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2666
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2666 by Roberto Bolano (Angus, Doc Ranee, Emir, H, and Mina), Start Date: January 3.
Good luck na lang sa ating dalawa (possibly tatlo)...2012 will be the year of long, hard, reads....Nawili! heeheheHappy New Year!
Ayan, possibly apat na. Happy New Year din! :D
Ang reading plan sa itaas ay guide lang. We don't strictly follow, although it is strongly suggested para makasunod tayo lahat sa discussions. Then you just post your inputs, anything. Ranta, ravea. Sidetracks, chismis.
Wala namang rules...just try to read the prescribed pages everyday...if not ok lang din hehehe. Then discuss whatever you feel like discussing.... Sana nga maka quota pa rin ako :(
Got this as a gift for Christmas. Di ko alam kung kaya kong sumabay sa inyo. So saling ket-ket lang muna ako. Hehehe...
Yay! Mina is joining! Kaya mo iyan! :D
Day 1: Ok naman so far...I like the (semi) straightforward storytelling. Hahaha..after Midnight's Children, it seems like a breath of fresh air!! Wala na atang tatalo kay Saleem as literature's most talkative narrator :PNaiinggit ako don sa 4 na friends/professors...parang ang saya ng literary life and careers nila...pa-attend attend ng mga literary conferences, writing papers, translating, hanging out and debating about Archimboldi....sana ganon din buhay ko HAAHAHAHA!
Day 1:I actually have notes regarding this (one of my resolutions), but I don't have them with me. Oh well.
My preconceived notions: tough, a mental exercise, prepare to get bored. But really, this is fun. No need to prepare yourself. Or maybe I've been well prepared by the previous book that H and I read?
The narrative is very engaging. I was laughing at some parts, particularly the part where Perrier and Espinoza are having a phone conversation about Norton (happiness used once, love used twice, Liz mentioned umpteenth times, etc.).
One of the commentaries says that this is a book about books. Yes it is, and the first book that I am reminded of is Byatt's Possession. Note the parallelisms below:
Benno von Archimboldi = Randolph Henry Ash/Christabel Lamotte
Perrier, Espinoza, Morini, Norton = Maud, Roland
And yes, we love that life! Literary talk until our brains bleed of letters. But really, it is too ideal a life. Probably such a life is sustainable if you are in a nice country, say Italy or France or UK or even Spain.
But the Philippines?
Hahah I also took notes! But mostly just character names and things to remember them by (in case we are flooded later by other characters, as I'm sure we will be!).LOL I also found that conversation quite funny...(love used twice, once by both guys...etc.). I actually laughed out loud in a lot of parts, but I can't remember which parts. Sometimes I just react with "...wtf...!?" LOL.
I started Possession a long time ago but stopped halfway...I kinda got bored with it. This book kinda reminds me of Don Quixote, where a lot of the times it's just stories about people telling stories about other people..like a short story within the larger book...
I read that this book was about the gruesome murders of hundreds of people in Mexico, but so far it has only been hinted at. I don't know how these 4 characters will tie in with that story.
Sometimes I feel like the writer is trying different experimental writing styles. Sometimes it's stream of consciousness, sometimes it's very straight-forward. Then he has those paragraphs like the phone conversation between Pelletier and Ezpinoza...
Yes, I think that kind of lifestyle goes with certain environments, like Europe....Paris is very conducive for that kind of life...lol. Nakaka-miss :(
I'm liking it so far...interesting...engaging, and a little mysterious....
Oh yes, Morini mentioned something about hearing the crimes and how he wanted to marry the reporter and then forgetting that prospect an hour later. If we try to connect the murders now, it would feel very disjointed.I just remember now the very long sentence about the rich widow's encounter with Archimboldi. It reads like a very modern Virginia Woolf.
Emir, we'd love to hear from you. Have a good day!
Angus wrote: "I just remember now the very long sentence about the rich widow's encounter with Archimboldi"Hahaha...the two-page story told in one, long, run-on sentence? lol.
I'm reading here at the office...I told myself that I had better do some work first, but I can't stop reading it LOL :P
Natutuwa ako sa relationship ni Pelletier and Espinoza...
H: That's my only problem. Is it really possible to feel fine when your friend is screwing the same woman you are screwing? There should be something that would form a lump in your throat, a sort of jealousy. Or are they just too liberal?I think some way, their friendship will form a crack. I didn't bring my copy with me. Medyo back to normal na today sa office. It sucks, hahaha.
May e-book version ako na binabasa ko dito sa office. Masyadong malaki yung actual book to carry around. Hirap na hirap nga ako basahin yon sa bahay eh, ang hirap hawakan :P It's in Word and pdf...I can send it to anyone who wants it....
