Phantom of the Opera discussion

The Phantom & Christine,what are your thoughts on the relationship they had? Do you think Erik truly loved her? Or was it just an obession? Do you think they could have found some kind of happiness? Were they a better couple than her and Raoul?

My daughter and I had this discussion, Sandi. She's a HUGE Phantom fan.

My take is that he had been alone so long, and was so scarred on the inside as well as the outside, that he had become obsessed with her. I love him, adore him, my heart breaks for him... but I'm not sure they could have had a healthy relationship.

Although, we all know that sometimes a woman, the right woman, can heal any wounds.

I totally agree,as much as I love Erik for all his faults he also had a heart..setting Christine free..you know the saying."if you set something free and it comes back its yours..if not it never was..my heart breaks for him..but it never would have worked. Its why I like the sequels..so he finds his own happiness.

It turns out she did comes back, didn't she? :) Even if it does not last long...

Artemis wrote: "It turns out she did comes back, didn't she? :) Even if it does not last long..."

True...sad but true:(

I've thought about this one a LOT! I think he really did love Christine, but having gone unloved all his life he really didn't know how to express it in a healthy way. And since he considered her the one good thing that had ever happened to him, he would have been very obsessive and territorial over her. He didn't learn the true meaning of love until that moment in the lair when he chose to give her up. As much as it hurts to think of it, it still makes me proud to see how he'd grown from thinking of himself to doing what was best for her.

And as for dear Erik finally finding happiness...that's what sequels are for! ;)

Very well thought out and put Gemma!I totally agree with you...for someone like him that took alot to let her go:(

Has anybody wonder about what'll happen if Christine chose neither? I think it'll be quite interesting to see how she would fare alone, without the both of them. As much as I love the song Devil Take the Hindmost, I really felt like Erik and Raoul were thinking of her as a prize, not a person.

Poor Erik. he had never know love of any kind. No mother love and no father at all. He had no idea what love was, but always knew he wanted it fiercely. When Christine came along he was ripe for it. Had any other girl been in the same position (his student) I think the result would have been the same.
That said, I have always been a believer that his exoerience with Christine awakened his need to be loved. But she was not the right one. Immature and naive, she would have had trouble accepting him. After all,she said he "has to kill 1000 men."
It would take a woman of maturity and compassion to accept him , not only his disfigurement, but also his past. Christine was a child still. Maybe had she not been so young, or had something, time perhaps, intervened, and they met later, she might have had the maturity by then to accept him.

Anne, you made me fall in love with him all over again. *sigh*

Artemis wrote: "Has anybody wonder about what'll happen if Christine chose neither? I think it'll be quite interesting to see how she would fare alone, without the both of them. As much as I love the song Devil Ta..."

What a good question Artemis! Hmmm..maybe a different kind of sequel for sure....be interesting:)

Anne wrote: "Poor Erik. he had never know love of any kind. No mother love and no father at all. He had no idea what love was, but always knew he wanted it fiercely. When Christine came along he was ripe for it..."

Your so right about Christine Anne,maybe things would have turned out differently if she was more mature,but I guess thats not how the author intended it to be:( So how did you portray the woman in your book for Erik Anne? Is she all that Christine is not?

Pretty much so. My Erik is like the movie, age 35, and the woman is 25, plenty mature enough to understand him.

Anne wrote: "Pretty much so. My Erik is like the movie, age 35, and the woman is 25, plenty mature enough to understand him."

That certainly sounds more "realistic"

The woman? I take it that she is someone else... Not Christine?

She sure accepted Erik after 10 years of seperation... And secrets. ;)

Excellently put as always, Anne. Erik had enough to work through in the first place; it would have been so much worse if he had to wait for Christine to grow up at the same time. I think the equation goes something like this:

Erik's past hurts/emotional baggage + Christine's immaturity/emotional baggage = catastrophe

It would be interesting to see how the "neither Erik nor Raoul" option would have played out...

Whoaaaa, new topic while I was gone!

But do I really need to post my opinion? I think everybody knows what it is. 3

Ah, come on, Thalia, go ahead!

I would, but it's late, and I have school in the morning, and if I start now, I'll probably be sobbing until three in the morning or so. x)

Possibly tomorrow! <3

Thalia wrote: "Whoaaaa, new topic while I was gone!

But do I really need to post my opinion? I think everybody knows what it is. 3"

Was wondering where you were Thalia! :)

Sobbing? I'll prolly be wailing… x) we could throw a Phantom crying party… do you have a lot of tissue paper?

Hahha, Sandi, I was in California on vacation. (:

Artemis, I'm sure I can stock up on Kleenex! And then we really will have a party. <3

Yeah! I mean... *sob*

It was more of a creeper/lover/father relationship than a I-love-you-more-than-your-voice type of thing like she had with Raoul who didn't only love her for her voice.

Raoul seemed to love her only because she had become famous. In both book and movie there's not much evidence to support that Raoul really loved her in any huge way.

Thalia wrote: "Raoul seemed to love her only because she had become famous. In both book and movie there's not much evidence to support that Raoul really loved her in any huge way."

You have some good points there Thalia..never thought of it that way..makes sense.

Catherine wrote: "It was more of a creeper/lover/father relationship than a I-love-you-more-than-your-voice type of thing like she had with Raoul who didn't only love her for her voice."

