The Hunt for Red October
question
Has Tom Clancy lost it?
Frank
Jan 11, 2012 10:56AM
I loved all of his earlier stuff but then he fell off the grid for years- aside from some "B" series novels written by others.(NetForce, OpCenter etc)
Then all of a sudden in the past year he hammers out THREE new novels! (Dead or Alive, Against All Enemies, Locked On)
My guess is that he had a contract that needed to be fulfilled so the publisher handed off the books to co-writers and threw these together. Just check the comments on Amazon for these three recent titles and you'll see that a good number of fans are disappointed. It used to be that the "new" Tom Clancy book was an event. Now it's just (or seems to be....) a rushed product to meet a quarterly bottom line.
I mean I could be wrong but if I am.... why hasn't Tom granted any media/print interviews? Unless he is ill and I hope not but then that would make the news as well wouldn't it?
But really, come on- three huge books within a year's time with the man's name at the top? Something's amiss and if the publisher keeps cranking out titles without taking the care to make each one match the glory days of earlier classics, they'll just tarnish the brand and sales will drop. Or maybe today's readers aren't as picky as they once were?
What do the rest of you think?
Then all of a sudden in the past year he hammers out THREE new novels! (Dead or Alive, Against All Enemies, Locked On)
My guess is that he had a contract that needed to be fulfilled so the publisher handed off the books to co-writers and threw these together. Just check the comments on Amazon for these three recent titles and you'll see that a good number of fans are disappointed. It used to be that the "new" Tom Clancy book was an event. Now it's just (or seems to be....) a rushed product to meet a quarterly bottom line.
I mean I could be wrong but if I am.... why hasn't Tom granted any media/print interviews? Unless he is ill and I hope not but then that would make the news as well wouldn't it?
But really, come on- three huge books within a year's time with the man's name at the top? Something's amiss and if the publisher keeps cranking out titles without taking the care to make each one match the glory days of earlier classics, they'll just tarnish the brand and sales will drop. Or maybe today's readers aren't as picky as they once were?
What do the rest of you think?
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Franchise wear out, like any product. There was a time when a Big Mac was cool. No more.
For books, the reasons are different. I doubt that the fire is still in the belly, or the plotines in the brain after 15 or more books. Bringing in co-authors is a sign of that.
No longer can I read James Patterson, although his early works were terrific. Not my genre (!) but Barabara Cartland published, I believe, over 300 novels. She acknowledged that they were all written to the same formula, and to a timetable. She dictated them, and certainly didn't (AFAIK) use teams of writers.
I hope that TC is not ill, and hope that his newest works are an improvement on his 'middle period'. The reviews, though, are not encouraging. His early stuff was stunning, and the film versions pretty good too.
For books, the reasons are different. I doubt that the fire is still in the belly, or the plotines in the brain after 15 or more books. Bringing in co-authors is a sign of that.
No longer can I read James Patterson, although his early works were terrific. Not my genre (!) but Barabara Cartland published, I believe, over 300 novels. She acknowledged that they were all written to the same formula, and to a timetable. She dictated them, and certainly didn't (AFAIK) use teams of writers.
I hope that TC is not ill, and hope that his newest works are an improvement on his 'middle period'. The reviews, though, are not encouraging. His early stuff was stunning, and the film versions pretty good too.
Red Rabbit is a really good read, but other than that I'm not a big fan of anything he wrote after the late 80s (maybe early 90s at most). If you like "The Hunt for Red October," "The Cardinal of the Kremlin," and "Red Storm Rising," then you definitely should check out "Red Rabbit," which is based in The Cold War and was written by Clancy about 10 years ago.
Dr. Leonardo Noto
Physician, Author, and Owner of "The Health and Medical Blog with a Personality," www.leonardonoto.com
Dr. Leonardo Noto
Physician, Author, and Owner of "The Health and Medical Blog with a Personality," www.leonardonoto.com
I treasure a short note I received from Tom Clancy after reading Without Remorse. I was intrigued by his development and redemption of John Clark. I enjoyed his last three novels, though they are lightweight by comparison to his earlier work. I will still buy anything with his name on it though.
I think Clancy lost his edge after Clear And Present Danger. With the end of the Cold War, he lost the core that made his novels great. I think momentum carried him through Clear And Present Danger but after that, he seemed to run out of gas, as if he was just going through the motions. Although, I have to admit The Bear And The Dragon was pretty good, but there again, he was back to Cold War-like conflict.
Clancy's early books were great. I loved the Hunt for Red October and Red Storm Rising. Heck, I even bought RSR for the Commodore way back when and enjoyed the game alot. His later books were meh. I've seen the same trend with Stephen King. His pre-It books were great. "It" showed King was losing his fire.
Sometimes I wonder if success hurts. RA Salvatore's first books (Ynies Aielle) were godawful. Everything after has been great.
Sanderson has had the same success as Clancy and King, which greatly concerns me. I don't want to see Sanderson lose his fire and talent!