Actually I think they are both in denial that they are ok with it. They talk about it some more later on...sorry, I'm reading ahead because I've nothing better to do, and it really is interesting.
I'm still waiting for the inevitable menage a trois LOL....
Emir: Isn't that a sort of perversion? Exhibitionism? Anyway, there's a pervert in all of us, hahaha.
I think may extra thrill para sa iba yung mga ok lang na panoorin sila, etc. Then again you have to ask, what does being a "pervert" mean? Ang perverted sa iba...hindi naman perverted para sa iba....hehe..wala lang..pampagulo lang.
Though I think in relation to the two guys in the story...plastic lang silang dalawa. Like they feel that it is above their intellectual, sophisticated selves to be jealous....
I was just wondering...have you guys ever been as obsessed by a writer as the Critics are by Archimbaldi? Of course not to the extent that you've translated their works, but, like read all their books and followed their life with keen interest?
Emir wrote: "Angus wrote: "H: That's my only problem. Is it really possible to feel fine when your friend is screwing the same woman you are screwing? There should be something that would form a lump in your th..."isn't this the concept of "Toro"? the shows they put up in certain bars where the crowd watches the act by the "Torero"?
i have to say that I have not read the book, I forgot the book and I am on duty. Oh well.
I haven't started reading it. Di ko masingit kanina. I'll catch up.
Ok lang...no pressure :)
Thanks H. ;p relief... nyarharhar...
post ka na lang ng mga rants and raves mo when you feel like ranting or raving about any part of the book hehe...or kahit rants and raves lang din about our comments, puwede rin hehe.
Doc: H has a soft copy. She can send it to you so that you could read it on a mobile device while you are on duty. :)Mina: Yep, no pressure. We all have distractions to deal with.
H: I don't go as far as following their lives. But yes, I'm going to read all the works of Jose Saramago, Kazuo Ishiguro, and David Mitchell (I have all his books already). And hopefully Knut Hamsun (his books are hard to find).
I think I've only ever done that with Neil Gaiman and Kurt Vonnegut. I tried with Gabriel Garcia Marquez and Salman Rushdie, but, it's too hard to read all their books....
Day 2: Quote of the Day"...this one is for Salman Rushdie (an author neither of them happened to think was much good but whose mention seemed pertinent), this one is for the feminists of Paris...."
LOL!
Day 2:Now I know where intellectual elitist is coming from! And did you see that part about Salman Rushdie? My heart swooned when they kicked that Pakistani for Rushdie despite their belief that he isn't that good. Which comes to me as a coincidence because Midnight's Children is the most recent book that I/we finished.
And then there's all this talk about the world being a coincidence. I am not sure if I want to agree because it makes me feel like a machine if I put that in my head. Like there are strings pulling me to lead me wherever it is I am supposed to go. I don't like that. I want to think that I can perform my purpose without the necessity of the strings.
And I've been waiting forever for that threesome! I admit that it's the thing that I am looking forward to the most, aside from the unraveling of the mysteries of Archimboldi. LOL. I know I am being pervy, but what can I do? Perrier-Norton-Espinoza is one of the most intriguing relationships I've read about.
H wrote: "Day 2: Quote of the Day"...this one is for Salman Rushdie (an author neither of them happened to think was much good but whose mention seemed pertinent), this one is for the feminists of Paris......"
Wahahaha! Sabi ko na nga ba't hindi mo palalampasin ito eh!
Kainis naman! Ang haba haba ng tinype ko tapos hindi na post dahil sa error!!!!Anyway.....let's try this again...
1. What if what you think of as "choice" is really "destiny?"
2. Sorry I've kinda been reading ahead because there will be days later on when I won't be able to read the prescribed pages. I'm already on the Part About Amalfitano...
3. It's quite strange that I find this book so fascinating to read. If you think about it, the first part is just random events in the lives of the critics, but there are some passages that just take me by surprise, and I can't help laughing out loud.
Nakaka-adik syang basahin...pag nasumilan ko na magbasa parang ayoko tigilan...
btw...Pelletier yon, hindi Perrier (bottled water yon!) Hehehehe!
So can we read that remark to mean that, you may be successful in your career/profession, and find enlightenment, but in the end, you will still seek something tangible, basic, and concrete, like a partner, and love?
hehehe well....successful in a way that they have made names for themselves as Archimboldi scholars.
Bifurcation! Word of the day!Pelletier! Hahaha. Sorry. I forget it always.
But, but, whether successful or not, it almost always boils down to love (cue: I Just Need Somebody to Love - Justin Bieber). However, Pelletier-Norton-Espinoza strike me as somewhat desperate.
Choice vs. destiny. May I ask first? From what school of philosophy is everyone?
