The Mote in God's Eye discussion

Question to all who have read this book...
I am looking to get into another trilogy or series and I have noticed "The Mote in God's Eye" appears on many fave lists. However, the second and third book have horrible reviews. Should I read the first one only and not bother with the rest?

The Mote in God's Eye was fantastic. The Gripping Hand was nothing more than bearable. I wouldn't bother with it, no. And it really isn't a series in a traditional sense - it's more of a follow up book because the first is so popular. I didn't even realize there was a third.

If you haven't read Niven and Pournelle co-written stuff, I'd suggest there's a natural informal set there you can enjoy. Obviously not an ongoing story line, but three incredible books: Mote, Footfall, and Lucifer's Hammer. Lucifer's Hammer and Mote are two of my favorite's of all time and Footfall is great too.

Though The Gripping Hand is the lesser of the two, it is certainly not "horrible." I do recommend reading both.

And concur emphatically with Zac on "Lucifer's Hammer". Younger readers may not get a lot of the dated elements, but the story concept is far-reaching.

Certainly, TMIGE is worth your time. Can't comment on the follow ups.

Thanks everyone. Yes, I have read Lucifer's Hammer already - it was great.

The Mote In God's Eye is well worth reading...once.
I remember Lucifer's Hammer as being entertaining, but pretty standard catastrophic-end-of-civilization fare.
I don't think I made it all the way through The Gripping Hand, so it was probably pretty dreadful.

I've read "Mote" and "Gripping Hand" and enjoyed both quite a bit. I didn't realize there was a third book, however.

Excellent space opera that rises to another level thanks to the creation of the Moties. A brilliantly realized alien race.

I read The Mote in G-d's Eye many years ago. From what I recall, it was a great book.

A long time ago, but i loved the Mote. I read the Moat around Murchenson's Eye one a few years later. Worth reading, i can say, but I remember far more of the first.
Loved Footfall as well, and Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers (don't bother with the 3rd one), and The Legacy of Heorot.

Larry Niven's wrote many incredible stories. Ringworld was always my favorite.

The Mote in God's Eye is one of the best SF books ever written. The Gripping Hand is almost as good.
Happy reading.

Read! The book is a bit dated, but the aliens are just so ALIEN!

Seriously, though, this is a great book. The Moties (aliens) are beautifully described, and at the moment, I can think of only one other book that compares in this respect (Becoming Alien, in case anyone wants to know).

Niven and Pournelle have written some good books, enjoyed footfall. However Mote in God's eye was not bad.

I truly feel one of the best SF novels written

John wrote: "I've read "Mote" and "Gripping Hand" and enjoyed both quite a bit. I didn't realize there was a third book, however."
The third book is by Jerry Pournelle's daughter. Not as good Mote or Hand, but worth a read.

One of the hardest things to create is a different psycho-social foundation for an alien culture. CJ Cherryh does this very well. Mote is excellent for this as well. They create a simple variant that is both subtle and striking. I strongly recommend it.
PS: IMO, Niven creates worlds and Pournelle creates characters. Hard to read Niven alone. Even Ringworld was mostly technical.

Laz wrote: "PS: IMO, Niven creates worlds and Pournelle creates characters. Hard to read Niven alone. Even Ringworld was mostly technical. "

INTERESTING! I've mostly read the great stuff they co-wrote, but I've read a little of each of their own solo work and now I'm going to really reflect on that observation. I'm very intrigued! Cool insight/opinion - thank you!

Yes. I have read this book and felt the ending was very satisfying. There was obviously a thread to continue, but it was a solid ending. This was good science fiction and entertaining to read.

Mote combines solidly-characterized sweeping socio-political drama, believable extrapolations of technology, and big sci-fi ideas. While reading about the Moties, bear in mind the particular societal angst of the mid-late 70s around overpopulation. Not that we've gotten over such concerns, but to society at the time of its authorship Mote offered a powerful commentary on the human condition.

Lucifer's Hammer was good. Read it if you like post-apocalyptic sci-fi and want to see it given the cast of dozens treatment with layers of plot and drama (like Mote). Never did get interested in Footfall even though I owned it at least twice.

Do read Mote in God's Eye . It is a great piece of science fiction.

I really enjoyed Mote. Two of my favorite books are The Smoke Ring and The Integral Trees. I strongly recommend both as excellent examples of Niven's work on his own.

Vince wrote: "Never did get interested in Footfall even though I owned it at least twice. "

Footfall was enjoyable in nearly the same way that Mote was. Aliens and humans that are believable woven into a terrific story. I thought the ending was a bit too pat for me but as always, mileage varies.

Anna wrote: "Question to all who have read this book...
I am looking to get into another trilogy or series and I have noticed "The Mote in God's Eye" appears on many fave lists. However, the second and third b..."

Definately worth the read but not good as stand alone books.

I liked Mote in God's Eye and Gripping Hand, though the latter felt as if it was full of ideas they should have had for the first book and didn't.
Footfall is good SF, but Lucifer's Hammer was too much a way of taking pot-shots at the environmental movement for my taste.

Bored me to tears!

Footfall was good, but I thought Lucifer's Hammer was much better. Oh well, I guess we all have different tastes.

The Mote in God's Eye was quite good. The Gripping Hand, not so much.

Footfall's ending fell flat. Lucifer's Hammer was excellent.

The Smoke Ring and The Integral Trees are better than any of them.

