Creative Reviews discussion

Hello Everyone, Do you ever feel like a plastic bag? Blowing in the wind..im kidding im kidding, I do have a question though..Do you ever feel that you know you have so much to do but you feel so burned out trying to do it? This is where I am at. I devoted today to promoting and will need to the next 2 months but I feel so tired and done with it cause I know ive been doing it and I dont feel im reaching people..ugh! I will try not to make this a blog post but end it with this..Is there any way to just get stuff done and have the mind stay clear? I sure would love to do this..

They say half of being successful is just showing up.

now, i don't know who they are and there have been plenty of times where I kept showing up and nothing ever got better, but I gotta think that if you don't show up then nothing ever gets better.

Marketing sucks. Pretty much everything after you type that last period sucks. But you gotta do it.

As for the burn out feeling, maybe take a day completely off and see what happens. Chances are, you'll feel internal pressure to go do what you need to do with the marketing. By the next day, you might be itching to hit the marketing trail again.

Just my thoughts. I burn out on this whole writing thing four times a day lol.

Splitter

Mark wrote: "Justin wrote: "Hello Everyone, Do you ever feel like a plastic bag? Blowing in the wind..im kidding im kidding, I do have a question though..Do you ever feel that you know you have so much to do bu..."

Im glad im not the only one whos only sold one copy of his book once! lol. But ur right who would have thought? If only someone told me in the beginning what to do maybe i would have done more, now im doing more to just make up for what i didnt!

C.S. Splitter wrote: "They say half of being successful is just showing up.

now, i don't know who they are and there have been plenty of times where I kept showing up and nothing ever got better, but I gotta think that..."

I take days off but then its right back to feeling like im posting the same stuff, unless new people show up im writing to the same people..ehh i guess ur right you just gotta keep showing up..let em know right?

to ease the burn out, write the next book. Personally, I don't care for one-shot-wonders. If you don't show me you can write another, I'll never buy your book. But that's just me! :-)
Happy writing (and forget the marketing for a minute, you're a writer, get down and WRITE!!!!)

If it's any help, I spent from March to about July doing all the time I could find on every possible form of advertising, to very little effect. Then I decided the thing to do was to give up on the marketing apart from a bare minimum and get on and write the next couple.

And tbh my sales trickle along, and the marketing seems to have very little effect on them. I think that people kind of see your stuff around and after a few times they might go have a look but the first few times they probably won't. Even if you make it free you might have a load of downloads but only one in one hundred actually come back and look at your other stuff.

BUT nothing is instant and in this game it really, really does seem that the more books you have up there the better your chances are. Look at all the "overnight successes" we hear about. Amanda Hocking had 7 books online when she got successful, so her "overnight" was actually more like a couple of years.

I think the important thing is to make your product the absolute best you can, maybe stick with only doing marketing three days a week or only doing a couple of places or whatever it takes to make it constant and ongoing but at a low enough level to keep ticking over - and then spend the rest of the time writing more.

Remember that we're not going away, there's no time-limit, and your book will still be online ticking away when you're 65!! The other thing to note is that the chances of getting a bestseller with one book are small; but the chances of making a little bit of money on your book are much, much higher, so if you have several books trickling along you can probably do quite nicely out of it, thank you!

So don't worry! Try the marketing but don't kill yourself doing it; get writing the next book (or if you have too much booked, at least get thinking about it), and bear in mind that this book is the pebble. The avalanche is a little further along the line....

Lastly, and getting off my soapbox, there was a comment on Joe Konrath's blog on the nature of success which you might like to have a look at: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/09...

The comment that came in the other day was from an author called Kathleen Valentine who said:

"I started publishing in 2006 after writing for 20 years and trying to get published through conventional means. I wrote blogged, I promoted, I joined online forums, I marketed like crazy, I wrote 14 books and my sales were pitiful.

In September 2011 I got lucky and sold 1000 books. In October I got luckier and sold 3,000. December was my luckiest month and I sold 8,400. So far January looks like my luckiest month yet with 7,000 so far and 2 weeks to go.

It's all about writing good books and luck."

But the point that I took away from the post is that the successful writers are the ones who, when luck happens upon them, have a back catalogue of books to catch and keep it with!

So for myself, that's what I'm working on.

