Debates of all sorts discussion

Well, some people think that suicide, self-harm, cutting etc., are needed because they think their sucks. The pain is because they're having a real tough time going through whatever happened to them or someone close that has to do with them or something like that. No one helps or people and they turn the help away. Or they won't admit they're in pain. Also, they might not know what's going on or want to tell someone.

Suicide is most likely because they think that they have the worst life the world and they want the pain to go away. Forever. That's the only way that they think will work.

Exactly my point. How do you do bullets?

Oh, darn it.

Its fine.

No. But the thing is, I'm tempted to cut....

I cut myself as a teenager, and now I'm left with large ugly scars that serve as constant reminders of the pain that led me to cut to begin with.

I very much wish that I had found a better way to deal with my problems, a less permanent outlet...so, don't do it! try writing, music, video games, or sports- anything other than scarring yourself...or self-medicating, don't do that either.

I don't know what to say about this.

I know soooo many people that cut. It's sad. I can't necessarily say that it is or isn't justified because it's just one of those things that can't be.

Of course it's caused by some form of desperation and sadness. I don't know why people want to hurt themselves. I've always thought maybe it was from some sort of guilt, whether or not a person is aware of it.

I don't want to say to much and offend anybody, but yeah.

I can't stand when I see friends hurt themselves... My one friend does so with like paperclips but never very deep (she actually usually gives herself minor burns with candles) and she almost just acts like it's no big deal... It's hard seeing her do that...

I don't like the concept at all, I personally love life, I'm not a depressed person at all.

Aleph wrote: "I can't imagine why you would want to do such a thing.....
I can't understand it...."

I believe in my case it was due to a very oppressive and complicated home life coupled with a lack of coping mechanisms. I think there's a variety of reasons and motivations for doing it, perhaps in my case for a...sense of control? and a sort of relief? I'm still not entirely sure...

but as I said, I now wish that I hadn't done it- and I hope that someone else may be able to learn from my mistakes instead of the hard way.

Rachel wrote: "Raven wrote: "No. But the thing is, I'm tempted to cut...."

Please don't! It doesn't just hurt you and leave scars on you. It hurts everyone around you that you know. I've cried before, thinking a..."

Fine. I'll try not to.

I guess.

Aleph wrote: "why turn to self harm? There are other ways....I don't have any friends that hurt themselves (Or not that I know of) but if I did.... I wouldn't be bale to stand by and watch. I'm not accusing anybody of anything- don't take it that way.
I'm just..... confused..."

well, in most situations, there probably are other ways- that's why I suggested to raven that she do her best with writing, music, video games, sports, etc. in my situation, however, I didn't have those options- I wasn't really allowed to listen to music, watch tv, play video games, read books, talk on the phone, go anywhere, or do anything. I got drugs when I could (still bad, but at least a little more understandable in the eyes of others) and cut myself when I was about to go insane and had nowhere else to turn...and both "solutions" have left their scars on me.

also, in my case- and some others, I believe- self-harm had nothing to do with suicide...they aren't always connected. I was probably in more danger of becoming homicidal than suicidal.

as for if you had a friend that engaged in self-harm, what exactly would you do instead of standing by? tell on them? that might end up costing you a friend, or- at the very least- their trust in you. it's more complicated than you would think. I do agree that if you had reason to think they might commit suicide, you might be forced to tell on them- but, like I said, they're not always connected. so, if you're ever in that situation (and I hope you never have to go through that), think twice and tread carefully...

Rachel wrote: "My mom saw a disturbing text that my friend sent me and called the school's worthless counsellors. It was quite messy. But if telling an adult could save your friend's life, it's worth it, even if ..."

well, hey, that actually probably worked out for the best, for that particular situation (your fear for your friend's life seems to have been warranted)- someone found out but you didn't really have to tell. did your friend get help? has she stopped (since your last post about it)?

but, I will repeat that it's not always connected to suicide. and IF it's not- and therefore is not endangering their life (if there's a chance it is, of course this would not apply)- telling would probably only make it worse for them. in such a situation, I would suggest just talking to your friend, doing research, trying to understand it, and trying to find out how to help w/o just getting them in trouble (which, btw, someone did to me- it made everything much much worse). b/c, really, if someone is having that much trouble coping with their life already, then losing a good friend, feeling betrayed, and suffering humiliation is NOT going to help (especially as so many counselors are, as you say, worthless)...

My friend is anorexic and cuts herself. I try and help her with the anorexia - I used to be anorexic - but I've never really cut, and it's really scary and sad....

