Bodice Ripper Readers Anonymous discussion

Several months ago, one bodiceripper fan asked people on this forum for bodiceripper book titles where the heroine is NOT raped by anyone else but the male protagonist. I thought it odd, because isn't the bodiceripper by definition a subgenre of the romance novels that is supposed to be more sexual and more graphic and extreme? Isn't the whole purpose of the bodiceripper to depict a scenario or story that involves the heroine confronting sexual peril at every turn, not just from the man she's attracted towards? Therefore I'll ask the political incorrect question. What are the bodiceripper titles where the heroine is raped, ravished, or imperiled by other men besides the sole male protagonist. As far as I recall, that is the classical bodiceripper. I've come across some old bodicerippers published back in the early and mid-70s. The heroines of those bodicerippers faced and endured some pretty rough sex at the hands of a number of rough characters. Don't forget, the typical bodiceripper heroine is not a wilting homebody. She tends to be more the adventurous and outdoors type prone to traveling and travails, all of which exposes her to many, many more men in the world, not all of which are nice guys.
I'm not a squeamish bodiceripper reader who shys away from the underlying pornographic element in the bodiceripper. As far as I'm concerned, bring it on! More porn sex! Why not? If you're squeamish about bodiceripper rough sex, then read a regular romance novel. A bodiceripper without the sex and rapes is not a bodiceripper then, right? It just becomes another regular romance novel. From what I perceive, the classic bodiceripper heroine of the 70s books had to tough it out with a minimum of three rapes per book, not counting the rough sex from the man she'll eventually fall in love with in the story. I love these tough historical young gals. They take a licking and keep on ticking. They shrug off rapes like an NFL running back stiff arming tackles and linebackers. No emotional trauma for these resilient, resolute young women. The purpose of the bodiceripper is to prove to everyone just what a real woman she is... she can be raped (several times) but she can't be defeated. In the end she's going to prevail over all adversity and find lasting love and happiness with the man whose wildness she's tamed with her body and her resolute will. So what's the titles of the best bodicerippers where the heroine takes it all in by several or many bad men and of course, emerges at the novel's end as the ultimate winner? Oh, and yes, I relish a good historical background story, especially one that proves how educated the writer is and that she did her homework with historical veracity and detail. The world needs more female writers of bodicerippers to sublimate and project out their deepest recesses of their sexual ids.

Wow... That's quite a long post. You're right though, about that being the standard BR (bodice-ripper). There are still quite a few that don't have that element, but I think they were mainly published in the 90s.

Anyway, here's some suggestions for you. Probably anyone else in this group would suggest the same things.

Sweet Savage Love and the rest of the Morgan-Challenger series. This has exactly what you want and plenty more besides. It's a pretty intense book and the rest of the series (I've heard) is pretty much the same. Also lots of historical detail.

Love and War. There's actually a Buddy Read for this one going on. I've read about half of it, and I can tell you, it is filled to the brim with kidnapping, gang rape, gore and more gore. The heroine ends up working in a field hospital in the Civil War. Very gory. This one is also a series and has lots of historical detail.

The Silver Devil and The Flesh and the Devil do not have rape by anyone besides the hero. They're also not very graphic. The author mainly uses metaphors to describe the sex scenes. However, they are very, very well written books that contain a fair amount of historical detail.

Stormfire. I think this book has rape by others, but I'm not completely positive. But even if it doesn't, the hero is violent enough to make up for it. And there's a ton of historical detail about one of the Irish Revolutions. There's also lots of other horrible things that happen to the hero and heroine.

There's also Rangoon. I haven't read it, but I hear it has many of the same BR elements as Stormfire (they're by the same author).

Devil's Embrace. Some pretty horrific gang rape in here, plus a super-creepy stalker hero. I've read most of this book. Some people in this group really can't stand this book because the hero is just that creepy. As in, he kidnaps the heroine because he was in love with her mother. Not really any historical detail. This isn't one of those epic BRs. I only mention it because of the gang rape.

