English Translations of Scandinavian/Nordic Mysteries & Thrillers discussion

What started in the 1930's as sub-genre of the predominately American style of Hardboiled Crime writing has grown in world wide popularity.
Here's a place a talk about your favorite Noir books and Authors.

Here's a great article by Otto Penzler (who is considered by most the expert on the subject) about Noir fiction.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/otto-pe...

What a good article. I tried finding a definition of noir in a dictionary and couldn't. I'm glad for the definition. Not many books are noir.

While I won't argue with Mr. Penzler's analysis, I do think that most people would consider the works of Raymond Chandler, Dashiell Hammett, and company as Noir. (but then maybe those people are wrong)

Interesting thread! I thought I'd google a bit, and came up with this link http://noirfiction.info/what.html
A few bits from the article"

Jim Thompson, Cornell Woolrich, and David Goodis are not part of the private eye tradition of Carroll John Daly, Dashiell Hammett, and Raymond Chandler. They are instead, associated more with James M. Cain and W.R. Burnett, a type of crime story where the protagonist is usually not a detective, a type of fiction that, back in the early 1980's, was largely ignored by American mystery scholars, who were focusing more on detective fiction.

and from the same article:

Noir fiction, in America, can be defined as a sub-genre of the Hardboiled School. In this sub-genre, the protagonist is usually not a detective, but instead either a victim, a suspect, or a perpetrator. He is someone tied directly to the crime, not an outsider called to solve or fix the situation. Other common characteristics of this sub-genre are the emphasis on sexual relationships and the use of sex to advance the plot and the self-destructive qualities of the lead characters. This type of fiction also has the lean, direct writing style and the gritty realism commonly associated with hardboiled fiction.

Good article. Think Dave has named the group perfectly. I read a lot of Ian Rankin, Peter James, Peter Robinson, Baldacci, Donna Leon, J Patterson, Patricia Cornwall, Kathy Reichs, Greg Iles......so here is the group for those discussions plus!

Val Mc Dermid's " A Place of Execution" comes to mind and someone had mentioned "A Small Death In Lisbon."
Could not put them down.

" Folly " by Laurie King. I found this to be her best book. Noir?

So does Noir have to be Philip Marlowe types.?

Just watched "Call Northside 777" with James Stewart and called a noir film.

Any parameters?

Now that is a category .....Film Noir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir

Reading Fleshmarket Close and An Affair to Remember (thanks James)

Bet you enjoy Rebus....
Which An Affair to Remember?

http://italophiles.com/gialli_mysteri...

Great reference for those liking Italian drama, books and screen.

Sharon wrote: "http://italophiles.com/gialli_mysteri...

Great reference for those liking Italian drama, books and screen."

Just had a look and bar Camilleri - they all seem to be non Italians setting their novels in Italy. Donna Leon is probably the best known and as an example she doesn't even allow her novels to be translated into Italian....so how can we really trust its authenticity or call it Italian Noir??

http://italophiles.com/writers_today.htm

Quite a mixture really.

Sharon wrote: "Bet you enjoy Rebus....
Which An Affair to Remember?" Guess 2:00a.m. is a bad time to remember. It is End of the Affair by Graham Greene. James Thompson said it was a book that was special to him. I had never read any Graham Green before. Nor have I read any Ian Rankin. Big treat time!!
Film Noir could be interesting to say the least but are we getting ahead of ourselves?

Also thank you for the Italian links!

Both are fabulous books, in my opinion. There are several books though with the same name, so did not want to assume. GG is a goodread. There is a very old film made of it too, most entertaining.

I noticed that Ian Rankin's book has two different names.
I guess I was thinking of the wonderful old movie "Affair To Remember" with Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr I believe.

