The Pickwick Club discussion

Dear Pickwickians,

we are approaching the final chapters of the novel, and Dickens is still introducing new characters as well as keeping up suspense by giving no real cues as to how the different lines of action are going to be brought to an end. This week I was absolutely fascinated and riveted when reading Chapter 42 but before we are going to rush into that roller coaster ride let us first have a look at Chapter 41, which is entitled “Dora’s Aunts” – because those two ladies, Miss Lavinia and Miss Clarissa, are making their first appearance in the novel.

David has followed Agnes’s advice and sent a formal letter to Dora’s aunts in which he asked for their permission for him to come and see Dora as her suitor, and he now receives an invitation to present himself with a friend to give him mental support. He chooses Traddles as his companion, and he feels himself in need of a supporter since his former confidante, Miss Mills, has left England (and perhaps the story altogether) when her father decided to go to India. In this context, David once more shows the typical egocentrism of the lover – the naïve lover, I should say – when he complains:

”It was a great augmentation of my uneasiness to be bereaved, at this eventful crisis, of the inestimable services of Miss Mills. But Mr. Mills, who was always doing something or other to annoy me—or I felt as if he were, which was the same thing—had brought his conduct to a climax, by taking it into his head that he would go to India. Why should he go to India, except to harass me? To be sure he had nothing to do with any other part of the world, and had a good deal to do with that part; being entirely in the India trade, whatever that was (I had floating dreams myself concerning golden shawls and elephants' teeth); having been at Calcutta in his youth; and designing now to go out there again, in the capacity of resident partner. But this was nothing to me. However, it was so much to him that for India he was bound, and Julia with him; and Julia went into the country to take leave of her relations; and the house was put into a perfect suit of bills, announcing that it was to be let or sold, and that the furniture (Mangle and all) was to be taken at a valuation. So, here was another earthquake of which I became the sport, before I had recovered from the shock of its predecessor!”

It is supposed to be humorous but nevertheless it comes over as terribly puerile and wimpy to me. In fact there were a lot of things that annoyed me as a reader in that chapter. For instance, just consider the passage in which the narrator describes how his younger self and Traddles travelled to Putney: What do you think of David’s behaviour towards Traddles here?

It is also interesting to see what Traddles says about how his intended, Sophy Crewler, is exploited by the family – to such a degree that they would not even have fancied that Sophy might want to get married and to lead a life of her own:

”’You see, Sophy being of so much use in the family, none of them could endure the thought of her ever being married. Indeed, they had quite settled among themselves that she never was to be married, and they called her the old maid.’”
”’There will be a deplorable scene, whenever we are married. It will be much more like a funeral, than a wedding. And they'll all hate me for taking her away!'”

Seems to me that we can increase our list of dysfunctional families featuring in David Copperfield. Of course, Dickens probably intends us to regard the Crewlers at exploitative but at the same time – does he not, once again, draw the ideal of the self-sacrificing woman here which we can also find in Ruth Pinch and Little Nell?

David’s interview with Miss Clarissa and Miss Lavinia, who are no less eccentric than Aunt Betsey, eventually takes a promising course, not only because the two bird-like ladies have had some disagreement with their late brother – a point that seems to obsess Miss Clarissa – but because Miss Lavinia seems to be an elder version of Miss Mills (there was one mildly melancholy episode about one Mr. Pidger, whom the two sisters always regarded as a putative suitor of Miss Lavinia’s), and the two sisters apparently take some proxy delight in furthering a romance between their niece and a young man who must have made a good impression on them. The two ladies grant David the permission to come and visit them and Dora on a regular basis in order to find out whether his feelings for Dora are able to stand the test of time, and they also show a keen interest in getting to know Aunt Betsey – an idea that fills David with apprehension at first but he soon finds that Aunt Betsey tries to tone down her eccentricities in order not to fall out with the Misses Spenlow.

At the end of his first visit, David is also granted an interview with Dora, whose behaviour – Peter, by the way, you can add a new name for David to your ever-growing list – is just sickening to me. Just think of her rudeness towards Traddles! However, David also seems to have some misgivings as to Dora’s maturity:

”One thing troubled me much, after we had fallen into this quiet train. It was, that Dora seemed by one consent to be regarded like a pretty toy or plaything. My aunt, with whom she gradually became familiar, always called her Little Blossom; and the pleasure of Miss Lavinia's life was to wait upon her, curl her hair, make ornaments for her, and treat her like a pet child. What Miss Lavinia did, her sister did as a matter of course. It was very odd to me; but they all seemed to treat Dora, in her degree, much as Dora treated Jip in his.”