Last thought: marketing is probably effective in direct proportion to how many books you have out there. After all, when it works and someone comes to check out your books, with a range they're far more likely to find something to intrigue and hold their attention, and actually buy in the first place.... then if they like it, they can invest in all the others.

Upon which note, I'm back to my editing.
Sigh.
JAC

Well said, J.A.! My point exactly, just said better!
What is the best marketing tool for your book? YOUR NEXT BOOK!
So go and write it! :-D

Being a reader, I'm much more drawn to authors that I can get to know more personally and that gives me a better idea of what the books might be like. I like knowing their mindset and the "tone" they meant to set when they wrote it.

So put yourself out there but don't kill yourself with stressing the marketing. It will happen when it happens and then you'll have TONS of reward!

JAC's post was right on too! :)

Sara the Atchless

Most of the authors I've spoken to who seem to have a good deal of success have multiple books out, and usually a series or two.

I have mixed feelings about the success of marketing on places like Goodreads. Judging by the number of ratings I have here, it looks like about 1% of people who have bought the book are on this site. Two percent at the most. Besides initially requesting reviews for my first book, I haven't actively marketed.

I'm not saying don't market here (or other places), I've just come to realize the bulk of readers never refer to reader sites or blogs or forums. It seems like time is better spent writing more books. :)

J.A. wrote: "If it's any help, I spent from March to about July doing all the time I could find on every possible form of advertising, to very little effect. Then I decided the thing to do was to give up on the..."

All good advice, I think.

I've written five novels over the last twoyears and haven't attempted to market or publish any of them yet. When they're ready -- I hope by the end of this March -- the idea is that having a body of work will combine with the various marketing approaches.

A online friend of mine, Ruth Cardello, is doing very well by having two from a series ready, then giving away the first.

Wow guys thank you for all the advice! I have considered writing a new book and have started on it and my father even suggested I write another so I guess the verdict is I write a new book eh? lol. Your all right, just take it slow pick a couple days, write a new book and make sure you just go at a steady pace, dont stress yourself over it, thats what I shall try to not do.

Barbara wrote: "Well said, J.A.! My point exactly, just said better!
What is the best marketing tool for your book? YOUR NEXT BOOK!
So go and write it! :-D"

As you know Barbara, I have PublishAmerica, so If I do write another book, I am going with a different company to publish it cause i sure as hell am not going through the B.S they r giving me already again!

There's a great post somewhere .....oooh damn, I wish I could find the link. It's a comic and fiction author's take on the difference between an "author" and a "writer."

If I find it I'll post, as it's very relevant, but the essence is this: A writer is compelled to write, all the time. He writes, he tries to sell it, he writes, he tries to sell it, he writes....

An "author" writes one thing, spends years fretting over every syllable and championing it, ever waiting for the day when someone will recognize his or her genius.

Meanwhile, the writer -- the person who's doing it for the love of writing -- keeps writing. And gets better. And has more stories to try and sell. And smartly keeps contacts along the way. And gets better. And keeps writing ... etc.

Writers are happy. Authors usually aren't.

Justin wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Well said, J.A.! My point exactly, just said better!
What is the best marketing tool for your book? YOUR NEXT BOOK!
So go and write it! :-D"

As you know Barbara, I have PublishAme..."

I sure hope so, Justin! Please check Dean Wesley Smith's book Think like a publisher for advice - it's free on his blog. And he's the guy who talks about writer vs.author in his New World of Publishing series L.H. mentions. All of it at www.deanwesleysmith.com!

L.H. wrote: "There's a great post somewhere .....oooh damn, I wish I could find the link. It's a comic and fiction author's take on the difference between an "author" and a "writer."

If I find it I'll post, as..."

http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=6190

Barbara wrote: "L.H. wrote: "There's a great post somewhere .....oooh damn, I wish I could find the link. It's a comic and fiction author's take on the difference between an "author" and a "writer."

If I find it ..."

Ah, thanks for the link. This is really interesting.

Yes, focus on the writing! My goal is to get two more romantic suspense novels out this year (for a total of four) and then to take some time to focus more seriously on promotion. With four books, every time I get a sale, it could lead to three more sales. Plus, if one book doesn't appeal to someone, maybe one of the others will. With only one book, even if you can interest someone, that's just one sale and they'll forget you before you get another one out. You also look more serious with a body of work.