Purity's Passion and the rest of the series. I did read this book, not the rest though. This is reasonably explicit, but still contains a fair amount of metaphors. The heroine isn't exactly raped, but again, there's multiple partners, and most of them are not ones she would have chosen herself. There could have been one or two rapes though, and she is almost raped more than once. There's also some really horrific details about the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution. The hero is absent for most of the book, and it's mainly about the heroine and her misadventures.

Well, that's about it. But there's plenty more on the group's bookshelf here. Plus, some group members have some really huge and well-organized personal bookshelves that you could check out.

Those are for sure the best of the best Evelyn! :)

Evelyn made a great list, and I second "Love and War." That one has the type of heroine you're talking about. And I got a huge kick out of your summary of that type of gal. Those are the types I like, too.

I'd also suggest The Power and the Passion by Christina Nicholson (aka Christopher Nicole). That had some lusty and busty adventures with a very resilient heroine. Her/His harem-set The Savage Sands is also in the same vein.

For pure porny harem perils, there's Bitter Passion, Sweet Love. It's expensive on the OP market (and not worth the $, IMO) but if you can score a cheap copy somewhere it's worth a read.

I also recommend early Bertrice Small titles, like Adora, Love Wild and Fair, and Beloved.

And one that completely meets your criteria is Savage Surrender.

I agree with you about the multi-partner, eternally in sexual peril heroine romances being the real bodice rippers. Those stories have the heroine suffering an unbelievable amount of crap from all quarters and the reader has to give the plucky lass credit for making it to the HEA without an STD.

I guess the "fan' would be me? I have read the gory BRs and the mild BRs ..... I love HEA and light weight BRs. I love recommendations because others here have done the work in reading so many books they tell me what I might be interested in. I try to be cautious when choosing a book. That is just me...... I am shallow. LOL

Thanks, Evelyn, for your reply and suggestions.
I have a suggestion of my own. Trying reading, "Savage In Silk", (1973), by Donna Comeaux Zide. It's one of the best, well-written, historical bodice-ripper novels I've come across. The book caters to educated bodicerippers who like reading historical-based fiction dramatization while mixing in their favorite doses of graphic, hormone-surging, lurid, graphic, anatomically-correct usage, multiple rape, forced sex, forced orgasm, super-bodiceripper heroine adventures. The heroine is a beautiful, kind-hearted and passionate offspring of a lurid rape between a 15-year old, blue-eyed, blonde teen pioneer settler girl on the early 19th century American frontier and a wild, virile, and of course, potent Indian male warrior brave who causes a forced orgasm on the hapless blonde girl. Zide wrote other bodicerippers but all very tame compared to this one and I don't know why she wrote one super-charged bodiceripper among her works.
The bodiceripper tries to teach a few points in life. Being a beautiful young woman carries its own occupational hazard. Men have an overwhelming biological need for sex, like eating and drinking, and a young woman can easily find herself on the unasked end of this biological breeding urge. But if a young woman can internalize all this and wrap her mind around it, then it shields her from the emotional and psychological ravages of rape from the wilder, nastier younger men who cannot restrain their biological needs. It's not always a cut and dried fantasy of female writers. There have been some very astonishing, gut-wrenching, provocative, and particularly nasty side elements. Sometimes the female writer described one or two bodiceripper rapists in very unsavory terms. In one early 70s bodiceripper, which takes place during the French Revolution, the heroine is assailed by a dirty, unwashed man who is one of several leaders of a angry street mob. The writer describes the man's body odor and unwashed genitals in such graphic terms that it creeped even me out. I love that women have just as deep, dark, and pervy, porny fantasies as us guys. It just means you're 'normal' like us, ha, ha, ha!

Thanks, Sandi and Karla! Coming from you, that's quite a compliment. And you're welcome, Jeff! :)

Wow, that book sounds pretty hardcore. I'm on a paranormal and alien spree right now, but I might get around to it sooner or later.