School of philosphy...may ganon pa ba? hehehe I don't know...school of thought ng anthropology puwede kong sagutin...Functionalist ako eh...meaning that culture exists to answer man's basic biological needs (may konek?? Wala ata hehe).Anyway...I don't like that idea that it all boils down to love and companionship, etc. I think the critics are "desperate" because they are elitists...meaning they probably don't think that other people are worthy of them and vice versa. In their world, silang 4 lang ang intellectual equals...sila lang ang puwede nilang mahalin talaga.
As far as destiny vs. choice goes...I don't believe in destiny. The paths of our lives depends on the choices we make (random or not) - I don't think we are "destined" do do anything...and I don't believe that people are born with a purpose. That's just things we create to give our lives meaning (aha, relevant naman pala yung Functionalist theory after all!).
Also, if it helps, I don't believe in god either....We are born, we live our lives (following cultural constructs of the society we live in), we die..that's all. I don't believe in the afterlife either.
Emir...ako, deep? Hindi nga eh...I only actually looked back and thought about the stuff I read after you brought it up. hehehe. I think, this first part of the book is basically just one loooong introduction to bigger things - and as of now I don't know what those bigger things are yet.
H: But being an elitist does not necessarily mean being desperate, yes? And even if we don't like that idea about love, friendship (I don't like it as well), why did they even seek each other and continue their correspondences? Surely, companionship is one reason.Emir: I am not as deep a reader as you think I am. I just enjoy reading such books. Whatever thoughts that come across my head are just my own. I don't bother to research just to validate how the book comes to me. And yes, a lot of questions, which probably explains the breadth. I rarely find a book that immediately offers answers. Would the reader still be interested beyond 1+1=2? Unless that turns out to 1+1=3.
It's only natural to have questions and concerns when reading, of course....so keep all those (deep or shallow) thoughts coming. The more points of discussion, the better. Or kahit gusto mo lang mag rant ...puwede rin!No, I didn't mean being elitist = being desperate. I just meant that, maybe what you saw as desperation was really just them being their elite selves...idea ko lang naman yon.
Well, in the beginning, of course they were brought together by their common interests (Archimboldi) and careers, but then they maintained their friendship probably because of those same interests, and for me, I think it's really because they think they are intellectual equals, so pumapasok nanaman ang pagiging intellectual elitists and snobs nila. Maybe, if it did evolve into love or companionship, parang later on na lang...
Emir: Makes sense...lol. Sorry, I think my comments about them being intellectual elitists are from day 3 and 4 readings.....and those are just inferences from their reactions to future events in the novel.
The intellectual elitists remark is uhm, remarkable because it is italicized, hahaha. It's something that H and I have dwelled on when it was mentioned on another thread.I don't think anyone can ever truly know someone despite the things that you do for that person. Only the self can know that person, and funny, the self even doubts his knowledge of that person.
And have you noticed one motif? Dreams that have bodies of water (pool, beach), cliffs, etc.
No pressure on the speed, we still manage to discuss regardless of what page we are on. I think H is ahead than most of us. :D
Ngayon lang yan...nagiipon lang ako ng pages hehehe.Baka mas mapansin nyo yang pagiging elitista nila later on when you get to a certain part of the story....
True about not being able to know anyone really well. I think even with Archimboldi, they may have mentioned somewhere that though they have analyzed him to pieces, they still don't really know much about him as a person...
Pelletier said even if he didn't meet Norton when he did, they may have eventually met later in life, but she may have different opinions about him: think he's a narcissist, arrogant, and intellectual elitist....I just made a joke in another thread where Angus made a comment about book preferences...and I said, "this is waht Pelletier meant as being an intellectual elitist..."
They didn't really talk about it in the book other than in passing, from that part I mentioned. And it's not something they defined.
Para sa akin...when I say they are intellectual elitists, I'm referring to when they think they are better than other Archimboldi scholars, and the way they look down on other writers, students, and later, on other cultures (countries).
Angus wrote: "H: That's my only problem. Is it really possible to feel fine when your friend is screwing the same woman you are screwing? There should be something that would form a lump in your throat, a sort o..."
In their case, prior to the sex happening, neither Pelletier or Espinoza expressed their intention or desire to be with Liz. Their attitude towards this would be different if after their first meeting, one of them said he's interested and the other would say go for it. Pero yun pala siya din will go for it. Somehow, their love triangle (if we could call it that) is more circumstantial than 100% intentional.
In their case, prior to the sex happening, neither Pelletier or Espinoza expressed their intention or desire to be with Liz. Their attitude towards this would be different if after their first meeting, one of them said he's interested and the other would say go for it. Pero yun pala siya din will go for it. Somehow, their love triangle (if we could call it that) is more circumstantial than 100% intentional.
H wrote: "So can we read that remark to mean that, you may be successful in your career/profession, and find enlightenment, but in the end, you will still seek something tangible, basic, and concrete, like a..."