I'm not exactly sure what the debate is, here. I think cutting/suicide may be "justified" in the sense that the person in question has reasons behind what they do. But obviously, I don't think it's a healthy way to deal with problems.

I've never really harmed myself, but there have been times when I understood the motivation behind it––usually because I wanted to punish myself for some reason. I have pretty low self-esteem, so there's this little voice in my head that often tells me I'm a stupid ugly failure and so forth, and it's times like that when I felt like hurting myself. But I never have ... Instead I've always found it more beneficial to go do something constructive and/or creative to get out my frustration. But, it may not be as easy for everyone.

I had a friend in middle school who started cutting in eighth grade. There were also rumors that she'd tried to hang herself in one of the school bathrooms... although, I don't know. She claimed it was just because people heard her making choking noises in the bathroom stall or something. But anyway ... instead of reaching out to her, I got kind of freaked out and stopped being friends with her. She's okay now, but I always felt bad about it. :/

Yeah, well-bloody done Rache.
Plus I thought this was a group for debates- not feelin' sorry for yourself or nuffink. Just saying.

I know its wrong to cut. Some people like they have to get rid of their hurt.

Zack wrote: "Yeah, well-bloody done Rache.
Plus I thought this was a group for debates- not feelin' sorry for yourself or nuffink. Just saying."

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to have a pity party. I just thought that, since I'm apparently the only person here who has first-hand experience with it, and since part of the question was WHY people do it, I would try to shed some light on the subject...my apologies.

thank you, rachel! :)
I'm just glad I didn't come across as whiny to everyone...

Kirby: You definitely didn't, and this is a subject well worth discussing.

Rachel (in reply to 28): Yeah, that's basically what everyone says :P I'd just feel terrible betraying her trust if it got to that point....

Zack wrote: "Yeah, well-bloody done Rache.
Plus I thought this was a group for debates- not feelin' sorry for yourself or nuffink. Just saying."

Now Zack, personal experiences can be a good tool to use in debate. Lighten up man. I won't be to hard on you because I'm a huge jerk sometimes :P

Rachel wrote: "♥ Rachel♥ wrote: "Kirby: You definitely didn't, and this is a subject well worth discussing.

Rachel (in reply to 28): Yeah, that's basically what everyone says :P I'd just feel terrible betraying ..."

:P Yeah, I know...>.<

I'm a cynical person. I sit alone in my house. I stare at people across the street in the park. I pick under my fingernails and contemplate the next tragedy in my novel. I don't believe "it gets better". I never told anyone about the time I tried to commit suicide. Apparently a small cup of Pine Sol isn't enough to get the deed done. Anyway. Obviously I'm over it now. I don't know why people commit suicide. I just think it's because they really don't think there's a way up for them. That's how I felt. I didn't think I'd ever escape from my seemingly bottomless depression and anxiety. And I was sick of nobody noticing or even asking if I was okay. I'm still cynical. I still don't believe "it gets better". And still, nobody notices or asks if I'm doing okay. I still have anxiety issues. Among other things. But I'd never try suicide again. I don't really know why. I can't give anyone a reason. It's not because I'm stable, or doing better. I'm doing a little worse, actually.

Maybe it's because... I just want to see how it all plays out. You know. The end. I think that I'd be cheating myself a little bit. I want to see what the universe has in store for me. Or what I have in store for it.

Guys. I just want to say this.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DON'T HURT YOURSELF.

You are all special and wonderful and nobody deserves the pain you might be going through.

It hurts me so much to see people saying they cut or harm their selves and other things.

I know this isn't really a debate thing, but I just want to say that.

Keep on moving on.

You're wonderful.

Its hard for me to believe that anymore. I know some say they have a worse life, but I don't know. Its hard. I don't do self harm because only then would my parents want to know about my life and actually pay attention to me. But they don't now....... They don't do anything if someone's mean to me.

=( I wish I could make it better.

Maybe.... Don't know.

As long as it's contained within the topic, there's not really a problem with it....
Plus, there's really not much to debate, I mean, who thinks self-harm or suicide are good? :P

I kind of do. It depends.

I used to cut, I started while at university, the first time out in the real world, and it went on for few years. Then one day a very good friend of mine asked me why I did it, and I gave him a reason (you'll have to forgive me, the details are gone from my memory, but the overall message remains), and he said "but you can do x, y and z for that (obviously, he didn't say x,y and z, he gave real answers), so why do you cut?" So I thought, and I gave another reason, and again he said "but theres counselling available, you can talk to people, there are drugs for depression, so why do you cut?", and this went on with my reasons getting weaker and weaker, and eventually I burst into tears, and said "because its easier to cut than to do all of those things".