When he mildly points out to her that she is not a child, she reacts in a way that makes it impossible to lead a sensible discussion, and so David, stricken with Dora’s charming outward appearance, gives it up and changes the subject. This does not forebode too well for their married life considering that there is also Agnes, with whom David can talk about almost everything. All the while, his endeavours to prepare her for her role as his wife – by Victorian standards – avail to nothing:

”But the cookery-book made Dora’s head ache, and the figures made her cry.”

… and David comes to this unpromising conclusion:

”Consequently, the principal use to which the cookery-book was devoted, was being put down in the corner for Jip to stand upon. But Dora was so pleased, when she had trained him to stand upon it without offering to come off, and at the same time to hold the pencil-case in his mouth, that I was very glad I had bought it.
And we fell back on the guitar-case, and the flower-painting, and the songs about never leaving off dancing, Ta ra la! and were as happy as the week was long. I occasionally wished I could venture to hint to Miss Lavinia, that she treated the darling of my heart a little too much like a plaything; and I sometimes awoke, as it were, wondering to find that I had fallen into the general fault, and treated her like a plaything too—but not often.”

Dear me!

And now for Chapter 42, the promised roller coaster ride! The title already looks very promising: “Mischief”!

The narrator starts this chapter by giving some details about the key to his success in life, and here I think it is easy to see the narrator and the author blend into one:

”I feel as if it were not for me to record, even though this manuscript is intended for no eyes but mine, how hard I worked at that tremendous short-hand, and all improvement appertaining to it, in my sense of responsibility to Dora and her aunts. I will only add, to what I have already written of my perseverance at this time of my life, and of a patient and continuous energy which then began to be matured within me, and which I know to be the strong part of my character, if it have any strength at all, that there, on looking back, I find the source of my success. I have been very fortunate in worldly matters; many men have worked much harder, and not succeeded half so well; but I never could have done what I have done, without the habits of punctuality, order, and diligence, without the determination to concentrate myself on one object at a time, no matter how quickly its successor should come upon its heels, which I then formed. Heaven knows I write this, in no spirit of self-laudation. The man who reviews his own life, as I do mine, in going on here, from page to page, had need to have been a good man indeed, if he would be spared the sharp consciousness of many talents neglected, many opportunities wasted, many erratic and perverted feelings constantly at war within his breast, and defeating him. I do not hold one natural gift, I dare say, that I have not abused. My meaning simply is, that whatever I have tried to do in life, I have tried with all my heart to do well; that whatever I have devoted myself to, I have devoted myself to completely; that in great aims and in small, I have always been thoroughly in earnest. I have never believed it possible that any natural or improved ability can claim immunity from the companionship of the steady, plain, hard-working qualities, and hope to gain its end. There is no such thing as such fulfilment on this earth. Some happy talent, and some fortunate opportunity, may form the two sides of the ladder on which some men mount, but the rounds of that ladder must be made of stuff to stand wear and tear; and there is no substitute for thorough-going, ardent, and sincere earnestness. Never to put one hand to anything, on which I could throw my whole self; and never to affect depreciation of my work, whatever it was; I find, now, to have been my golden rules.”

As the title “Mischief” seems to imply, we are again given the pleasure of seeing Uriah Heep writhe and undulate his lank body: This time he accompanies Agnes and Mr. Wickfield on their visit to the Strongs, and David soon realizes that Uriah’s sharp eyes have also noticed that the relationship between Annie Strong and her cousin is fishy. What is more, Uriah does not hide before David his hard feelings towards Annie and Maldon nor his awareness of his newly-gained position of power:

”'He never could come into the office, without ordering and shoving me about,' said Uriah. 'One of your fine gentlemen he was! I was very meek and umble—and I am. But I didn't like that sort of thing—and I don't!'”
”'She is one of your lovely women, she is,' he pursued, when he had slowly restored his face to its natural form; 'and ready to be no friend to such as me, I know. She's just the person as would put my Agnes up to higher sort of game. Now, I ain't one of your lady's men, Master Copperfield; but I've had eyes in my ed, a pretty long time back. We umble ones have got eyes, mostly speaking—and we look out of 'em.'”
”'Now, I'm not a-going to let myself be run down, Copperfield,' he continued, raising that part of his countenance, where his red eyebrows would have been if he had had any, with malignant triumph, 'and I shall do what I can to put a stop to this friendship. I don't approve of it. I don't mind acknowledging to you that I've got rather a grudging disposition, and want to keep off all intruders. I ain't a-going, if I know it, to run the risk of being plotted against.'”