My sales have slowly risen so that I'm making over $100 a month, on four books (two romantic suspense, one children's book, and the writing guide Advanced Plotting). I'm doing promotion when it's convenient, and of course occasionally mentioning the books on my social networks, but I only have so much time and energy so I'm devoting that to writing my next book (and doing paid work). That also gives me time to learn more about marketing, so I can be more effective, and to get reviews up for the books that are now out.

We can't control sales. We can control our work. Focus on that or you could quickly go mad trying to follow all the tips on publicity and seeing little result.

By the way, I did a blog post this week on "Career Choices in Publishing," http://chriseboch.blogspot.com/ discussing why I decided to go indie after 12 traditionally published books. Next week I'm going to discuss my decision to write shorter books. Maybe I'll have to do a post on saving publicity until I have four books out.

Barbara wrote: "L.H. wrote: "There's a great post somewhere .....oooh damn, I wish I could find the link. It's a comic and fiction author's take on the difference between an "author" and a "writer."

If I find it ..."

Fab link, guys!!
JAC

Glad to hear others are in the same boat. I'd say the marketing is harder than the actual writing. And now the question is how much of my limited do I devote to marketing (which feels like trying to roll a boulder uphill) and how much do I spend writing my next book? If only there were more hours in a day!

Cindy wrote: "Glad to hear others are in the same boat. I'd say the marketing is harder than the actual writing. And now the question is how much of my limited do I devote to marketing (which feels like trying t..."

some say if you spend one hour a week marketing it's too much. Again, your best marketing tool is your next book. So have a writing (and publishing, if your indie) schedule and forget the marketing.
I've just sold a short story (under another pen-name) that I put on Smashwords 2 days ago with no advertizing whatsoever except posting the cover on my FB author page - but that pen-name has no blog, no FB profile, no nothing.
How's that for marketing techniques, huh? ;-)

Cindy wrote: "Glad to hear others are in the same boat. I'd say the marketing is harder than the actual writing. And now the question is how much of my limited do I devote to marketing (which feels like trying t..."

Most people say to write the next book but try every other day to promote your current book..thats what im trying to do.

Mark wrote: "never having to market or spending only 1 hour a week on it would be great but you could write 50 books every year, every one better than the last.. you could be the greatest writer in history but ..."

Mark, when you have 50 books out with your name on it, they will pop up on Amazon or other search sites, and someone will discover you. You only have to be patient.

And again, the best marketing is writing the next book. When you have 50 out, that's 50 free ads of your work.

Now get back to writing, you lazy writers! ;-)

I hate spamming. I hate self-promotion. I hate the need to do it at all. I've gone through massive burn out in the last year but indie writing picked me up. A few days ago I experienced cold feet, I'm sure I will again. But now I've dived back into my own little world (fixing and polishing my finished novella), outside sound is muffled.

I've always felt the most uplifted when I'm in the middle of writing a story. It's a time of endless possibilities. I agree with the others, go immerse yourself in your writing and close the door to the external stresses for a while.

:) Georgina.

Since self-publishing my own book I have suffered this many times. That is why I decided to work harder on getting my book traditionally published. It is more beneficial to me to transfer that energy into getting a publishing contract because self marketing takes a lot of work and often doesn't go far.

What did help my sales was getting to know people through communities and building a personality on my blog.

There's a lot of great stuff in this thread, much encouragement! I think one of the best pieces of advice I've read here was a cure for the depression caused by book promotion: write another book! I think Barbara was the one who wrote that. You know it works! I definitely feel better when I stop worrying about (nearly non-existent) sales and just write.

Yeah, the best thing to do is to keep up what positive things you are doing right and try not to overload yourself. Write the next work but be casual about it, don't feel like you gotta rush it or put everything into just cause you gotta help the current struggling work you already have out. It's all about time and patience which in this case i do have i don't in other situations however.
it is best to make your presence known but in a respective way and not spam yourself(although sometimes one can't help it! lol). Key phrase here: Stay positive.

Justin wrote: "Yeah, the best thing to do is to keep up what positive things you are doing right and try not to overload yourself. Write the next work but be casual about it, don't feel like you gotta rush it or ..."

Yes, and we are all in this together. That's a huge thing. I don't think writers had support from other writers in such a way before. It's the upside of the indie online presence.