Now, this won't be the way for everyone, some people will still do it even with all the help available, and it makes me feel sad that this is the case, as that means their issues are even worse and more debilitating than mine were and are, but it was a moment of revelation for me, and from that day I stopped doing it, and started doing something pro-active about it instead. It also taught me that its very important for each and every person to have someone they can talk to, whether a family member, a friend, a doctor, or someone at the end of the Samaritans hotline.

I've known one person who committed suicide, and I still don't understand the reasons for it, he must have just felt there was no way out, but the aftermath meant that his kids, and his girlfriend and her daughter (not his) had their lives shattered. To me, suicide is the ultimate selfish act, even though I consider it on occasion, I'm glad that so far my brain gives me a kick about it, and means that thinking is all I do, I don't think I could imagine how bad it must be to do it, as I've hit some pretty damned low moments in my life, and still not considered it a truly viable option.

I know, its sort of useless.

I started cutting to make the pain disappear even if it was only for a few minutes. I cut to make me disconnect from my emotions. Cutting made life barable for me.

Raven wrote: "I kind of do. It depends."

Do you want to debate that?

Aleph wrote: "♥ Rachel♥ wrote: "As long as it's contained within the topic, there's not really a problem with it....
Plus, there's really not much to debate, I mean, who thinks self-harm or suicide are good? :P"..."

Yes, I agree. So we can leave it as a side-spam thing or delete it (probably best not to do that without Cody's permission, though :P).

Yeah, cutting can make some feel better. Take away pain and stuff. Its not technically wrong because everything has the right to do whatever they want with life.

That's untrue, a person isn't allowed to hurt others, and we tend not to let people hurt themselves either (suicide is illegal and all). Why should you be allowed to hurt yourself?

Where is suicide illegal? It certainly isn't here in the UK.

It is in Singapore
http://singaporelegaladvice.com/categ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_...

Yeah I know it's wiki, North Korea has an interesting response. But not illegal in the US, assisted suicide is a different matter.

Hazel wrote: "Where is suicide illegal? It certainly isn't here in the UK."

Nor here in the USA...

♥ Rachel♥ wrote: "That's untrue, a person isn't allowed to hurt others, and we tend not to let people hurt themselves either (suicide is illegal and all). Why should you be allowed to hurt yourself?"

Because its your own body..AND where are you that suicide is illegal?

It's not illegal in the US per-say, but by law they hold you in the hospital or transfer you to an institution for 48 hour observation, and if you resist, you will be treated like a criminal. They will taze you.

Singapore doesn't shock me. People get arrested for spitting over there.

Paul wrote: "Singapore doesn't shock me. People get arrested for spitting over there. ."

technically its illegal to spit on the street here, since the TB epidemic in the 70s.

euthanasia, I support it in principal, but would like to see what measures would be put in place to prevent unscrupulous people expecting an inheritance from using it to their advantage. I'm kinda of the opinion that if we can show that level of kindness in relieving our pets of pain etc in later life, from illness or from injury, why do we insist on our own elderly or infirm suffering the pain and indignity that comes with many of the conditions that we see all the time.

Aleph wrote: "I was just thinking the same, Nina. It's great that you are helping each other and whatnot- but maybe save it for a problems group?
Like these ones:
http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/5......"

Oh, I'm on the Complaint Box!

well, before the subject is completely changed, I just wanna throw out there that anyone who wants/needs to talk to someone who has experience in battling self-mutilation is more than welcome to message me at any time...

okay! so, now onto euthanasia...I think that it should be legal, but- as hazel said- it would have to be carefully regulated...it's a slippery slope...

Isn't euthanasia a completely different subject? I think Nina was just trying to guide people towards that topic since everyone seems to be agreeing on this topic right now. In other words, follow the link she gave and don't debate about euthanasia in this topic. ;)

I think we were discussing suicide more as in 'angsty teen offing themself' than the euthanasia sort. We definitely can create a different topic - in fact, I'll do that now.

I'm confused about this topic anyways. :\

Same here...

You know what, I'll be contradictory to get a debate going. This does not reflect my actual opinion -_-"

I believe that self harm and suicide should be a personal choice. It's your body, your life, and you should be able to do what you want to make yourself feel better.

well, actually I do kinda believe that..
when people hear selfharm or suicide they immediately jump to the conclusion that the person inflicting it is selfish..

I think people misconstrue the meaning of "selfish". Selfish to me is telling someone who is suffering in some way and wants to end their life that they can't because you will be lonely or them taking their life is "wrong" or "sinful".

"Life is like animal porn, it's not for everyone..." - Doug Stanhope