Pulp Fiction discussion

I like my noir dark and sleazy. What is the sleaziest, trashiest noir you have ever read?

the killer inside me by jim thompson is as bad as it gets trust me.

Money Shot by Christa Faust comes to mind. It was well done sleaze, not really trashy. It was a murder in the porn industry from a former star's POV.

James Ellroy's novels are extremely trashy and sleazy. I know he has a great reputation among many, but I think most of his appeal lies in how tawdry his subject matter is.

Jim wrote: "Money Shot by Christa Faust comes to mind. It was well done sleaze, not really trashy. It was a murder in the porn industry from a former star's POV."<

I totally agree...well done sleaze and a good story.

I'd give that honor to Jordan Krall's King Scratch or L.V Rautenbaumgrabner's short story collection As I Was Cutting from New Pulp Press. Also, you can't go wrong with Tom Piccirilli.

Rautenbaumgrabner? That's a lot of name!

I believe it to be a pseudonym for something dirty in German. It's a cool collection, though. I got a review copy a couple years ago and was very impressed.

I mean a pseudonym that means something dirty in German. I don't assume this guy actually has a dirty German name. Because if he did it would be silly to give himself another one.

LOL! Rotten-bum-grabber or something? Actually, Google translate comes up with "Diamond tree Grabner". They probably don't include sleazy expressions into the software.
;-)

As I Was Cutting and Other Nastinesses by L.V. Rautenbaumgrabner has a pretty good rating. Looks kind of interesting.

Has anyone read any CARTER BROWN books? Look it up. I've read a couple. They're the sleaziest.
And the covers are great.

That doesn't seem to be a function of the book, but rather that the info comes from Amazon.

Jim wrote: "LOL! Rotten-bum-grabber or something? Actually, Google translate comes up with "Diamond tree Grabner". They probably don't include sleazy expressions into the software.
;-)

Jim, I don't think Google translation is hiding anything from you. "Rautenbaumgrabner" may sound like "rotten bum grabber," but the British term "bum" for "ass" really doesn't have a similar-sounding corollary. "Baum" always means tree. Words for "ass" in German include "arsch" and "po po."

"Grab" means "grave." "Graben" can mean digging, like digging a ditch or a grave, but I don't think "grabner" really means anything.

P.S. Jim, go to Google language tools, type in "Ich habe meine mutter gefickt" and see just how concerned they are about not including sleazy expression in the software. :-)

Justin wrote: "Has anyone read any CARTER BROWN books? Look it up. I've read a couple. They're the sleaziest.
And the covers are great."

Yeah, GR is going to quit getting info from the Amazon db the way it has been & will cut it off, then rescue a lot of books after. There's a big to-do about it in the Librarians group. Kindle books won't be changed, though. Librarians can rescue books, too.

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"Ich habe meine mutter gefickt" = Oh my! You're right, Adam.

Justin wrote: "Has anyone read any CARTER BROWN books? Look it up. I've read a couple. They're the sleaziest.
And the covers are great."

I've read a heap of Carter Brown books - simple linear plots with semi interesting characters. The Danny Boyd books are my favouries :-). His Al Wheeler just comes off as a poor mans Spillane in imo - that being said I still like to read them!

The absolute biggest piece of pulp crap in history had to be "Sicilian Defense", a sort of mob-friendly lower east side vs. Harlem italio-sploitation book from the 70s written by a guy named Nicholas Ianuzzi. Aside from being aggressively racist, the story makes "Fort Apache The Bronx" look balanced and reasonable.

It was ... so bad. So bad it will stick in my memory for an eternity, even though it's now out of print ( I believe.)

Mark wrote: "the killer inside me by jim thompson is as bad as it gets trust me."

I've heard some of the guys talk up Jim Thompson over in the Hard Case Crime group. According to Wikipedia, Stephen King had this to say about Thompson:
"The guy was over the top. The guy was absolutely over the top. Big Jim didn't know the meaning of the word stop. There are three brave lets inherent in the forgoing: he let himself see everything, he let himself write it down, then he let himself publish it."
Well, I'm sold.

Joe wrote: "Mark wrote: "the killer inside me by jim thompson is as bad as it gets trust me."

I've heard some of the guys talk up Jim Thompson over in the Hard Case Crime group. According to Wikipedia, Stephe..."

His two-part autobiography (roughneck/bad boy, if I recall correctly) is really good, too. Very direct, sparse and to the bone.