Emir wrote: What, they thought that love was an easier task? Hah!
There is a realization that relationships are important. What people really want is a two-way relationship. They want to be an active participant; not just an observer.
Actually, I think they think love is not easy. Because if it is then their love for Archimboldi would have yielded something. In their eyes, they are at war, since they are fighting to gain access to what they love (more knowledge re: Archimboldi's life).
Emir wrote: What, they thought that love was an easier task? Hah!
There is a realization that relationships are important. What people really want is a two-way relationship. They want to be an active participant; not just an observer.
Actually, I think they think love is not easy. Because if it is then their love for Archimboldi would have yielded something. In their eyes, they are at war, since they are fighting to gain access to what they love (more knowledge re: Archimboldi's life).
Emir wrote: "Why are you guys silent today? Haha. I've reached the life is an accident part last night and I was too sleepy to continue. Will continue reading later..."Hahaha! Kasi... hindi ako nakapagbasa last night. Mga 10 pages lang, sobrang basag lang. Will catch up later.
Mina wrote: "Angus wrote: "H: That's my only problem. Is it really possible to feel fine when your friend is screwing the same woman you are screwing? There should be something that would form a lump in your th..."I think they thought themselves too cerebral to immediately admit that Liz is acting as an aphrodisiac to our younger lit critics. I think they were immediately attracted to her. But yes, it's not intentional, I agree.
hahaha wala lang...nagpapakitang gilas sa office :D so ano na ba...game! hehehe
pang Day 2 ba or Day 3 ang discussion today? Ayoko kasi magsabi ng kung ano ano tapos hindi pa pala nababasa ng iba....Ayoko mag post ng accidental spoilers eh, so I was waiting for you guys to start the discussion :P
Hehehe kaya nga...so kung ano man ang i=discuss nyo, makiki-epal na lang ako don hahaha.
H wrote: "pang Day 2 ba or Day 3 ang discussion today? Ayoko kasi magsabi ng kung ano ano tapos hindi pa pala nababasa ng iba....
Ayoko mag post ng accidental spoilers eh, so I was waiting for you guys to ..."
Go lang ng go. Post lang ng post. Hayaan mo kaming mabagal magbasa. Ako magrereact lang sa nabasa ko na. Hehehe...
Ayoko mag post ng accidental spoilers eh, so I was waiting for you guys to ..."
Go lang ng go. Post lang ng post. Hayaan mo kaming mabagal magbasa. Ako magrereact lang sa nabasa ko na. Hehehe...
CHOICE vs DESTINY
Can't remember who said this "We are all destined to be great. It is left up to us to choose to be great." Agree ako dito.
In the end, it's the choices that we make that defines us. Siguro H kaya mo nasabing d ka naniniwala sa Destiny ay dahil puwedeng di siya mangyari kung hindi natin pipiliin.
Page 70 pa lang ako. Pero, from what I see, the P-L-E triangle may have started unintentionally, pero their definitely choosing the FB- "it's complicated" - relationship status. ;p
Can't remember who said this "We are all destined to be great. It is left up to us to choose to be great." Agree ako dito.
In the end, it's the choices that we make that defines us. Siguro H kaya mo nasabing d ka naniniwala sa Destiny ay dahil puwedeng di siya mangyari kung hindi natin pipiliin.
Page 70 pa lang ako. Pero, from what I see, the P-L-E triangle may have started unintentionally, pero their definitely choosing the FB- "it's complicated" - relationship status. ;p
Mina: Mahirap talaga na discussion yang Choice vs. Destiny..hehehe.Actually nag catch-up na nga siguro kayo sa akin (or si Angus and Emir, at least) kasi yung advanced reading ko pang hanggang ngayon lang, and hindi pa ako tapos with today's assigned pages hehehe).
I'm done with Day 3, kalahati ko pa lang ang Day 4. Medyo sabaw pa ako, haha. Mayang konti na ako magpost. :D
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The Part about the Critics
Day 01: 1-53 (53 pages)
Day 02: 53-106 (54 pages)
Day 03: 106-159 (54 pages)
The Part about Amalfitano
Day 04: 161-228 (68 pages)
The Part about Fate
Day 05: 229-290 (62 pages)
Day 06: 290-349 (60 pages)
The Part about the Crimes
Day 07: 351-409 (59 pages)
Day 08: 409-466 (58 pages)
Day 09: 466-522 (57 pages)
Day 10: 522-578 (57 pages)
Day 11: 578-633 (56 pages)
The Part about Archimboldi
Day 12: 635-689 (55 pages)
Day 13: 689-738 (50 pages)
Day 14: 738-790 (53 pages)
Day 15: 790-841 (52 pages)
Day 16: 841-893 (53 pages)