I kinda think they both loved her,for right and wrong reasons..while I love Erik I dont think he would have been the best choice..but I dont think Raoul was either.

I think Raoul's love for Christine was a brotherly sort but Erik's was much, much different and kinda hard to understand. Perhaps it was her voice and fame.

Catherine wrote: "I think Raoul's love for Christine was a brotherly sort but Erik's was much, much different and kinda hard to understand. Perhaps it was her voice and fame."

I think your right Catherine..was one better than the other? I think they were both so in love with her for totaly different reasons..some good & not so good.

What was Raoul's bad reasons for loving Christine?

In Phantom's defense, he loved Christine before she was famous. Raoul only bothered to look in direction when she was such a success in on stage. And then Raoul just wanted to play hero and save Christine from someone Raoul couldn't understand.

*slams head into wall*

I wonder if Christine had chosen Erik over Raoul, how would Love Never Dies be acted out and performed?

Thalia wrote: "Raoul seemed to love her only because she had become famous. In both book and movie there's not much evidence to support that Raoul really loved her in any huge way."

I wouldn't really put it that way...I don't think he would have noticed her if she hadn't been singing, but I do think he loved her, or at least, he loved being her hero. I don't think he knew her well enough after years of separation to really love her.


Catherine wrote: "I wonder if Christine had chosen Erik over Raoul, how would Love Never Dies be acted out and performed?"

Do you mean if Christine chose Erik in the lair--really chose Erik--and LND was Raoul trying to get her back? That might be interesting...

Hey, how about we write something like a RP which every one adds their own ideas to it then we can have a cooler version of Love Never Dies....how about it???

I need someone with an answer to my next question. Is Love Never Dies an appropriate play/ book as in not too many swearwords or any inappropriate content?

Emily wrote: "I need someone with an answer to my next question. Is Love Never Dies an appropriate play/ book as in not too many swearwords or any inappropriate content?"

I cant help you there Emily I havent seen it :(

Well if you could find out that would be highly apprecitaed. If you happen to find anything out please let me know.

It depends on what you'd call "inappropriate." If I remember correctly, there's no more swearing in LND than in POTO, and as far as content... (spoiler alert)




Meg is a stripper/prostitute, Christine and Erik had a one-night stand, Raoul is a drunken wife-beater, and...that's about it.

Oh. thanks. Is there a way to clean flick it?

I'm not sure...

I think that Erik did truly love her but Christine loved him in a different way. She thought he was the spirit of her father and so it wouldn't really work...

Emily, Christine and Phantom don't actually have the one night stand IN the play. (view spoiler)[It had happened ten years prior and all they do is sing/remember it in the play. (hide spoiler)] As for the rest, it's VERY vague (I didn't see Meg as a prostitute until the VERY end when she says this one line--just as a fun circus girl), and Raoul is a drunk, but I don't think he ever beat Christine.

Lois wrote: "I think that Erik did truly love her but Christine loved him in a different way. She thought he was the spirit of her father and so it wouldn't really work..."

Well, yes, actually sometimes I can understand Christine not being able to understand Phantom because she's so young, and I'd like to think that perhaps Christine could say "I love you as a father" to Phantom or something like that, instead of running away from him.

I don't think Erik truly loves Christine until the end of the orignal novel, when he lets her go with Raoul. It is at this point he has matured as a character to see that love is not about ownership or controlling the other person's every move. It is not about threats and intimidation.

As for Christine, she doesn't have the emotional maturity to love the Phantom or really understand him. Her emotions are clouded by memories of her father.

I agree with you on your thoughts on both Erik and Christine, Ann. It was doomed from the start:( And I think Erik also deserves someone better..

Emily wrote: "I need someone with an answer to my next question. Is Love Never Dies an appropriate play/ book as in not too many swearwords or any inappropriate content?"

it says 1 rude word

I've been slowly leaning towards that "doomed" viewpoint myself, Ann. Much as I would love it for the E/C relationship to work, it's just not possible. Outside of fiction, that is. ;)

It seems to me that Erik was only interested in controlling Christine's love as opposed to actually loving her, so I can't blame her for trying to get away from him. And while I think she ought to show more understanding to him once in a while, it's hard to show it. He can't help what he became, but his actions towards her were, let's face it, abusive. It's the only treatment he'd ever known, so why wouldn't he treat someone else the same way?

He just wanted to be loved, but the world had turned him into something terrible! Dear Lord, it's tragic no matter how you look at it!

I believe that Christine could have accepted him for who he was. I think he truly loved her, but he didn't know how to show it or say it. I think she loved him too. I don't know what would have happened but if she had chosen him, but I'm sure it would have been good.

For Erik, Christine was beautiful young girl with a beautiful voice. She was so pure in his dark world and that sort of drew him more than anything. If he had loved her, he WOULD NOT have kidnapped her, tried to kill her lover, and hypnotised and manipulated her.
He loved her voice and her looks, while Raoul really knew her.

Thalia wrote: "In Phantom's defense, he loved Christine before she was famous. Raoul only bothered to look in direction when she was such a success in on stage. And then Raoul just wanted to play hero and save Ch..."
AGREE SO MUCH! Although, I also do agree that maturity comes into play, because not only was Erik not ready for Christine's immaturity, Christine wasn't ready for Erik's looks, past, and personality.