Sometimes I wonder if success hurts. RA Salvatore's first books (Ynies Aielle) were godawful. Everything after has been great.
Sanderson has had the same success as Clancy and King, which greatly concerns me. I don't want to see Sanderson lose his fire and talent!
Ah, this is my first comment on this site. So apologies if I am too blunt. The problem with Tom Clancy is that he almost immediately graduated from being a fun-to-read spinner of yarns to someone who supposedly knew what he was writing/talking about. Exacerbating all this is the fact that he is a natural storyteller. But no matter how much tradecraft, how much tactics and equipment, how much explanation of high-tech Mr. Clancy incorporates, it's not enough to give the reader a felt understanding of the characters and what they go through. For the most part, his characters are cartoons (and please don't get me wrong: there is nothing wrong with writing cartoons). But the world has changed since Mr. Clancy wrote THE HUNT FOR RED OCTOBER. We are not as naive as we once were. And because we are not, we want more than cartoons. We want a piece of the real deal--and we want it in terms of the characters.
I agree with you about Cardinal in the Kremlin. I went through a period where I read all of his books, but then, for many of the reasons already discussed, I stopped. However, Cardinal was always my favorite, and I thought, it was the book where he figured out how to write characters. But then I read an interview where he said that he thought Cardinal was his worst book. Go figure.
JamesMarinero is right. It's a franchise that has run it's course. And, unfortunately, I don't see anyone remotely close to replacing Clancy.
After forcing my way through the first half of The Teeth of the Tiger, I zipped right through the second half and all the J.R. jr. books that followed. I agree that the writing is different, but I think Clancy, along with his co-authors, have edited out much of the technical details that tended to bog down the plot in order to streamline the story. My opinion is that these later books are different, but equal in entertainment. I often found the first third or so of his older books would be filled jumps between new characters that I had to keep track of, whereas in the Junior series, you just picked up where you left off with a dozen or so characters that you already knew.
His early books were terrific. I read every one. Then, I picked up one and by the end of the first page, I said to my wife, "Clancy didn't write this book, even though his name is on it." He poured his blood and sweat into the early books. Now, it's someone else's blood. Not yet as good. The same thing is true of James Patterson. Let's hope that Baldacci doesn't fall into that trap.
I think the major issue is that with Clancy's earlier novels, we were at odds with the USSR, which was one country to focus on. These days, our enemies (mainly Al-Quida) our enemies are spread across multiple countries. It may be that Clancy couldn't make the switch from writing about the Cold War era to the post 9/11 era.
Though I was not a big fan of the likes of Teeth of the Tiger, and Dead or Alive, I must say, Locked On and Threat Vector made me very happy. They were some of the best Clancy products yet
I was enjoying the Jack Jr. books and was shocked to hear today that Clancy has died!! He was only 66. I will miss his books so it would be great if one of his co-authors would take over the series....like the Robert Parker series.
Now he's dead. The last books had co-writers. The guy copying him is not Clancy and can't be Clancy. The co-writer was approved by Clancy, but never was as good.
Clancy "lost it" with and after Rainbow Six, imho. Prior to that he was dynamite. My favorites being Without Remorse and Clear and Present Danger.
I'm also sorry to hear that. I read every one of Clancy's Jack Ryan series and loved them all. Ditto the movies. Your speculation could be right. Either illness or he feels he's made enough money. Whenever I seen a major author's name "with" another relative unknown, I assume the name author's subcontracted for a a cut of the royalties. I read a couple of Clancy's earlier coop writing ventures and was disappointed. Thanks for the heads up on these.
I have only read Dead or alive ---- and was less than impressed with it. Jack Junior doesn't really compare to his old man.
But then it's a hard time for thriller authors to find really good antagonists and causes to fight against. It's similar with the works of Patrick Robinson who started out as a good Clancy clone but today is only slightly above the average raving "Tea Party" lunatic with his extremely conservative world views and plots.
And don't get me started on Bond ;) There's another victim of the "no more good evil guys" syndrome. I hope strongly they will refrain from sending him out against muslims any time soon as that would be awkward cubed.
And btw. I don't believe in the "co author" theory cause til now Clancy always gave credit when there was another one involved in the writing and most of this "Tom Clancy's ..." are clearly marked as only presented by him not even the starter band written personally. Igf the books say only Clancy then perhaps he had several books started but was unable to finish them until last year the problems vanished and he could put them all out?
But then it's a hard time for thriller authors to find really good antagonists and causes to fight against. It's similar with the works of Patrick Robinson who started out as a good Clancy clone but today is only slightly above the average raving "Tea Party" lunatic with his extremely conservative world views and plots.
And don't get me started on Bond ;) There's another victim of the "no more good evil guys" syndrome. I hope strongly they will refrain from sending him out against muslims any time soon as that would be awkward cubed.
And btw. I don't believe in the "co author" theory cause til now Clancy always gave credit when there was another one involved in the writing and most of this "Tom Clancy's ..." are clearly marked as only presented by him not even the starter band written personally. Igf the books say only Clancy then perhaps he had several books started but was unable to finish them until last year the problems vanished and he could put them all out?
