem to be a place there for them...or is atheism like a sin, too?

Thalia wrote: "Hahah, usually people are like, "GTO Mormon; nobody even wants you here," so I'm used to just...walking away, hahaha.

I think just believing it all ends is incredibly scary. I mean, I understand w..."

That clears up a lot, thanks Thalia :)

Mello, no worries. I think we call it outer darkness because of all the misconceptions of Hell. I mean, it's like Hell; you're lost and lonely and you relive your sins over and over again, with a full knowledge of how terrible the things that have been done were. (Well, I mean, obviously I've never been, but...you know. XD)

So, I'd probably say that atheists go to the lowest level of Heaven. That level isn't in the presence of God or Jesus Christ, and it won't be as great as the upper levels, but it'll still be a thousand times better than outer darkness. Like I said, only truly, terrible and evil people would go there.

So, first level for the people who did things we teach; baptized in our church, married/sealed in our temples, following our teachings, repent, etc.

Second level for people who knew God, and belived in Him and Christ and the Bible, and were good people who repented for their wrongs and all of that. But they didn't have the "fulness", because there was no modern revelation or the Book of Mormon, which clears up a lot of stuff not too clear in the Bible.

And then third level for the "normal people who led normal lives" as you would say.

But, it's ultimately God who is the judge. That's just sort of the guideline used for a reference, you know? Intents, not just actions, are judged; so if you did some good things, but you had evil intentions for doing them, that would be counted, too.

I hope that makes sense?

Thalia wrote: "Mello, no worries. I think we call it outer darkness because of all the misconceptions of Hell. I mean, it's like Hell; you're lost and lonely and you relive your sins over and over again, with a f..."

It does make lots of sense, thank you for clearing that up :)

Aleph wrote: "I find it so hard to get my head around the idea of forever! For me, living for ever is scarier than death."

Death is just another stage of life, in the end. But I disagree :P

Thalia wrote: "Cody wrote: "if I don't believe in a deity, even if I live a great and kind life, I'll go to Hell."

Actually, my post is everything opposite that. If you read it, I said we believe only really tru..."

Well yes but most say otherwise, and I'm against faith, belief without evidence is ignorance and I believe is just wrong.

Aleph, like Mello said, death is just another stage. And it goes by much more quickly. I don't remember where it was, but in one of my Sunday school classes we figured out time compared to how the scriptures say what God's time is. Our lifetimes actually had up to about twelve minutes of God's time, hahaha.

Cody, you're against faith? I don't know...I think I'd feel awfully lonely if I didn't believe someone was there and knew who I was and what I was going through.

But there isn't? Your comforting yourself with a delusion. I'm very happy knowing that there isn't someone constantly watching and judging me. Besides, it's not like you can communicate with a god. If your talking to god your praying, if he talks back, your crazy.

Exactly. Its just nothing. There's someone watching over me, always guiding me. I dont need fact-based evidence to prove it. I know it, and you don't believe me, well thats too bad for you.

That's ignorance. Why do you believe in something without evidence? You have no proof that it's real other then some chemicals going through your brain when you pray making you feel like you're actually doing something. So why do you continue believing? Like I've said, I can believe I'm a millionaire but it doesn't make it true.

Cody, don't you start telling me I'm "delusional" because I have faith in something. It's incredibly hard to explain that feeling you get in knowing that you're not always alone. And someone like you, who is so set that everything is science-based and nothing can exist without proof, you won't understand it. You can't, if you refuse to even consider.

He doesn't necessarily "talk" to you. You pray to God, and then? Those prayers are answered through events, feelings, all sorts of things. You don't need an answer in words to know you got one.

There are lots of things i believe in that I can't see or there is no proof. But I still believe. Where would mankind be without faith? Where would mankind be without God?

Thalia, I used to be Christian, I know what you're talking about. But that doesn't mean it's true. The human mind is easily deluded. Those prayers aren't answered you may get lucky or through perseverance and skill succeed but what do you say if it doesn't happen chances are "It was god's plan" See it's a win win situation for God and a lose lose situation for logic.

Do I seriously get lucky everytime I pray and God answers my prayers? Seriously?

Yeah. "Oh please god, let me win this *insert sport here* game" You win through skill and being the better team "Thank you god, our win has nothing to do with us just being better" I mean really. Really? OR You lose "Oh god, I understand, it was all part of your plan"

It's luck, skill, or perseverance, no divine intervention.

You don't pray to win a game. :| That is just mockery.

You pray when you're suffering. You pray when you desperately need help to do something. And prayers are not always answered in the way you think they will be.

That doesn't mean a person doesn't also work for their answer. You can't just sit around and let it happen, and if something happens, then yay. But say I study really hard for a test and I pray for some help, that I can remember what I've studied and I do well? Woo hoo; some of that was me, and some of that was God helping me work through the pressure. Say I don't study and pray and do poorly? That's not God's fault; nor was that His plan. I mean, it's my fault for not studying, and I shouldn't expect God to give me a free ride just because I asked for one.

Cody, I don't know what else to tell you. I don't know what happened along the way for you to cause you to totally disregard faith, but it's your choice. I'm asking you not to call us "delusional" just because YOU fell away from the belief.