By the way, he also displays a grim sense of humour:

”'Why, though I am a lawyer, Master Copperfield,' he replied, with a dry grin, 'I mean, just at present, what I say.'”

David realizes that Uriah, both for the sake of revenge but also in order to destroy the friendship between Agnes and Annie, is going to inform the Doctor about his suspicions as to Maldon and Annie – and there is nothing David can do about it.

However, David is not particularly active on that score, either, and instead he introduces Agnes to Dora, who soon become the best of friends. Later that night, David not only witnesses Uriah telling Dr. Strong what is going on behind his back but he also forces Mr. Wickfield and David himself to corroborate his insinuations. Dr. Strong’s reaction, however, does not completely meet Uriah’s expectations in that the old man does not even think of casting his wife out but instead he shows understanding for her affections – with a view to the great difference in age between himself and her – and asserts his convictions that Annie has never betrayed him in any of her actions. By the way, what do you think of the motives Dr. Strong mentions for having married Annie? Apparently Dr. Strong regards himself more as her protector than as her husband. Can this tell us anything about Dickens’s own penchant for younger women?

At the end of the interview, David openly falls out with Uriah since he understands that his enemy has repeatedly let him in on his plans in order to torment him, and he even forgets himself so much as to smack Uriah’s gob. Uriah apparently has no ill-will against David but professes his readiness to forgive him, although his words, “So you know what you’ve got to expect” seem like a threat. At least, David has hit him so hard that on the next day Uriah has to go to see a dentist and have a tooth pulled out.

There is some more mischief in this chapter: In one of her rare serious moments, Dora seems to have misgivings as to David’s love because she seems to consider herself inferior to Agnes.

Last not least David receives a letter from Mrs. Micawber in which she complains that her husband, who is still working for Uriah and who, finally, has been inspired with a zeal for his new profession, is becoming more and more secretive, distrustful and mean. What might that be supposed to forebode?

Let us finally briefly have a look at Chapter 43, „Another Retrospect“, which is yet another example of Dickens’s masterful way of telling a story. There is hardly anything else than the wedding ceremony of David and Dora described here, but how delightfully Dickens does this. He manages to mention most of the people with whom David has struck up a friendship, and the result is that the readers can nearly feel as if they were themselves present at their wedding. I enjoyed reading this chapter a lot!

The narrator also gives information on a change in his personal circumstances when he says that he not only has mastered shorthand and started reporting on parliamentary debates – just look at the tongue-in-cheek criticism of politicians here:

”I have tamed that savage stenographic mystery. I make a respectable income by it. I am in high repute for my accomplishment in all pertaining to the art, and am joined with eleven others in reporting the debates in Parliament for a Morning Newspaper. Night after night, I record predictions that never come to pass, professions that are never fulfilled, explanations that are only meant to mystify. I wallow in words. Britannia, that unfortunate female, is always before me, like a trussed fowl: skewered through and through with office-pens, and bound hand and foot with red tape. I am sufficiently behind the scenes to know the worth of political life. I am quite an Infidel about it, and shall never be converted.”

but he has also started writing fiction and begun to make his mark in that profession. This comes as a surprise, I think, because David’s starting to write stories appears rather unmotivated by anything that has gone on before – except maybe his role as a storyteller in Creakle’s school.

I also came across this little passage, which reminded me of the story that Dickens – when he was a child – used to walk past his later home Gad’s Hill with his father, who used to say that one day maybe Dickens would own that place if he worked hard:

”We have removed, from Buckingham Street, to a pleasant little cottage very near the one I looked at, when my enthusiasm first came on.”

Maybe Dickens was thinking of this episode in his own life?

What I did not like so much was David’s rather condescending attitude towards his good friend Traddles and Sophy, when he says:

”Sophy arrives at the house of Dora's aunts, in due course. She has the most agreeable of faces,—not absolutely beautiful, but extraordinarily pleasant,—and is one of the most genial, unaffected, frank, engaging creatures I have ever seen. Traddles presents her to us with great pride; and rubs his hands for ten minutes by the clock, with every individual hair upon his head standing on tiptoe, when I congratulate him in a corner on his choice.”

Tristram wrote: "Dear Pickwickians,

we are approaching the final chapters of the novel, and Dickens is still introducing new characters as well as keeping up suspense by giving no real cues as to how the different..."

