Fantasy Book Club discussion

Mark has kindly agreed to join us for the discussion and if you have questions for him, please post them here.

Hi all - don't leave me Q-less.

Thanks for doing this Mark!

The first introduction to Jorg is quite a brutal depiction. I wasn't sure at first if he was going to be too unlikeable, but I grew to appreciate his determination.

What led you to introduce him to the reader in the way that you did, and did you worry about people hating him before they got to know him, so to speak?

Hi Tad - I think it might help if you picture me maybe seven years ago sitting down late one night and saying to myself 'I fancy a spot of writing'. I don't have a book in mind, or a plot, or a chapter or even a page. All I've got is the idea I'd like to write a character in a similar vein to Anthony Burgess' protagonist in 'A Clockwork Orange' & I'd like to put him in a fantasy setting. I start typing. I'm not thinking this will be a book, and if I were I wouldn't have been thinking it would get published, and the very last thing on my mind was whether those non-anticipated readers would hate the character I was writing. For me good writing is not about appealing to an audience - it's about capturing something you feel worthwhile & having fun doing it.

In fact given what I was writing, judged on the first few chapters, it would be an odd person who didn't find Jorg at least _fairly_ reprehensible.

In short then - good question - but I didn't write for publication, I wasn't thinking about demographics or commercial appeal, I was (and still am) just this guy typing away late at night.

Mark, thank you for the most remarkable novel I've read in a long time. Thank you for being here and I cannot wait for book two.

Deb

Hey Deb, thanks for liking it!

Mark,

I really enjoyed discovering who the builders were throughout the first part of your book. Are you planning on incorporating any back story in future books which would shed some light on what happened to our friends?

-Seth

Hi Seth - The trilogy is written so there's no planning about it (not that there ever was); it's done! And yes, there's considerably more light shed on the Builders. In fact for King of Thorns I suggested (slightly tongue in cheek) the tag line 'His past is your future, and it's stranger than both of your imaginings!' ... which they actually seemed to like. So we'll see!

hello Mark,
First let me congratulate you for your wonderful first book, I expect the others will be even better, for I'm definitely reading them once they come out:)

now for my questions... and yes it isn't just one...I was planning to fill my review with speculations but that won't be necessary now ;)

1) I've read your answer to Tad above, and I need you to elaborate, Jorg is not exactly the lovable kind of character, in fact I found a hard time likung any of the characters -that's probably what dropped that star from my rating -but it didn't prevent me from being hooked since page one - hopefully not with a hook-briar, that would be painful-
so, how much of it was intentional... did you want the reader to root for Jorg or to wish for the good guys to come and defeat him? (I was torn myself, you see!)

2) throughout the read It gave me the feel of reading a japanese manga I read years ago by the Name of (Berserk) are you familiar with it?... it's not the same story, but the feel I got from "prince of thorns" is similar as if they where in the same world?

3)my other question is connected to the one before... the world, it felt like the middle ages, but with real magicians and ghosts but no one was burning witches, they were persecuting heathens, well some of them...
it can't be high fantasy for there are many real places and real people "Plato!" I was trying to pinpoint where and when the plot took place but I can't figure it out, because Nietzsche and can openers can't be middle ages...and the Builders sounded like the Romans to me, they are the first to build roads after all


I know those weren't exactly questions, and I hope my limited vocabulary helped me express my thoughts, I have a few more.. but I thing I should give others the opportunity to ask their questions.

-Jasmine

Hi Jasmine - glad you liked the book! Answers below.

1) I never really thought about it in terms of whether I wanted the reader to root for or against Jorg. I decided to do my best to write a book about a person (admittedly an extreme one), rather than a hero/antihero/villain. I only hoped that he would prove interesting and that at the end of his story the reader (& me) would be left with questions, doubts, mixed feelings ... things to think about to which each would find their own different answers.

2)I've not read any manga - in fact I'm far from sure what's manga and what's anime ... I did see Howl's Moving Castle once if that helps :)

3)Heh - well initially you could be forgiven for thinking the Builders might be Romans, but once you've encountered the computerised AI in the vault containing nuclear and chemical weapons ... I think it's safe to assume they're us a few decades from now. Which would put the action a thousand years or so after a devastating nuclear war...

Hope the answers were illuminating.

Mark wrote: "Hi Jasmine - glad you liked the book! Answers below.
..."

Thanks Mark...that's very interesting...I mean your answer for the third question...it feels like a spoiler to me, a writer shouldn't do that in my opinion.. when I read the part with AI asking for password I actually laughed about it, thinking of the Flintstones using a Dinosaur as a lawnmower, you know what I mean? as if the builders used real ghosts to guard the door, so I probably misunderstood....

God...now i want to read the next book even more...

God...now i want to read the next book even more...

..."

Mission accomplished then! :)

Thanks for the questions.