IAN RANKIN
Inspector Rebus
1. Knots and Crosses (1987)
2. Hide and Seek (1990)
3. Tooth and Nail (1992) aka Wolfman
4. Strip Jack (1992)
5. The Black Book (1993)
6. Mortal Causes (1994)
7. Let It Bleed (1995)
8. Black and Blue (1997)
9. The Hanging Garden (1998)
10. Dead Souls (1999)
11. Set in Darkness (2000)
12. The Falls (2001)
13. Resurrection Men (2002)
14. A Question of Blood (2003)
15. Fleshmarket Close (2004) aka Fleshmarket Alley
16. The Naming Of The Dead (2006)
17. Exit Music (2007)


Fox series:
The  Complaints
The Impossible Dead 2012


A Good Hanging: And Other Stories (1992)
Death Is Not the End (1998)
Rebus: The Early Years (omnibus) (1999)
Rebus: The St Leonard's Years (omnibus) (2001)
Three Great Novels: Strip Jack / The Black Book / Mortal Causes (omnibus) (2001)
Rebus: The Lost Years (omnibus) (2003)
Capital Crimes (omnibus) (2004)

 Novels
The Flood (1986)
Watchman (1988)
Westwind (1990) Cannot find!
Doors Open (2008)
The Complaints (2009)
Crimespotting 2009
A Cool Head

If you want to read a perfect and defining example of true noir I highly recommend James M. Cain's novella "The Postman Always Rings Twice". It's only about 100 pages, I read it in one sitting over my morning coffee. Absolutely brilliant!

Never read but love both film versions so added this to my TBR list. Thanks Dave for the tip.

Did anyone ever solve the black dahlia murder????? Or come close??
Agreed on "The Postman Always Rings Twice." John Garfield!. Will look for the novella.
Thanks Sharon for the Rankin list.

There are SO MANY wonderful Graham Greene books (A couple bad ones), but he was such a prolific writer that if you get the Greene bug, it can keep you occupied for a long time.

Not sure if these qualify as Noir despite the title, but who cares....this is crime drama set in Nazi era Germany and they are a great read - first 3 novels in one by Philip Kerr

James wrote: "There are SO MANY wonderful Graham Greene books (A couple bad ones), but he was such a prolific writer that if you get the Greene bug, it can keep you occupied for a long time."

Absolutely!

Ian wrote: "Not sure if these qualify as Noir despite the title, but who cares....this is crime drama set in Nazi era Germany and they are a great read - first 3 novels in one [bookcover:Berlin Noir: March Vio..."

Ian wrote: "Not sure if these qualify as Noir despite the title, but who cares....this is crime drama set in Nazi era Germany and they are a great read - first 3 novels in one [bookcover:Berlin Noir: March Vio..."

Very interesting, born in Edinburgh and he sure has a lot of books out! Thanks for the tip.

For anyone wanting to read a truly amazing book get yourself Alone in Berlin, Hans Fallada...finally translated in to English and a read you will never forget. Jeder stirbt fur sich allein...original title.

Really recommend this and would be so happy to hear some discussion on it. My husband read the German and I read the English and we were very happy to have each other to discuss it with as it really is very complex and disturbing but rewarding too in how powerful the human spirit can be. The English is translated by Michael Hofmann.

I haven't managed to read any further in the series yet, but I did enjoy those first three Philip Kerr books. Obviously the Bernie Gunther character is a take on Chandler's Philip Marlowe, but the setting made for good reading.

Has anyone read any John Le Carré? I realize that's more "spy novel" than crime but I've been interested reading something by him.

Ah but they read with the same tension and drama... Read a few over the years.
The Spy Who Came in from the Cold
Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy
The Tailor of Panama
The Constant Gardener
I also loved the films of these and very keen to catch the just released TTSS. Should be fab with excellent cast.
Have his Absolute Friends and a G Greene Ministry of Fear on my TBR stack and ashamed to say cannot seem to get into either......

Sometimes I feel like I'm going to need to live to be about a thousand years old just to read all the books I'm interested in.

That's cuz you do. I guess I've read more than 5000 books and haven't even made a dent in what I'd like to read.

Ha. Ha. Know what you mean. My TBR stack is now silly then eBooks, iBooks and Kindle happened too! Reason I started making lists for myself, it was all getting too complicated following so many writers and trying to keep pace with their output plus attempting to read other books as well to maintain some balance. Now, Goodreads and so many new tips.........

Really recommend Alone in Berlin though...totally unique. Google it...

Sharon wrote: "Really recommend Alone in Berlin though...totally unique..."

I've added to my TBR list, apparently it is also released as Every Man Dies Alone

I guess Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy seems like a good place to start with John Le Carré.