Dickens seems to be dawdling about in this chapter and the next two as well. While Dora continues her childish attitudes and behaviour David does not come off as very likeable either. You are right Tristram. Since David is writing this account of his life in retrospect it is perhaps gratifying to know that he does not make himself too much the hero. David is not a very likeable person in parts of the novel.

The name game continues. Little did I know how many names David has worn or been anointed with and we still have many chapters to go. I'll issue a final list after the novel's conclusion and see what we can make of them.


On the topic of names I noticed that Dora seems to be joining the name game too. Aunt Betsey calls her "Little Blossom" and later on Dora makes "a rosebud of her mouth" during one of her many pouts. Dora also does drawings of "little nosegays" and likenesses of David and Jip in her account books rather than the figures and sums that David had hoped for with her housekeeping.

Dickens suggests through the use of flower references the childish, unformed nature of Dora. The references to "Little Blossom" and rosebud suggest innocent potential. The cookery-book that David hoped would assist Nora's maturation becomes one of nosegays, not recipes and a stool upon which Dora's dog can perform tricks.

Tristram wrote: "And now for Chapter 42, the promised roller coaster ride! The title already looks very promising: “Mischief”!

The narrator starts this chapter by giving some details about the key to his success i..."

There certainly is much mischief in this chapter. While we must still speculate on what is happening with Steerforth and Em'ly we are told quite boldly about the slithering of Uriah Heep. He seems to take great joy in using his "umbleness" to meddle in, manoeuvre and misrepresent as much as possible.

The relationship of Annie And Dr. Strong is a very interesting one, and I agree with you Tristram that there are certainly distinct echoes of Dickens's own life that run through this novel from David's occupations, his desire for a specific house to his curious and somewhat mysterious relationships with younger women. I try not to read too much biography into this novel but confess to being incessantly drawn towards parallels between Dickens and David. It has been often pointed out that even the initials of the fictional character and the author show a distinct commonality. DC for David Copperfield and CD for Charles Dickens.

Kim wrote: "Traddles and I in conference with the Misses Spenlow

Chapter 41

"My sister Lavinia," said she, "being conversant with matters of this nature, will state what we consider most calculated to promot..."

Kim

I feel like I'm falling into a rabbit hole with all these delightful illustrations you are providing. New world of thoughts, interpretations and insights are being revealed each week. Like you, I do wonder if Steig has gone a bit too far, but rather go too far than take no liberties at all.

The mention of the birds in the cage continues to trip my mind. Dickens's own written comments about the sisters being like birds has got me going back in time to previous novels where he distinctly mentions birds, birds in cages and the like. We have, of course, Grip in BR, but I distinctly recall your postings on the caged birds and their tricks that were sold in markets. This novel, too, has given us many references to birds, be they Rooks seeking a home as in the earlier chapters, or the present caged love birds.

There is so much to think about and back check.

Thanks Tristram again for your excellent summing up and Kim for your illustrations and, of course, Peter for your usual insightful comments.

I find myself so absorbed, upset and distraught by the section where Doctor Strong is verbally attacked by the snake that is Heep. His drawing in of others witnesses who do not want to bear witness, their love of the Doctor is too deep, is beyond despicable.

Such genuine humility and self-questioning on the Doctor's part show how he is not prepared to rebuke Annie. He takes all the burden on himself. He reminds me of Christ standing in the gap for us. This section has affected me more deeply than almost any of Dickens's writing. In regard to the question: ought he to have married the much younger woman etc.? Quite honestly I couldn't give a monkey's. The Doctor is a man of integrity, a man who deserved unconditional love ...

I couldn't wait for Theee wedding section to be over ... Toe-curling, cringeable, enough already!

Kim wrote: "If you can see and understand all that, you should get a prize."

You should be the one to get a prize, Kim, for providing all this background information. I cannot spot all the details but I really enjoy reading those interpretations, especially the ideas about the caged birds and the fish in the bowl, which seem to forebode ill for the young couple. Those illustrations give another dimension to the already multidimensional fictitious worlds created by Dickens.

Hilary,

Doctor Strong's behaviour in that situation is indeed very noble and proves him to be a man of ample understanding, of gentleness and high ideals - I remember that David said it was exactly that kind of nobleness of spirit he wanted to awaken in his pupils - and so Strong is a very brilliant teacher in that he lives what he preaches.