Well, Mike I will have to check out the two you recommend.

Michael wrote: "The Mote in God's Eye was quite good. The Gripping Hand, not so much.

Footfall's ending fell flat. Lucifer's Hammer was excellent.

The Smoke Ring and The Integral Trees are better than any of t..."

Second on the Smoke Ring and Integral Trees. There is also a short story that's part of this series in "N Space" called "The Kite Master".

I leave the sf to you all, but I was not too impressed with this work. I am more a Stansilaw Lem or Phillip Dick kind of guy from what I have read so far.

just to clear some confusion:
part 1: The Mote in God's Eye
part 2: The Gripping Hand
(UK title: The Moat around Murcheson's Eye)

Sohail Keegan wrote: "Read! The book is a bit dated, but the aliens are just so ALIEN!"

And that's why I love this book.

There's too many "Aliens" in books that are one sided, or have a single boring facet or mentality, that the Moties are fantastic, and believable.

I usually prefer Niven's short stories to his novels - Tales of Known Space are great.

For another series, though, you might try Hyperion by Dan Simmons. Best SF I've read in the past decade, I think.

The Mote In God's Eye has earned a place on favorites list. Great story, solid characters and an alien civilization that makes sense. The Gripping Hand is a follow up book doesn't reach the level of the first book. I enjoyed it, but wouldn't place it on a favorites list. A solid B level story.

Niven and Pournelle together are better than either alone. Lucifer's Hammer dated but amazing. Inferno silly and entertaining.

I just finished it, and found it to be one of the better books I have read. I happen to lobe Footfall and Lucifers Hammer....and I too just found out about the other 2 books...maybe I have to find them. The Mote stands on its own and you don't need a follow up!

The Mote in God's Eye is one of the classics of hard SF. Laz's comment about Niven creating worlds and Pournelle creating characters in this book is true. In fact, I'd go farther: Anything that smacks of traditional naval/military space opera is Pournelle, including the preference for aristocratic and military characters over civilians. Anything having to do with Moties - and any character that likes to solve puzzles (Renner, Whitbread) - is Niven's.

And I'd agree that TMIGE is definitely worth reading, but if you want more Niven, I'd check out some of his short story collections, like "Neutron Star."

I think The Mote in God's Eye is a worthwhile read. Footfall and Lucifer's Hammer were pretty good for their sub-genres (alien invasion, apocalypse and post-apocalypse), and are also worthwhile reads. Inferno is in a group by itself, and is an enjoyable re-telling of Dante's original.

Niven's short stories are, imho, overall better than his novels. Ringworld and Integral Trees are better than OK; on the other hand, the Ringworld sequels were not.

I'm persnickety. I was brought up on healthy doses of Asimov, Heinlein and Bradbury. Most science fiction written in the last several decades doesn't work for me as entertainment. My opinion? THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE is my personal favorite in the science fiction field. I recommend it to any writer of sci-fi who wants to up their game. THE GRIPPING HAND doesn't really kick-in for me until the second half, but it has a hell of a second half. There is also a third book that I know of, OUTIES, but I only recommend that for Motie fanatics. This is just my personal bias. I've read LUCIFER'S HAMMER, but it just barely kept me reading. I think I abandoned INFERNO and OATH OF FEALTY. I did enjoy THE LEGACY OF HEOROT and FOOTFALL. That's just me. Cheers! @hg47

The Gripping Hand was not near as good as The Mote in Gods Eye, but that book stands on its own and did not need a sequel. Read them both if you want but you must read The Mote In Gods Eye. I didn't know about the third...........?

If you like stories that show the relationships between human and Sentient Alien Beings, this is a great book.

Outies is not by Jerry Pournell but his daughter. The book relates to Mote and Gripping but it is no real sequel in my eyes, because there's no Niven and no Jerry Pournelle in it.

I found Mote in God's Eye to be incredibly boring.

Georg wrote: "Outies is not by Jerry Pournell but his daughter. The book relates to Mote and Gripping but it is no real sequel in my eyes, because there's no Niven and no Jerry Pournelle in it."

Hey, Georg! OUTIES was a tough read for me. Jennifer's book had its moments, but I think it would be improved by some ruthless editing. If I were her editor, I would cut most of 5% through 45%. That's just me. @hg47

Java wrote: "I found Mote in God's Eye to be incredibly boring."

Hey, Java! I'm curious. What science fiction books do you find incredibly interesting? @hg47

Laz wrote: "PS: IMO, Niven creates worlds and Pournelle creates characters."
But, but ... there are no characters in this book, just caricatures. There's a shallow, entirely predictable romance, a bunch of yawn military / ethnic stereotypes and ... what?
The most emotionally engaged, well-rounded character is an alien that lives only to fix machines. What does that tell you?

For many years THE MOTE IN GOD'S EYE was my all-time favorite SF novel. Ever since it lost that status to ENDERS GAME it is my second favorite. It is an unbelievably good SF novel. Strongly recommended.

TMIGE is worth a try but depends on your expectations whether you'll enjoy or not. Over the years I've read it 3 or 4 times but it is of a certain era, if you enjoy something like the Culture novels or Revelation Space then it will seem dated and a little juvenile. If you set your brain clock back 30 years then it's a good read.

Overall, I think The Mote in God's Eye was OK, not great, but a fun read. There are a lot of books that look at human / intelligent alien relations; some doing it much better, including those by Vernor Vinge and CJ Cherryh, among others.