Jasmine wrote: "Mark wrote: "Hi Jasmine - glad you liked the book! Answers below.
..."

Thanks Mark...that's very interesting...I mean your answer for the third question...it feels like a spoiler to me, a writer s..."

One would assume you've read the book to be in this thread. Expect spoilers.

I changed the thread title to warn unsuspecting readers of spoilers. Fore-warned is fore-armed or something like that.

Sandra aka Sleo wrote: "Jasmine wrote: "Mark wrote: "Hi Jasmine - glad you liked the book! Answers below.
..."

Thanks Mark...that's very interesting...I mean your answer for the third question...it feels like a spoiler t..."

did you read the book Sandra? because if you did and you read the exchange me and Mark had you'd understand that I meant spoilers for the next books of the trilogy...not this one, and considering they are not out yet...and the fact that "King of Thorns" doesn't even have a cover... that means I was talking about information only the author knows and he chose to share it with us...

Jasmine wrote: that means I was talking about information only the author knows and he chose to share it with us

I opted to ignore the entire point because it didn't seem worth raising the temperature over. However, since that seems to have happened anyway ... I don't feel I said anything that isn't explicitly in the text or very easily deduced from it - I offered only conclusions that other readers had offered to me. There's nothing of book 2 or 3 in what I said.

Question for you, Mark.

On p. 114 of the edition I read (see my spoilery comments to my status update here: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...), you mentioned three names, of which I only tracked down one of the philosophers mentioned(view spoiler)[, and I'm not entirely sure if I found the person in Popper (hide spoiler)].

Are the other two mentioned therein (view spoiler)[(Xiang and Russell) (hide spoiler)] fictional philosophers, or real-world ones?

Thanks in advance,

Jon

Jon wrote: "Question for you, Mark.

..."

well I admit it's an interesting theory but to me it felt like an alternate reality..like Stephen king's Dark Tower series/, for example, the Pope is female?

but now that i think about your theory Jon I find it more and more acceptable, as if it's the author's reaction to today's architecture "big glass boxes lacking imagination" except the ones he mentions are made of "stone" maybe?

I'm pretending that the "author" is not here reading my words..I really like to speculate :D

Jasmine wrote: "Jon wrote: "as if it's the author's reaction to today's architecture "big glass boxes lacking imagination" except the ones he mentions are made of "stone" maybe?"

I forgot to note in my status updates about the female pope. I wasn't near a computer at the time, so it passed out of my short-term memory.

I briefly thought it might be an alternate history, but by the end of the book I was convinced otherwise.

The first inkling I had of the connection appeared on page 98(view spoiler)[, specifically the reference of the walls that looked poured and woven through with steel, which I equated with our own common ordinary reinforced concrete, something the Romans also invented but we took to the heights (and depths) (hide spoiler)].

For a real mind-bending look at where/how the Catholic church survives (and evolves) after a holocaust, I highly recommend A Canticle for Leibowitz.

Jon wrote: "Question for you, Mark.

On p. 114 of the edition I read (see my spoilery comments to my status update here: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...), you mentioned three names, of whi..."

Hey Jon. Chronologically they're:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper
& Xiang = made up 'post-now' one to indicate the passage of some modest period between now and the 'day of a thousand suns'

Well observed! Correct on the reinforced concrete too.

Cheers,
Mark

please Mark ...don't take what I said as an offense please, I didn't mean to imply that I was ignoring you or anything as someone pointed out for me, I was simply trying to say that it feel awkward discussing a book with it's author ...I haven't done that a lot. so please forgive me, I only meant it as a joke nothing more

Hi Mark, I was on your website and noticed what you do in your day job. Wow!!
What made you decide on a fantasy novel, or even writing any kind of fiction.
And what kind of reading do you do for your personal tastes
Deb

Jasmine wrote: "please Mark ...don't take what I said as an offense please, I didn't mean to imply that I was ignoring you or anything as someone pointed out for me, I was simply trying to say that it feel awkward..."

No offense taken - don't trouble yourself about it :)

Debbie wrote: "Hi Mark, I was on your website and noticed what you do in your day job. Wow!!
What made you decide on a fantasy novel, or even writing any kind of fiction.
And what kind of reading do you do for yo..."

Hi Debbie - I guess I've been a fantasy reader longer than I've been a scientist! Raised on Narnia and Lord of the Rings, and then a youth miss-spent on D&D and 1980's fantasy ... I had no chance really.

Actually I mostly stopped reading fantasy in the 90's but was dragged back in by GRRM and his Game of Thrones around 2002. I like to read good fantasy, some literary fiction, and modern classics. I'm keen on writers like William Golding, John Irving, Solzhenitsyn ... a fairly wide-spread reading net.

Good Morning, Mark. Thanks for volunteering to be tortured by our questions.