Yes, in a BR, being exotically beautiful woman is probably the worst luck in the world. And obviously, if BRs were all just awesome rape fantasies where the heroines are only assaulted by the heroes, they wouldn't be nearly as painful fun to read. ;)

LOL, I would actually say that womens' fantasies are deeper, darker, pervier and pornier than mens'. :P And I enjoy being 'normal' to the fullest extent possible.

But I think you may have gotten the wrong impression (understandably). I actually prefer books where the hero is the only rapist, although that doesn't mean I won't read ones with gang rape. I also dislike books with lots of historical detail, mainly because I detest history as a subject of study, almost as much as I detest poetry. I just find the long descriptions of inane details really boring. These reasons are why I don't read the epics too often. That, and just the fact that they're really stressful, so I have to put some time between BRs.

But all this doesn't mean that I won't stoop to reading an especially violent and disturbing, epic BR every now and then. Right now though, I'm sticking to quick and easy paranormals that I can finish in a day. So, maybe after this fall quarter of college is over, when I finish my 3 fan fics, and when I have the time and money to spend on a few out-of-print BRs, I'll get around to it.

Interesting topic, Jeff. Thanks for starting it.

I guess I'm just going to draw a small distinction. The typical bodice ripper is still a romance. That is, they are love stories. Those of us who read BR's have a tolerance for the less PC and, yes, more historically accurate elements of bodice rippers (in other words, rape was a fact of life through much of history, and we don't mind books that portray life as it was back then). But we still have certain expectations of a good love story, and one of those expectations is a real HEA. The hero and heroine can be complete products of their times. If he's a conqueror he can claim her as his booty and treat her as such. If he's a Victorian husband, he can demand his marital rights and even force the issue. But by the end, readers of romance want to see the relationship mature into what we recognize as love. The hero needs to come to cherish the heroine and want to protect and honor her rather than abuse her. He needs, hopefully, to realize that he's done her wrong and if not atone, at least give her reason to believe she can expect better in the future. Ideally, too, the heroine will become someone who respects herself and her man enough to demand better. I don't need the heroine to become a modern, "empowered" woman, but I do need her not to be a meek little doormat, at least if the book wants to end up with a permanent spot in my library.

As for rape by other than the hero, if it is a legitimate part of the story and not just tossed in for sensation and titillation, I have no problem with it; I've seen some really compelling stories where this was something the heroine and hero overcame together. If I'm supposed to "get off" on the degradation and physical abuse of the heroine, then I wouldn't categorize the book as romance. It's rape porn, and that's a different thing, and definitely NOT my thing.

If you disagree, then here are a couple books that I found emotionally riveting and completely unsatisfying, which you might like for exactly those reasons: Island Flame and Sea Fire. Some books by Bertrice Small and Rosemary Rogers might also suit.

Hi Elle,
By the way, Elle is a beautiful name. Well, I have nothing to disagree with you. Everybody gets something they want out of the bodiceripper novel, whether it's lasting love in the end, or sexual fantasies from one extreme to the other. I don't pretend the bodiceripper is anything else than what it is unabashedly. The bodiceripper allows us outlets for our primal human needs, love, sex, and wilder sex. You want to see the heroine overcome all adversity and win her lasting love. I want the same thing too. It's just that when men read the bodiceripper, we get turned on more by the physical aspects of sex. I don't make any judgments on it. It's how we're hard-wired. I like to see the heroine win out in the end, too, and I still like the wild and rough sex in it like many of the readers. My perception is that everyone on this forum is an educated person and yet here we are, reading and discussing what is in essence, politically incorrect sexually-oriented romance novels. Let's just accept who we are, sexually-oriented homo sapiens with big brains. Enjoy and cheers.

If you think men are the only ones who read BRs for the rape porn, you are sorely mistaken. I happen to be one of those evil women who inexplicably enjoys reading that. In fact, I would actually prefer to read a book where the anti-hero wins out in the end. Meek heroines are just my thing. The 'modern, empowered heroines' get under my skin to the point where I want to just kill them and throw their bodies into the river.

