Robert E. Howard Readers discussion

John flagged up that Dark Horse are releasing the first part of a graphic version of Robert E. Howard's Conan story, The Phoenix on the Sword in January. Rather than the usual poll to decide the next Group Read, I'm suggesting that we read the original Howard story to go alongside that release. I know we won't all read the graphic version, but it's another area for discussion for those that do.

I know we've just finished a Kull story, but it might also be fun to read and compare By this Axe I Rule in January, too, as this was the first version of the story that Howard later adapted as a Conan tale.

If enough people really object, I'll put it up for polling, otherwise I'll queue this up for January.

No objections, so this is the January 2012 Group Read. You can read The Phoenix on the Sword in many REH collections, including:
Conan the Usurper
The Complete Chronicles of Conan: Centenary Edition and
Conan the Barbarian: The Stories that Inspired the Movie.

It's also available to read online here.

What did you think of this story ? I have just re-read it for the first time. Interesting the second time. Toth-Amon, Ascalante etc

King Conan in this story is the most heroic, mature one i have read of Conan so far. The younger thief, reaver,pirate Conan is a rogue that doesnt care for anyone.

He is quite the statesman. I first read this as a Kull story in the Lancer edition of King Kull. I thought it fit him better.

Jim wrote: "He is quite the statesman. I first read this as a Kull story in the Lancer edition of King Kull. I thought it fit him better."

This story was the first REH story and Conan story i ever read. I got complete conan collection to try REH. I didnt know who REH was and didnt know what to expect of Conan. This second time i have read 100-200 stories of REH. I had almost forgotten Conan was the quite statesman as you said.

Most of the stories i like he is son of a gun that would kill,sacrifice anyone for his gain. Except the rare Belit story.

I, too, preferred the original Kull story, By This Axe I Rule!. While I could see Kull seeking to spare the poet in battle, somehow that didn't really sit right with Conan's character, but Phoenix is still a cracking tale.

Despite the reuse of the basic plot, REH didn't simply change names, he did re-write the story. Thoth Amon is an interesting addition, introducing a supernatural element that wasn't present in Kull. There's also some interesting background information on Stygian politics and Mitraism.

Michael wrote: "I, too, preferred the original Kull story, By This Axe I Rule!. While I could see Kull seeking to spare the poet in battle, somehow that didn't really sit right with Conan's character, but Phoenix ..."

Sit right with Conan character ? I dont get that part because Conan have been many different versions of him. I was reading Tower of Elephant where young theif Conan was taking verbal abuse more adult, bloody Conan would never take.

Older King Conan is not the same Conan as the younger barbarian he was. I mean the idea of Conan caring for the lives of his subjects is almost comical if you see King Conan the same exact character as pirate,soldier Conan. Same in the story im reading now in Scarlet Citadel. Where REH wrote how surprised it sneaked up on Conan the fact he cared for the lives of his people as king. Conan was thinking he wouldnt care if it was in his earlier life.

It's not that Conan would care for the lives of his subjects that didn't quite sit right with me, it's that when a man he seemingly barely knows, certainly not a great friend, attacks him with a knife in the middle of a bloody battle against overwhelming odds, I don't think it characteristic that Conan would hesitate to split his skull.

Kull is presented as more thoughtful than Conan and in By This Axe I Rule!, there is more mulling over the character of the poet, and of his relationship to the people and the backlash against their new barbarian king. So, when the same scene is presented in the Kull story, it is both in keeping with his character and with the Valusian milieu that REH has created.

As the Kull stories hadn't sold particularly well in Howard's lifetime, I guess he reckoned his audience wanted less philosophising and more action, which you get with The Phoenix on the Sword.

Michael wrote: "It's not that Conan would care for the lives of his subjects that didn't quite sit right with me, it's that when a man he seemingly barely knows, certainly not a great friend, attacks him with a kn..."

Hey dont spoil Kull for me :D

Ah i see what you mean, i thought that was arrogant of Conan as expected of a king. He did say something about the poet fame outliving his earlier in the story. He might have respect the poets popularity a bit too much.

Sorry - I should have said SPOILERS! But, it is basically the same story :-)

Just as well I didn't say what image I particularly like at the end of Axe that REH edited out of Phoenix!

Listening to this right now. The audiobook is awesome–even better than when I read it myself. Robert's imagry is so powerful.

Keith wrote: "Listening to this right now. The audiobook is awesome–even better than when I read it myself. Robert's imagry is so powerful."

You should read the Kull story, By This Axe I Rule! if you can. As noted above, it's basically the same story, but a more thoughtful one. Be interesting to see which version you prefer.

I've never read any of the Kull stories. I've read about ten Conan stories and some of REH's other works.

I'll keep Kull and that specific story on my radar.

I thought this was an excellent story and a great introduction to Conan and his world. If you get the collection The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian there is also a draft copy of the story that expands somewhat on the earlier parts of the story and gives additional depth to the character.

I haven't read the original Kull story, but I'm going to have to look it up.

The draft version does give a lot of additional depth. The Kull story is definitely more thoughtful and less weird - and deals with a marital issue, which Kull seemed to often be dealing with. Kull often seemed fighting against laws that hemmed in his kingship, while this never seemed to bother Conan. Of course, Valusia was far more ancient than Aquilonia and had more time to build up such an overwhelming body of laws and traditions.

Vincent wrote: "The draft version does give a lot of additional depth. The Kull story is definitely more thoughtful and less weird - and deals with a marital issue, which Kull seemed to often be dealing with. Kull..."

Very well said, my friend! Though I enjoy TPotS, "By this Axe I Rule" is far better! It's, IMO, one of the best Kull's tales and as good as "The God in he the Bowl", where young Conan - just like Kull did in BTAIR - shows the difference between law and justice!

Kull's constant struggles with laws limiting who marries whom makes me wonder if REH was commenting on laws limiting interracial marriages at the time.

Vincent wrote: "Kull's constant struggles with laws limiting who marries whom makes me wonder if REH was commenting on laws limiting interracial marriages at the time."

Not sure, since REH was a racist, but your idea is an interesting one.