I don't review indie books anymore. I decided to opt out of the arena. As fellow indie writer I think it can backfire, both on the writer whose work I've reviewed, and possibly on me. But I do pitch books I've really enjoyed or am looking forward to reading, on my indie book blog. I added yours this morning as a book I'm looking forward to reading, which is true as I love dark poetry.

Hopefully it will help in some way and I'm always happier pitching another writer's work rather than my own.

:) Georgina.


http://www.georginaannetaylor.com/2/c...

I think it's easier to write a blurb for someone else than our own...

Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "Yeah, the best thing to do is to keep up what positive things you are doing right and try not to overload yourself. Write the next work but be casual about it, don't feel like you go..."

Thank you for your interest Georgina. I get your idea though, i review now but only cause I feel it creates a way for others to read my book but i also see your view, it can backfire or you'd just rather let your work do the talking and what not.

Barbara wrote: "I think it's easier to write a blurb for someone else than our own..."

VERY true.

Splitter

I hate to add a cause for heart burn but, if you haven't seen it elsewhere, GR is losing their feed from amazon on Jan 30. Click on your books to see if they need to be "rescued" and follow the instructions so that if you imported your Kindle version from amazon (who didn't?) it won't be lost from GR.

Justin wrote: "Georgina wrote: "Justin wrote: "Yeah, the best thing to do is to keep up what positive things you are doing right and try not to overload yourself. Write the next work but be casual about it, don't..."

I have so many tabs open at the moment--facebook, my web stats, Gr (multi threads), amazon--that I get confused and can't find where I am!

Re reviews, there are many arguments about the point, see this thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7...

It gives a pretty clear picture of the perils.

Readers can view indie writers reviews (of other writer's work) with suspicion. If you give a glowing review, they may think you are trying to smooze (with thoughts of possible return). If you rate it low, they may think (and so can the writer whose book you've reviewed) that you are trying to denote the other so that you look good instead.

So it can backfire. There's also been some very heated interchanges between indie writers and reviewers lately. I'm not going near it! Instead, if I use my indie book blog (which I set up is a result of my decision not to review anymore) to recommend books to potential readers, I'm doing essentially the same thing as reviewing, but I'm not entering into the amazon, smashwords, barnes and noble etc stats, which is also at question.

Sorry if this post is a little scattered. It's very early, everyone else is asleep. I need my third cup of coffee.

And yes, Barb, I agree, it's easier (and feels better somehow) to write blurbs about other people's books. I really hate spamming. I regret the fact that I've had to become a self-promotion hussy. I'm not very good at it, I've given up posting my book in groups (not that I did it much anyway).

I'm getting lots of downloads at the moment and I know for a fact it's because they are free. It will be a different kettle of fish (where did that saying come from I wonder?) when I release my novella with a price on it. Hah! Then I will have to readjust to silent dashboards.

Georgina.

Janiera wrote: "Since self-publishing my own book I have suffered this many times. That is why I decided to work harder on getting my book traditionally published. It is more beneficial to me to transfer that ene..."

I think small presses are adjusting to the changing times.

I tried two by myself, after I left my agent. Pantera Press and Immanion Press. Both responded personally and instantly to my initial enquiry. Both responded within a month (their policies) with personal and polite declines.

I found them to be refreshing after doing the trad rounds--even through an agent it can take up to four or five months for decisions. Without an agent it can take up to nine months in Australia, and you can't send your manuscript to other publishers until they have accepted or declined it. Years can be wasted (yes I wasted years).

But I know what you mean, Janiera. For years I was hoping for that fairy godmother to come along and with a wave of her magic wand, transform my novel into a belle fit for the ball. But here I am, having to stitch and sew my gown myself, and looking at my pumpkin wondering how I'm ever going to make it into a worthy carriage.

:) Georgina.

Actually, I do have the help now of some very talented seamstresses.

Lee wrote: "I hate to add a cause for heart burn but, if you haven't seen it elsewhere, GR is losing their feed from amazon on Jan 30. Click on your books to see if they need to be "rescued" and follow the ins..."

Why?

Lee wrote: "I hate to add a cause for heart burn but, if you haven't seen it elsewhere, GR is losing their feed from amazon on Jan 30. Click on your books to see if they need to be "rescued" and follow the ins..."