In fact, if any of you know of any books like that, I'd be happy to hear about them.

If a BR has both lots of history and a heroine who goes through Hell before the last page, I'm such a happy camper. I like tons of dwama as compared to the more self-absorbed emo stuff I've read in the newer romances. All of the stresses the H/h go through today seem to me more internal rather than external. So I feel like I'm reading a bunch of naval-gazing rather than dynamic trials and tribulations.

Karla (Mossy Love Grotto) wrote: "If a BR has both lots of history and a heroine who goes through Hell before the last page, I'm such a happy camper. I like tons of dwama as compared to the more self-absorbed emo stuff I've read in..."

Im SO with you on that Karla! :)

Karla (Mossy Love Grotto) wrote: "If a BR has both lots of history and a heroine who goes through Hell before the last page, I'm such a happy camper. I like tons of dwama as compared to the more self-absorbed emo stuff I've read in..."
I get you on that point. I've been polishing off a pile of Regencies by a popular author whose later books were good enough that I bought everything she wrote. Unfortunately, her earlier works relied on exactly that self-absorbed emotional stuff for the conflict and drama. It's also a bit annoying that her heroes are all rakes (and they think of themselves, and speak of themselves in those terms, which I have some question about - did rakes of the day actually go around identifying themselves as rakes to others and talking about how important it was to them to be rakes?). Many of the heroines are, of course, bluestockings. Meh. As I say, her later stuff got over this; and her early work was for Harlequin, which I think was pretty formulaic, so probably not the author's fault if the books are formulaic. But I'll be &%R$*(#)@ glad to get back to some good Medievals with something other than the "loves me, loves me not" angst to create the drama of the story.

Elle wrote: "It's also a bit annoying that her heroes are all rakes (and they think of themselves, and speak of themselves in those terms, which I have some question about - did rakes of the day actually go around identifying themselves as rakes to others and talking about how important it was to them to be rakes?)"

What a good point, Elle. Also, I definitely agree with you about Medievals. They're my favorite setting for BRs. Regencies can get very old.

The Medieval period lends itself pretty well to BR's. Lots of conquering and lawlessness going on, and social rules weren't as crazy.

Yeah, people in regencies got a little more up-in-arms about rape. In medievals they were just totally cool about it. :P

I've only read mainly Lindsey and Catherine Coulter as far as medievals go, are there any good ones you can recommend?

If you haven't read The Wolf and the Dove or A Kingdom of Dreams yet, you should. Brenda Joyce wrote a couple really good ones (that are BR's too!). I also liked Medievals by Jo Beverley, Virginia Henley, and Madeline Hunter, though some of these are too recent to be BR's. I'll have to dive into Catherine Coulter once I finish off my current TBR pile.

Hmm, I think I'll avoid KEW for now. I've tried a few of her books and found them to be way to boring to finish. I did read The Raven and the Rose by Henley. It looks like Jo Beverley did mainly regencies though. I'll have to check out Brenda Joyce though. I read one of her books and wow...

I'd beware of Coulter. Her heroes are among the most asinine and the least penitent. She is truly the master of Stockholm Syndrome, as shown in Devil's Embrace. Her Medieval Song series was definitely one of her best works though. But my advice for that series is to skip or skim the first book, 'cause it's crap. The heroine, Chandra is extremely annoying. The heroines from the later books are much better.

Interestingly, the 2nd book is about a minor villain from the 1st book. You could really just read the beginning and the end of the 1st and you'd be prepared the 2nd, without going through the hassle.

Evelyn wrote: "Hmm, I think I'll avoid KEW for now. I've tried a few of her books and found them to be way to boring to finish. I did read The Raven and the Rose by Henley. It looks like Jo Beverle..."

Hmmm. Which of KEW's books did you try? You might be surprised by TW&TD.