Justin wrote: "I like my noir dark and sleazy. What is the sleaziest, trashiest noir you have ever read?"
There are so many, don't know where to begin! But, I think they are all beautifully summed up in Bill Pronzini's classic "Gun in Cheek" a collection of the most hard-boiled language ever produced! Check it out if you haven't read it.

Hnmestel wrote: "Justin wrote: "I like my noir dark and sleazy. What is the sleaziest, trashiest noir you have ever read?"
There are so many, don't know where to begin! But, I think they are all beautifully summed ..."

I've got Gun and Cheek and his sequel Son of Gun in Cheek. Great section on Charlie Chan movies in the second book where he includes all kinds of crazy quotes from our favorite Chinese detective. For example: "Interesting problem in chemistry: sweet wine often turn woman sour." Charlie Chan in Rio (1941)

Charlie Chan's one of my favorites.

The new Quarry books by Max Allan Collins is easily the most sleeziest i have read when it comes sex. Quarry is upfront about how he wants sex, how he sees the women he wants to sleep with. Refereshing.

I am reading Getting Off: A Novel of Sex and Violence right now and it is easily the sleaziest, trashiest thing I have read in some time. As it was written by Lawrence Block, it is the most well written sleazy, trashy novel I have ever read as well.

Sounds very good.

I think this is thread should be for the good sleazy noirs and not just bad trashy books.

I have to say that after finishing Knockemstiff by Donald Ray Pollock, that it is the hands down champion of sleazy, trashy noir. So riveting and mesmerizing that you feel unclean when done.

join up, stroll through, and in five minutes a book jumps up and asks me to buy it. thanks so much! mohammed, just ordered 'quarry' - only $4.99 in ebook. he sounds like my kind of hit man.

(and purists - i am totally cool with debating paper vs. data. just not right now, i have a new book to read).

I loved the Quarry books, too. He really is a great hit man.

Quarry is the first hitman series and he is so nasty that its a bit uncomfortable reading from his POV sometimes.

gert The First Quarry by Hard Case Crime is the perfect place to start. The newer Quarry books is better than the old ones.

Mohammed wrote: "Quarry is the first hitman series..."

First, really?

yes, i did some research - the 'first quarry' was written afterwards, but it's described as quarry's beginnings. but i started with book 1 anyway.

well, i finished it ten minutes ago - and lurved it. debating whether to hit the second one right away, or do some more digging here and find something else. wait, i just decided. delayed gratification for new books. yep, straight to quarry's list... or maybe the first quarry. will contemplate that while doing some actual work (you know, to pay for all these books!)

gert wrote: "yes, i did some research - the 'first quarry' was written afterwards, but it's described as quarry's beginnings. but i started with book 1 anyway.

well, i finished it ten minutes ago - and lurved..."

I read First Quarry, Middle Quarry written in 2000s first before last year/months i went back and read the reprintings of the first 3 70s Quarry books. Max Allan Collins is of course much better writer 30-40 years later than first 70s Quarry he wrote when he was in college.

Biggest difference is the new Quarry books from 2000s is much more sleazy, nastier character, more amoral, more hardcore, better Hitman.

Jim wrote: "Mohammed wrote: "Quarry is the first hitman series..."

First, really?"

Parker inspired Quarry as Collins said but the criminal noir series before Quarry was about heist, criminals that wasnt hitman. Of course there were earlier Hitman books but they weren't a series.

I guess since Bond & Matt Helm are government sanctioned hit men, they're different?

Jim wrote: "I guess since Bond & Matt Helm are government sanctioned hit men, they're different?"

Yeah Bond and co are in spy genre because they are legal paid to kill. That tradition is older than crime,noir hitman.

They have to follow rules, Bond are paid to mind play, control assets often.

Hmmm... that's a fine line to walk & I don't completely agree. Bond was primarily a spy & authorized to kill, so I'll grant you his title of spy, but Helm always made a point that he wasn't. His primary mission was to kill, everything else was secondary, so I disagree to sticking him in that same pigeonhole.

I don't see who pays as that big a defining point, especially since Helm kills government employees on a fairly regular basis & is friendly with some parts of the Mafia. Nor was he above toppling a regime & taking out targets for his own ends. No, I'd say Quarry was very much like a freelance, younger generation Helm. Probably why I liked him so well.

Jim wrote: "Hmmm... that's a fine line to walk & I don't completely agree. Bond was primarily a spy & authorized to kill, so I'll grant you his title of spy, but Helm always made a point that he wasn't. His ..."