I believe books now have to list the real writer of the book (in small print on the cover), along with the author who takes credit (in big print on the cover).
I do have a friend who ghosts memoirs, but that's a private transaction.
Bill
I do have a friend who ghosts memoirs, but that's a private transaction.
Bill
I can only imagine he hasn't written a book, game story or anthing with his name attached it in a very long time. The name Tom Clancy is a brand and not an author anymore. Its sad really. I still class Cardinal of the Gremlin as one of the best action/spy books I read when I was growing up.
I don't know what's going on with Mr. Clancy, but I look to a book to entertain me, raise some questions for me to think upon, and be interesting. Locked On did that for me still. I'm not comparing it to earlier books.....for I was a different person at that point in my life too, so maybe it was that my perspective was different. I loved seeing Jack Jr. out doing some work and seeing that his dad's pervasive sense of right was passed on. I haven't read the other two, but certainly plan to very soon.
Couldn't agree with the general feelings more, Clancy was a class story teller. His latest co-authored adventures do not come close to our real Clancy. Publishing companies are under great pressure to survive in a new electronic environment, therefore; they have to pull out the big guns "name brand authors" to get us to stepup and buy our heroes. This will only work for them so long.
I think publishers will focus on name recognization "authors (celebrities)" to drive their future revenue income. I have started enjoying indie authors. It's a search, but can be rewarding.
I think publishers will focus on name recognization "authors (celebrities)" to drive their future revenue income. I have started enjoying indie authors. It's a search, but can be rewarding.
Some readers may disagree with me, but I still think "Without Remorse" was Clancy's best novel--deeper characterization, more human pathos driving the characters, and fewer technical gadgets and converging plot lines to muddle the pace of the story. Of course, that was back before the Clancy name became a franchise.
He is not the only one that has dropped off. I have no interest in the later Doc Ford series by Randy Wayne White because of the comments I see at Amazon. Early Grisham was incredibly entertaining but I hear less and less about him as years go by. The good thing about White is he has an entire series written under a pseudonym before he became famous that I will someday check out. It has great reviews.
Maybe when you get old, you run out of ideas. Sounds like a good subject for a master's thesis.
Maybe when you get old, you run out of ideas. Sounds like a good subject for a master's thesis.
Clancy does seem to be getting lazy; I made it less than halfway through Locked On and couldn't finish. It really was predictable; I had hoped Against All Enemies had been a fluke but apparently not. Red Storm Rising is still one of my favorites.
Loved his old stuff up until Rainbow Six - and I agree that Without Remorse was one of his finest, along with The Hunt for Red October.
I assumed he'd retired until the new books appeared. From the reviews, it sounds as if he should have.
I assumed he'd retired until the new books appeared. From the reviews, it sounds as if he should have.
Dead or Alive was horrible, Against All Enemies and Locked On were much better - but still not as good as Executive Orders and others.
By the way, there was a short TC interview in 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRc8EL...
By the way, there was a short TC interview in 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRc8EL...
It's always dangerous when the writer become a commodity. That's when you see his/her name in big print on the cover, with the real writer's name beneath. Can't stand seeing that, and yes, Mr. Clancy, I'm referring to you. Love the early books - stopped reading a long time ago.
I haven't read much Clancy, I've read up thru The Hunt for Red October in the chronological order of the story line. I've loved everyone of them so far. It wasn't until I finished Locked On that I realized there was more to the story then I had read. I think that all of them were good. Maybe I'm just not far enough into the story to see where it goes bad. Also, I'm not against co-authors. Dale Brown and Jim DeFelice's Dreamland is another of my favorite series and in line to be read again, once I complete my ebook collection (I'm missing #2 Nerve Center and if anyone knows where I could find it, I'd appreciate the heads up).
I thought there was something in the news a while back about Clancy getting divorced and that his ex-wife was demanding part of the money from his Jack Ryan books, which led to speculation that he was dumping the character in order to keep his ex-wife from getting much more out of him.
And the political situation of the world has changed since 9/11, and I know I'm no longer looking at the United States as the complete "pure as the driven snow" country that it's generally portrayed as (if Jack Ryan has anything to do with it) in his older books. We've spent like crazy on two worthless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now we're apparently getting ready to do it again in Iran. Where are the real-life Jack Ryans who will keep our country on the straight-and-narrow and will stop us from doing completely stupid things? There's no Santa Claus, and there's no Jack Ryan, either.
And the political situation of the world has changed since 9/11, and I know I'm no longer looking at the United States as the complete "pure as the driven snow" country that it's generally portrayed as (if Jack Ryan has anything to do with it) in his older books. We've spent like crazy on two worthless wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and now we're apparently getting ready to do it again in Iran. Where are the real-life Jack Ryans who will keep our country on the straight-and-narrow and will stop us from doing completely stupid things? There's no Santa Claus, and there's no Jack Ryan, either.
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