I have a question concerning your field of study (i.e., AI). Without having checked your author page (or web page) before starting to type (so I'm probably committing a faux pas right now), were you involved with the Watson project at IBM? I still have the three Jeopardy episodes from mid-Feb 2011 on my DVR. Amazing!

Jon wrote: "Good Morning, Mark. Thanks for volunteering to be tortured by our questions.

I have a question concerning your field of study (i.e., AI). Without having checked your author pa..."

Hi Jon - No is the short answer. The work behind the Jeopardy stuff is very interesting (closely allied to Google's research no doubt) about query satisfaction in large free-text databases, but not something I've been involved with. When you start to deal with natural language there's a whole new field of research to integrate. The work that I can shelter under the wide umbrella of AI runs from very mathematical Bayesian inference for classification and filtering to rather heuristic algorithms for image processing/image understanding. It's a very broad field!

Hi Mark, thanks for taking our questions.

I really liked the book. I'm still not sure I like Jorg, but I feel as though I understand him, and I definitely want to know what's next in his story. I also appreciate the little touches you added to the story (the rebar in the poured concrete walls, the confusion & loneliness of the AI in charge of the door, the idea that The Art of War is still the best book for those learning military tactics, and many more). Ok, I'm done gushing now.

I have a question about the weapon used to level Castle Red. As Jorg was reading A History of Gelleth, I was thinking that the weapons he was going to seek out would be chemical weapons (given the mention of neurotoxicolgy, carginogens and mutagens). I agreed with him that we would find poison, then I was surprised by a massive explosion.

Were the weapons that Jorg found chemical weapons (that used an explosion in their delivery), atomic bombs, or some weaponry I'm unfamiliar with? I'm unfamiliar with the physical appearance of most munitions, so the description of a sphere didn't ring any bells for me.

Hi Stacia - there were certainly chemical weapons in there, but Jorg picked out a nuke. Most fission and fusion weapons require an implosion trigger (of fissile material driven by chemical explosive, or of hydrogen isotopes driven by a fission reaction). A symetrical chamber is best for that. The external characteristics are driven by the requirements of delivery. And yes, there is a dull technical defense for how a fire can create a critical mass from the components of an H-bomb :)

Many thanks for liking the book!

Mark wrote: "The work that I can shelter under the wide umbrella of AI runs from very mathematical Bayesian inference for classification and filtering to rather heuristic algorithms for image processing/image understanding. It's a very broad field! "

Funny you should mention Bayesian inference ... I've been tortured for nearly two days by software vendors for legal hold process software and I've seen that concept flashed in several PowerPoints. Guess I should brush up my flabby math/logic muscles (the ones I let fall slack back in the late 80s when I left college behind for motherhood). :)

Hi Mark. Just finished it and I liked it. Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions! My question is, what is it about Katherine that attracts Jorg so much? Forbidden fruit? Her innocence? Its the one thing I found a bit off with the picture we're given of Jorg. The only moment they had together was in the kitchen, surely that's not enough for him to lose his head over her.

Hi Roshio - well I'd say the 1st and main thing that initially attracts Jorg to Katherine is her attractiveness :) We can add to the fact that Jorg is 14 and full of boy-juice the following observations: i) that Katherine's probably the first court-clean, expertly dressed and presented woman that he's seen since he started noticing women, ii) that she's very good looking iii) she has the self-assurance of nobility and is thus very different from females he's been encountering of late

All that sums up (at least for me) to a decent case for him being very interested in her. This isn't love, it isn't a mature and considered passion that's bound to lead to a lasting relationship founded on mutual respect ... it's lots of lust and a little obsession ... and it's early days :)

Mark wrote: "Hi Roshio - well I'd say the 1st and main thing that initially attracts Jorg to Katherine is her attractiveness :) We can add to the fact that Jorg is 14 and full of boy-juice the following observ..."

Ah Mark, you tease you
and it's early days :)

Mark wrote: "Hi Roshio - well I'd say the 1st and main thing that initially attracts Jorg to Katherine is her attractiveness :) We can add to the fact that Jorg is 14 and full of boy-juice the following observ..."

Lust and a little obsession. That I get. I thought it went deeper which was why I was like huh? cool I look forward to seeing how it all plays out. Thanks!

Mark,

I have another question for you in relation to the 'builder's steel' sword that Jorg uses. I'm curious exactly you imagined this sword to be fashioned out of? Do people in Jorg's time have to the ability to reforge steel from the time of the builders? Or did they remake a found piece of scrap into a sword?

-Seth

Seth wrote: "Mark,

I have another question for you in relation to the 'builder's steel' sword that Jorg uses. I'm curious exactly you imagined this sword to be fashioned out of? Do people in Jorg's time have ..."