I humbly recommend THE SPY(or is it MAN) WHO CAME IN FROM THE COLD to start with Lé Carre. TINKER is a great book too, but the former is an early classic and one of my all-time favorite thrillers.

The Constant Gardener was also a great read...actually put the four from my earlier post in the same bag both in terms of reading and viewing....

James, I followed your recommendation before I actually saw it ;)
After reading reviews here, I downloaded The Spy Who... on my Kindle earlier tonight and am already 50% in. Excellent so far!

Also thanks Sharon for the earlier recommendations!
As much as I am enjoying this one, I'm sure it'll be the first of many le Carre books I'll read!

I decided to start from the beginning with Le Carré, so I've read the first few. Of course, years ago I read The Spy Who Came in from the Cold. In fact, it's past time for a reread. Sometimes I wish I wasn't compelled to read series in order. It isn't always necessary.

If you haven't seen the Alec Guiness Le Carré films, you must. Guiness is Smiley. :) And Patrick Stewart as Karla is priceless. Both actors lack of personal ego in these roles work wonders.

Dave wrote: "Sometimes I feel like I'm going to need to live to be about a thousand years old just to read all the books I'm interested in."

Me too!

Cateline wrote: "I decided to start from the beginning with Le Carré, so I've read the first few. Of course, years ago I read The Spy Who Came in from the Cold. In fact, it's past time for a reread. Sometimes I ..."

Agree with you....
There is a lot of hype in the press right now about the remake of TTSS and the cast looks great too. Keen to see it........

Did you see where Granham Greene's Brigton Rock has been released with Leonardo De Caprio. Setting in the 60's now. Purists may be horrified. Released in Aug 2011. anyone seen it?

No but will certainly try and go see it when it gets to Holland.

I've not heard of the Brighton Rock remake with Leonardo deCaprio. The latest remake was last year and stars Sam Reilly.

I think Leo is in the remake of The Great Gatsby. (I reckon he'll be great as Gatsby).

Cateline wrote: "I decided to start from the beginning with Le Carré, so I've read the first few. Of course, years ago I read The Spy Who Came in from the Cold. In fact, it's past time for a reread. Sometimes I ..."

I'm generally the same way with wanting to start from the beginning, especially with most Nordic Crime since so much of it is continuing character development. After reading reviews of the first two Le Carre' books though, I decided I might be more inclined to get into him if I started with The Spy Who Came in From the Cold and went from there.

I'll definitely check out the Alec Guiness Le Carré films as soon as I've read a few more of the books.

So glad to have found this forum! I want to mention the film Out of the Past with Robert Mitchum. Definitely qualifies as noir film, not sure if it was based on a book. It's the spare writing in noir fiction (crime or not) that gets me. I don't like a lot of descriptive unnecessary fluff. Usually, the darker the better. Agreed about the Postman Always Rings Twice, btw.

I've not seen Out of the Past, but one of my all time favorite movies is Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter (1955). Another film noir classic.
He also played Phillip Marlowe in the film adaptations of Raymond Chandler's The Big Sleep and Farewell My Lovely.

Oh, and I finished reading The Spy Who Came In From The Cold earlier. In a word, phenomenal! Think I'm going stick with le Carre' for a while now and start the Karla Trilogy next.

Now those were films to remember and thank goodness for TCM and DVDs.

No, I didn't know that. I'm going to make it a point to see the film. A problem for me, after 13 years here, is that I'm almost completely out of touch with current American culture and don't know when, for instance, cool movies are made. My English language stopped growing then too. Don't get currrent expressions and references a lot of the time.

I liked all those films too. And I've been an avid lé Carre fan since I was a kid. It would be fun to sit and read them all again in order.

James wrote: "No, I didn't know that. I'm going to make it a point to see the film. A problem for me, after 13 years here, is that I'm almost completely out of touch with current American culture and don't know ..."

I truly relate to that. After 28+ years in Holland, I too have "issues"! This current used word really comes up a lot and perplexes me...
Have loved Film Noir forever and this good old wiki gives lots of good info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir

I know this is a Scandinavian forum, but this discussion re The Spy who Came in from the Cold reminded me of Funeral in Berlin and the Ipcress File, both by Len Deighton, a British author. Anyone read these or other works by him? I read these two when I was young and then later found his linked trilogies, which were wonderful.