Lee, do you think that entering the Smashwords link (that has also the mobi/Kindle version) would "save" our books?

Barbara wrote: "Lee wrote: "I hate to add a cause for heart burn but, if you haven't seen it elsewhere, GR is losing their feed from amazon on Jan 30. Click on your books to see if they need to be "rescued" and fo..."

And why are GR losing their feed?

I think Amazon is doing war on everybody else... so it's probably Amazon's fault (we like to blame it on Amazon, mwhahahah). Anyway, GR doesn't give an explanation, it only says "help us save your book". When I first joined, there was also Barnes&Nobles, but even them seem to have cut the feeds to GR... if they set up one with Smashwords, I'd be the happiest author! :-)

Barbara wrote: "I think Amazon is doing war on everybody else... so it's probably Amazon's fault (we like to blame it on Amazon, mwhahahah). Anyway, GR doesn't give an explanation, it only says "help us save your ..."

I'm liking amazon more and more, now that my dashboard's come to life. Strange thing to do though, GR must generate many, many sales through amazon. And yes, wouldn't it be good to have all the links?

By the way, anyone know when we will get out kobo and apple figures in? Smashwords received them a few days ago I think (slightly off topic).

:) Georgina.

Can someone please explain the "amazon feed' thing? i have received no email...

Splitter

C.S. Splitter wrote: "Can someone please explain the "amazon feed' thing? i have received no email...

Splitter"

Me neither. Waiting for Lee's reply.

Barbara wrote: "Lee, do you think that entering the Smashwords link (that has also the mobi/Kindle version) would "save" our books?

I'm not Lee, but I am a Goodreads Librarian. Yes that is perfectly acceptable.

I thought all of you guys knew about this, this amazon "feed" thing. Links time!

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7... -- mostly for Librarians

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7... -- mostly for authors

Try not to panic, though. Okay, panic a little, but all will be well. Splitter, no email have been sent. It's mainly a Librarian thing even though it will affect all users... yeah, that's not really a satisfactory answer but it's the only one I got for now. *shrug*

Experiment wrote: "Barbara wrote: "Lee, do you think that entering the Smashwords link (that has also the mobi/Kindle version) would "save" our books?

I'm not Lee, but I am a Goodreads Librarian. Yes that is perfec..."

Thanks, reading up on it now. I'll go and have a look at my books and see if they need rescuing.

All mine say edition via smashwords. So that should be fine shouldn't it?

Georgina wrote: "All mine say edition via smashwords. So that should be fine shouldn't it?"

Yes.

Experiment wrote: "Georgina wrote: "All mine say edition via smashwords. So that should be fine shouldn't it?"

Yes."

:):)

Umm what are we even talking about here?

Justin wrote: "Umm what are we even talking about here?"

Lee wrote: "I hate to add a cause for heart burn but, if you haven't seen it elsewhere, GR is losing their feed from amazon on Jan 30. Click on your books to see if they need to be "rescued" and follow the instructions so that if you imported your Kindle version from amazon (who didn't?) it won't be lost from GR."

Experiment wrote: "I'm not Lee, but I am a Goodreads Librarian. Yes that is perfectly acceptable.

I thought all of you guys knew about this, this amazon "feed" thing. Links time!

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7769... -- mostly for Librarians

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/7773... -- mostly for authors

Try not to panic, though. Okay, panic a little, but all will be well. Splitter, no email have been sent. It's mainly a Librarian thing even though it will affect all users... yeah, that's not really a satisfactory answer but it's the only one I got for now. *shrug* "

Check your book because GR is losing it's amazon feed. Is your book available elsewhere, other editions through your publisher? You just have to make sure your book is not one of the ones that needs rescuing. For example my fantasy short story is available through both smashwords (and therefore the rest) and amazon, so I make sure the smashwords edition is registered here with goodreads. I'm sure Experiment can explain this better than me though.

I'll go and have a look at your book now.

(sorry had to edit this, spelling mistake)
(had to edit twice, more mistakes--too tired)

Justin wrote: "Umm what are we even talking about here?"

Your book looks fine to me, it's the edition through your publisher, not the amazon link (I think I've got it right).

:) Georgina.

Oh ok, yeah my book isnt going anywhere lol