Hi Seth, interesting question - my metallurgy is somewhat limited, but yes, I saw them reforging steel from various sources (such as rebar in concrete structures). In part because it takes a lower level of technological sophistication to reforge existing steel than to fabricate it from iron ore (i.e it's better quality steel than they can make) and in part because it's a link back to ancestors who could work all manner of wonders.

Mark wrote: "For me good writing is not about appealing to an audience - it's about capturing something you feel worthwhile & having fun doing it."

Mark,

I like your way of thinking. If the book is not written for yourself and about capturing your own imagination, then why write. :) I believe someone will always connect with you when you write this way. Thanks for answering questions for us all. :)

hi I'm back...So Mark I was reading your discussions here and still working on my "World Theory"
so if there is contemporary philosophers, concrete buildings and nuclear bombs, it's safe to say that this could be a post apocalyptic world(I'm still trying to figure out what kind of Apocalypse is it: world war, disease or alien attack?) what I don't get is how did certain things survived and others did not...if texts of old thinkers and new remained, shouldn't there be others (physics, electricity, computers, cellphones...etc) I believe one can manufacture a simple generator from a ninth grader's text book ..
there is also the fantastical element in this world, the dead, the necromancers, the witches and magicians
we can safely assume that what they did was truly supernatural...

so, to sum it up..I'm back to my original theory of an alternate reality,that crosses our world to some point...what would you say?

P.S: English is a second language..I hope I could explain my thoughts clearly..

Jasmine wrote: "hi I'm back...So Mark I was reading your discussions here and still working on my "World Theory"
so if there is contemporary philosophers, concrete buildings and nuclear bombs, it's safe to say tha..."

Hi Jasmine ... the last time I answered your questions you said "it feels like a spoiler to me, a writer shouldn't do that in my opinion.." - so now I'm really not sure how to reply...

Mark wrote: "Jasmine wrote: "hi I'm back...So Mark I was reading your discussions here and still working on my "World Theory"
so if there is contemporary philosophers, concrete buildings and nuclear bombs, it'..."

hehe..I thought you'd say that...thanks, I got the answer I needed :)

of course if anyone else wants to ask Jasmine's question/s I'm happy to reply in my default mode!

Mark wrote: "of course if anyone else wants to ask Jasmine's question/s I'm happy to reply in my default mode!"

now I'm curious... and I feel like I offended you again...
let's see.. I'll try to explain as well as my english allow...um...you answered my question by refusing to answer it-I'm probably not making any sense-your "not answering" my question told me that things will be explained somehow in the next book(s) and all I need to do is wait for them.
but your last comment tells me you just don't want to talk to me..which is understandable if I said something wrong...so I think I'll just shut up and wait for someone else to ask the question for me *sigh*

Mark, I'm not going to ask Jasmine's questions. But I do have a comment, BTW, I'm one of your fans that absolutely loved this book. As far as the landscape of the novel, it didn't feel post-apocalyptic to me or did it feel like earth but more like an "earth like" place. Plus I didn't put too much effort in to trying to figure out where Jorg was going because I felt sure that you'd take us there in the next novel. Which I'm waiting for anxiously. When does the next one come out.
deb

Debbie wrote: "Mark, I'm not going to ask Jasmine's questions. But I do have a comment, BTW, I'm one of your fans that absolutely loved this book. As far as the landscape of the novel, it didn't feel post-apocaly..."

Hi Debbie - King of Thorns is out next August & I expect the final book of the trilogy to appear August 2013.

I've seen a rough version of the cover for King of Thorns :)

I'm happy to answer Jasmine's questions or questions in a similar vein - I was just unsure how much Jasmine wanted to know. There are things that will become more clear in book 2 & 3, things that are in the text but I could highlight, and things that aren't in the text but were in my thinking when choices we made. My default position is to answer questions with any combination of these sources that I don't feel will spoil the enjoyment of a reader who has asked such a question.

you know... if someone was to ask me what the cover of the sequel, King of Thorns looks like ... I'd say:

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2...

Mark, it's fabulous and I can't wait to read it. I'm putting my request in right now to review it for RT like I did w/Prince of Thorns. I know it will be just as good as the first one.

Deb

Mark wrote: "you know... if someone was to ask me what the cover of the sequel, King of Thorns looks like ... I'd say:

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2..."

wooow...it gave me goosebumps..and it's coming in August...cool, it will be my birthday present to me :)

Mark wrote: "you know... if someone was to ask me what the cover of the sequel, King of Thorns looks like ... I'd say:

http://mark---lawrence.blogspot.com/2..."

excellent cover. I am particularly fascinated as to what animal's skull that is...;)

I could tell you ... but maybe you'd rather find out between the covers.

*sigh*, that is true. must be so exciting being an author, with all your secrets! I look forward to finding them all out.

Thank you very much, Mark, for participating. Hope you have good holidays.