Yeah, Brenda Joyce writes some STEAMY stuff. And somehow manages to do it in a way that I don't find either gross or giggle-inducing. I pretty much like all of her historicals. Not that keen on the contemporaries or paranormals, but probably because those aren't my cup of tea anyway.

Let's see, I tried A Rose in Winter and The Flame and the Flower. With both of them, I had to stop in the middle because they just got so boring.

Strange, I find it both gross and giggle-inducing, which is mainly why I read it. ;)

People who write BRs shouldn't write contemporaries and paranormals, and people who write contemporaries and paranormals shouldn't write BRs.

Evelyn wrote: "Let's see, I tried A Rose in Winter and The Flame and the Flower. With both of them, I had to stop in the middle because they just got so boring.

Strange, I find it bot..."

OK, well, Rose in Winter wasn't one of my faves. But TF&TF boring??????? That first sex scene between H/h was pretty hair-raising, and I was riveted after that trying to figure out how they could possibly wind up together, and wondering whether I even really wanted them to. I thought KEW did some seriously good work redeeming the hero in that one.

Funny, a lot of people really prefer Brenda Joyce's paranormals to her historicals. So she must be good at those also. I'm just not into paranormals at all.

I hate to admit it, but I actually find myself skimming or even skipping pages in most romances when the clothes start to fly. Usually they just don't do anything for me and I find myself impatient to see them end so we can get on with the story. When a writer manages to handle the scenes so that I want to read them, I consider it a bonus. If I find myself rolling my eyes or groaning or giggling, it takes me right out of the mood of the scene.

Well, of course I loved the first part of TF&TF. But after that one sex scene, everyone around the h were all so nice and... Ugh, it was just... boring. And, the fact is, people don't think in flowery prose. And they don't talk to themselves like that either. The style of writing just bothered me.

I've never read anything of Joyce except The Conqueror. I actually really like paranormals though. But there are plenty of other authors who are better at writing them.

The rest of her DeWarrenne series is also good, except the contemporary/paranormal. I read it just to finish the series, but didn't like it. After the first couple, though, she moves out of the Medieval period and into later eras.

Oh, and while people currently don't think like that, I thought Woodiwiss actually did a good job of writing more the style of the period. It helped me put myself in the period - and people did speak and think in more flowery language back in the day.

Yeah, I just looked at how many there were in the series and went, "...No ****ing way."

Not keen on series?

Sometimes I love them, especially paranormals. Like Immortals after Dark and Lords of the Underworld. But other times... Like the Coltrane series and Gray Eagle series. Just So. Long.

If I like the author and the characters, then I like series. If they're going to just recycle the same storyline over and over, not so much.

I prefer series where each book has a different couple but the characters are all related in some way. Like a family of brothers has a series where they all get their own story.

Ones I dislike are where it's the same characters that just keep going through more crap in each book. It's like, c'mon! They got their happy ending in the first book. Why did you have to spoil it?

Evelyn wrote: "Let's see, I tried A Rose in Winter and The Flame and the Flower. With both of them, I had to stop in the middle because they just got so boring."

That's what I've found with KEW when I read Wolf/Dove and Ashes in the Wind. They start out well, but the middle 300 pages are some of the slowest/most boring stuff ever. Then the last 50 pages are full of WTF out of some Victorian melodrama. Which is fine in itself, but the styles and pacings clash terribly.

As for series, I'd rather read about the same people because it seems like if some sibling from one book is given their own book, they often undergo a personality change to fit the cookie-cutter hero/heroine requirements. Blah.

The Old West is a good setting for Bodice Rippers. While he's out conquering the West he conquers his woman.

The West is definitely one of my favorite settings.

I don't like the ones where the same main character(s) are the focus of each book. Where the woman just keeps getting widowed over and over again and of course ravished by yet another husband.

I like my HEA.

I think I'm in a very tiny minority that likes constant tragedy, drama, and death in my romances. :P

Romancelandia has a couple stools and dunce caps in the corner for people like us.