Frankly i dont know Helm books at all. I didnt finish the one i tried. I dont know if he is like Bond or like Quarry.

I thought you said he was like Bond. I thought he was a spy assassin like Bond just because you mentioned him in the same sentence.

Mohammed wrote: "...I thought you said he was like Bond. I thought he was a spy assassin like Bond just because you mentioned him in the same sentence."

I explained the difference in my last message, #41. Marketing folks often called him the American James Bond & there were a lot of similarities, just as there are with Quarry. That's why I was questioning your statement that Quarry was the first hit man series. IMO, Helm was very similar & he predated Quarry by a decade or so. Bond was even earlier, but since he was primarily a spy first, I can see your point. I can't with Helm.

What did mean by, ...Bond are paid to mind play, control assets often.? I don't understand that.

Jim wrote: "Mohammed wrote: "...I thought you said he was like Bond. I thought he was a spy assassin like Bond just because you mentioned him in the same sentence."

I explained the difference in my last messa..."

Well than it seems like Max Allan Collins wasnt correct when he said Querry was first or maybe he thought Helm was in another genre.

I meant Bond books i have read are more about an agent send to take care of problem in a spy way. Work with CIA, deal with assets, find out the what the bad guys is after. He isnt an assassin first. He just happens to kill bad guys in his work.

You are correct about Helm, he sounds like a hitman like Quarry.

Whether you like him or not, there's no denying that Max Allan Collins is a relentless self-promoter. He would be the last person to take into account Matt Helm's similarities to an independent contract killer when describing his own series as the "first hit man series."

Oh, Collins made the statement. Yeah, that does make a difference. I hadn't realized he was a big self promoter, but it's understandable. He needs to make a living.

I can see the point about genre too, though. Most people do lump Helm in as spy novels, but that's one reason I don't care much for all these genres. They're a rough indicator, at best. I've seen all sorts of silly arguments about them. I can't even decide if I should shelve some books as fact or fiction, which is why I have a middlin' shelf for philosophy, religion & mythology.

Jim wrote: "Oh, Collins made the statement. Yeah, that does make a difference. I hadn't realized he was a big self promoter, but it's understandable. He needs to make a living.

I can see the point about ge..."

I dont care much for all the genres either, other than thinking hmm i feel for certain type of book. I follow authors most. I read Bond because of Fleming and Quarry,Parker and co becuase i like Stark,Collins writing. I feel for writing styles or their character rather than genres.

Stark House Press recently released a two-fer featuring two "sleaze" novels by Orrie Hitt. The titles are THE CHEATERS and DIAL "M" FOR MAN. I've read The Cheaters and it follows the noir formula about a no-good babe getting a patsy all up in a twist in effort to get him to kill her husband. He runs a bar near the docks and has his hands full with a crooked cop shaking him down because of the prostitutes hanging around the bar. It's entertaining. Some of his novels are available on Kindle. The original paperbacks are rather collectible.

The Big Nowhere by James Ellroy. You will need to take a shower

Sleasiest noir novels I've read lately are "Gang Girl" and "Sex Bum," a double published by Starkhouse, and written by SF master Robert Silverberg (as Don Elliott). Others not to be missed are "The Cheaters" and "Too Hot to Handle" by Orrie Hitt. Gil Brewer and Day Keene also wrote some great sleasy Gold Medal novels.

Probably not noir, more horror genre - Edward Lee's The Bighead wasn't very pleasant.

Nasty, gross, vile........bit repetitive and boring by the time you reach the end

When I grow up, I want to be on this list.

In the meantime, while the whole book is not *the* trashiest I've read, the "old people three-way and cocaine snorting" scenes in Crumley's THE FINAL COUNTRY are just way out there. And great.

Anthony wrote: "When I grow up, I want to be on this list.

In the meantime, while the whole book is not *the* trashiest I've read, the "old people three-way and cocaine snorting" scenes in Crumley's THE FINAL COU..."

Maybe your autobiography when you publish it, makes the cut!

Ha. My autobio will be *dull*, man. That's why I think up sleazy stories.

One of the trashiest I've read is Crooked Little Vein by Warren Ellis.

Apparently, the Founding Fathers wrote a second, secret Constitution of the U.S. and it was lost by Richard Nixon at a whorehouse. The current President's Chief of Staff (who just happens to be a heroin addict) hires Michael McGill, a burned out PI, to track down this secret document. Wacky hijinks (mainly involving sexual fetishes like, say, godzilla bukkake porn) ensue.