J.R.R. Tolkien discussion

I always assumed that Tolkien had put a lot himself in Bilbo. And he had said "I'm a hobbit in all but size". Recently I read the characters, Beren and Lúthien reflect the love of Tolkien and his wife Edith.

Tolkien and Edith had spent their free days walking in the country side, while he was in army. And after more than 50 years later he has said that, he can still remember how she sang and danced while he sat on the grass, spellbound. Edith's dance is said to have inspired his vision of the meeting of Beren and Lúthien.

Then I recently saw this:





They must've been such an amazing couple.

I first seen their headstone watching the Ringers documentary and I thought that it was so sweet. Of course, I had known prior to it that Professor Tolkien considered Edith to be his Luthien. But seeing the grave? Yeah.

Moon wrote: "I first seen their headstone watching the Ringers documentary and I thought that it was so sweet. Of course, I had known prior to it that Professor Tolkien considered Edith to be his Luthien. But s..."

What was the "Ringers" documentary??

It's my understanding that she was older than he was by a few years, and when they first met he was still (as an orphan) under a church guardianship and not allowed to see her until he came of age. When he was old enough to do as he pleased, he looked her up again, quite fearful that she would be married. But she wasn't and they picked up right where they'd left off. It was a great love that they shared for a lifetime.

Barbara wrote: "It's my understanding that she was older than he was by a few years, and when they first met he was still (as an orphan) under a church guardianship and not allowed to see her until he came of age...."

Interesting Babara, thanks for sharing. I see some similarities to Aragorn and Arwen's romance as well the whole orphan thing.

I think you'll find it interesting (I certainly do) When they met for the first time Lúthien had lived for thousands of years in the world already, Beren was young even by human standards.

144 human years = 1 elf year

Here's what I found.

Edith was three years older than John Ronald and she was not catholic. Concerned for his education, forbade him to see or have any contact with her until he was 21. Tolkien did not give up on his love, and the midnight beginning his 21st birthday, he wrote to her again, saying,

"How long will it be before we can be joined together before God and the world?".

When Edith replied that she was engaged to someone else, John Ronald quickly traveled to see her. Edith broke off the engagement and was engaged to “Ronald” when he was 22, after she became a Roman Catholic.

John Ronald wrote of his wife to his son Michael in a letter dated the 8th August 1941:

"…I fell in love with your mother at the age of eighteen. Quite genuinely, as has been shown - though of course defects of character and temperament have caused me often to fall below the ideal with which I started. Your mother was older than I, and not a Catholic. Altogether unfortunate, as viewed by a guardian…these things are absorbing and nervously exhausting. I was a very clever boy n the throws of work for (a very necessary) Oxford scholarship. The combined tensions nearly produced a breakdown. I muffed my exams and though…I ought to have got a good scholarship, I only landed by the skin of my teeth an exhibition of £60 at Exter…

“However, trouble arose and I had to choose between disobeying and grieving (or deceiving) a guardian who had been a father, more than most fathers, but without any obligation, and ‘dropping' the love-affair until I was 21. I don't regret my decision, though it was very hard on my lover. But that was not my fault. She was perfectly free and under no vow to me, and I should have had no just complaint…if she had got married to someone else. For nearly three years I did not see or write to my lover. It was extremely hard, painful and bitter, especially at first… I fell back into folly and slackness and misspent a good deal of my first year at College…

…On the night of my 21st birthday I wrote again to your mother - Jan. 3 1913. On Jan. 8th I went back to her and became engaged, and informed an astounded family."


What he wrote about her after her death:

On 29th November 1971 John Ronald wrote to William Carter

"I am grieved to tell you that my wife died this morning. Her courage and determination (of which you speak truly) carried her through to what seemed a recovery, but a sudden relapse occurred which she fought for nearly three days in vain. She died at last, in peace."

"I am utterly bereaved, and cannot yet lift up heart…"

Two months later on 24th January 1972, John Ronald wrote to his son Michael:

"…I do not feel quite real or whole, and in a sense there is no one to talk to… we had shared all joys and griefs, and all opinions (in agreement or otherwise) so that I often feel myself thinking ‘I must tell Edith about this' - and then suddenly I feel like a castaway left on a barren island under a heedless sky after the loss of a great ship…"

"…I met the Luthien Tinuviel of my own personal ‘romance' with her long dark hair, fair face and starry eyes, and beautiful voice…. But now she has gone before Beren, leaving him indeed one-handed, but he has no power to move the inexorable Mandos…"

Beren and Luthien, Arwen and Aragorn, Tolkien and Edith; they all are connected. I love how Tolkien put himself into his work (adding to the realism of it), making it not only so personal to himself but quite honest. There love story is one that tugs on the heartstrings of human emotion and which will live on forever, in regard to both human and immortal Elves!

Both Tolkien and Lewis had incredible "love stories". I'm sure things weren't always perfect, but it makes me happy that these two incredible men who left the world more beautiful for their stories had beautiful stories in their own lives.

Lucinda wrote: "Beren and Luthien, Arwen and Aragorn, Tolkien and Edith; they all are connected. I love how Tolkien put himself into his work (adding to the realism of it), making it not only so personal to himsel..."

^Precisely

Yay!

Ahhhhhh. (That was my deep sigh of contentment at such a wonderful story.)

It is nice to know that the life story of J.R.R Tolkien, a writer of fantasy, shows that true love can be a reality.

Joaquin wrote: "It is nice to know that the life story of J.R.R Tolkien, a writer of fantasy, shows that true love can be a reality."

Acturally for Tolkien, true love WAS a reality. He then just turned it into a fantasy. :)