That's the diagonal corner from the Kathleen Woodiwiss one, where I hang out. ;)

LOL! We can toss spitballs and throw paper airplanes at each other. :P

Mary wrote: "I don't like the ones where the same main character(s) are the focus of each book. Where the woman just keeps getting widowed over and over again and of course ravished by yet another husband.
..."

There are ones like that? Talk about a black widow. Sheesh. I was just talking about series like Morgan-Challenger, Coltrane, Gray Eagle... Where it's the same two people just going through more big misunderstandings. I read Island Flame (and quite enjoyed it) but when I discovered there was a sequel with the same h/H, I didn't want to read it because that would just ruin their HEA.

Evelyn wrote: "There are ones like that? Talk about a black widow."

Skye O'Malley. She goes through at least 4 husbands before she finds the one she grows old with. My favorite is the Calvinist firebrand she converts to the ways of the flesh. LOL He's short-lived, but still....awesomely OTT. Damn, must read those books again. :D

Hello, has anyone read Without Honor by Elizabeth Stuart? and If so what can you tell me about it? Is is a boddice ripper?

♥ Cheshire Catt ♠ wrote: "I also can't stand KEW - her books are just soo horribly boring and drag so much in the middle. Her characters go through scene after scene without it having any meaning on the plot and without it..."

Chesh and I have had this convo before, but I thought The Conqueror's characters had more depth, and a LOT of gray areas. Constant struggles with the feelings they had for each other in terms of the morality, the politics, all the terrific reasons they had to totally hate each other...

And yes, the sex was OTT, but... Let's just say other than the one scene where he shows her what he's thinking (which did nada for me), the rest was pretty steamy stuff, IMO.

I would actually agree with Elle about Joyce. I certainly didn't find anything wrong with The Conqueror. Karla's review just made me want to read it more.

I haven't read any more Joyce, but I'm hoping that Conqueror will be the only/one of the few blah ones (IMO, of course!). I still think Ceidre and Ralf were a walking peen & vag.

When I try Joyce again, it'll be an Old West setting. Going to stay away from medievals since Conqueror didn't float my boat.

Karla (Mossy Love Grotto) wrote: "I haven't read any more Joyce, but I'm hoping that Conqueror will be the only/one of the few blah ones (IMO, of course!). I still think Ceidre and Ralf were a walking peen & vag."

How can you say that's a bad thing given the books you like? I think Ginny Morgan, Purity Jarsy and Kitty from Love and War fit that description pretty well.

Maybe it was simply Joyce's style, or that I read The Conqueror too early on or in a certain mood. From what I can remember, I felt like I was getting my face rubbed in their love juices - for lack of a better way to put it. It was something repeated so ad nauseum in the same ways that it annoyed the hell out of me, sort of like all the urine and crap descriptions in Tim Willocks' The Religion. It was like, "ENOUGH, ALREADY!"

I never felt that way. What I like about Joyce is that A) her sex scenes almost always are part of the plot development, rather than a replacement for plot development, B) she uses terms that are direct, accurate, without being offensively explicit or ridiculously coy (i.e., it's his penis, not his love rod). She uses some common vernacular but nothing that euphemizes the nature of the relationship, or makes it so crude it offends.

If I come across another copy of Conqueror, I'll give it a re-read and see if I've changed my mind in the 1 1/2 years since I last read it.

ETA: Or maybe not. A re-read of my review brought it all back to me. :P

True. If I trip over a copy, I'll pick it up. But otherwise, I won't bother.

♥ Cheshire Catt ♠ wrote: "I'm a fan of the more flowery love making language. I think if you are going to have lots of sex scenes in a book than you have to mix it up a little. If you are constantly using the same words -..."

I actually prefer that too. It just seems less obscene and crude. And also, anyone can use the medical terms to describe intercourse, but I thunk it takes at least some skill to describe it all using flowers, cliffs and sunny meadows.