I was just asking myself why the Doctor got married to Annie in the first place. Did he feel an obligation towards her father to protect her? Naive and good-natured as he is, he could hardly have noticed the materialism and shamelessness of The Old Soldier, who would probably have been a second Mrs. Skewton if it had not been for the Doctor's stepping in. It's easy to see that Mrs. Markleham would have used her daughter as a pawn and married her off to a rich man if possible.

I cannot yet see Annie loving her husband as a wife normally loves her husband. At the same time, as Peter said, there seems to be some autobiographic writing in that relationship - as in the childishness of Dora, who has simply not grown up in spirit, and seems very attractive to David because of that! Apparently a Victorian beauty ideal consisted in a woman being silly and insipid (Dora) or self-forebearing and reliable (Agnes, Florence, Ruth).

I can't help it, but I prefer Edith ;-)

Tristram wrote: "Hilary,

Doctor Strong's behaviour in that situation is indeed very noble and proves him to be a man of ample understanding, of gentleness and high ideals - I remember that David said it was exactl..."

Dickens method of portraying women is certainly perplexing, if not downright annoying to readers in the 21C. While it may be difficult to accept or agree with his portrayal of women, we need to be aware of his time, his focus, and the fact that he was writing in a world that could not conceive what the 21C would be like, would think, or would expect of its citizens. Indeed, our present world is still not on the same page in terms of how we should perceive and interact with one another.

In our upcoming chapters we will see more of Annie and Dr. Strong. There is still much to come and be revealed. I can't wait ...

Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "If you can see and understand all that, you should get a prize."

You should be the one to get a prize, Kim, for providing all this background information. I cannot spot all the details..."

Perhaps, but what I can't figure out is - does the person writing the commentary really see all those things or did Dickens and Phiz leave detailed notes behind on what is in the illustrations. Perhaps the illustrations were just clearer in magazine form than they are in book form and especially in online form. He can see the names of books and paintings, one fish chasing the other, etc. - really?

Tristram, when I said I couldn't give a monkey's, I was not referring to your question which is completely valid. I was merely having one of my hissy fits where injustice appeared to be in the ascendancy. I think that Dr Strong and Annie's reasons for marriage could be a combination of all of your suggestions. I don't believe that Dr Strong was capable of a dishonourable motive. I love the bones of him. (A North of England expression).

Hilary wrote: "I think that Dr Strong and Annie's reasons for marriage could be a combination of all of your suggestions."

Do you know what Dr. Strong and Annie's marriage brought to my mind? My father was sixteen years older than my mother, then I went and married a man who is eighteen years older than I am, and some years after that our daughter went and married a man twenty years older than her. If I'm doing the math correctly, which isn't guaranteed, my granddaughter should marry a man twenty-two years older than her. I wonder how long until we have a fifty or so year gap. :-)

Kim wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Kim wrote: "If you can see and understand all that, you should get a prize."

You should be the one to get a prize, Kim, for providing all this background information. I cannot spo..."

Maybe somebody who writes a book on the illustrations has the opportunity to take a look at original illustrations or larger replicas. Otherwise, they would probably not be able to see all those details.

Peter wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Hilary,

Doctor Strong's behaviour in that situation is indeed very noble and proves him to be a man of ample understanding, of gentleness and high ideals - I remember that David s..."

I fully agree with you, Peter. I usually get very tired of that smart ass attitude of modern people turning up their noses at older writers who do not share our notions of how the world should be run. I feel especially annoyed with people brandishing the "white male gaze" cudgel in connection with masterpieces like Heart of Darkness.

Hilary wrote: "Tristram, when I said I couldn't give a monkey's, I was not referring to your question which is completely valid. I was merely having one of my hissy fits where injustice appeared to be in the asc..."

Don't worry, Hilary - I did not get hold of the wrong end of the stick ;-) And I love the bones of that "love the bones" expression!

Haha excellent, Kim. I have an uncle who
married my aunt when she was eighteen and he was twenty + years older = happiest marriage ever. My brother's second wife is twenty years younger than he = 19 years married and wonderfully happy. Maybe we have hit on the key to a happy marriage. ;-)

I think that you're definitely getting close to achieving that 50 year gap! :p

Oh and Tristram, I believe there's medication you can take for that Edith fixation of yours. Either that or 30 years of counselling...

I had a difficult time believing in Dr. Strong, similar to Agnes, in the too-good-to-be-true way. He reminds me somewhat of Jarndyce in Bleak House. Very benevolent, but with a gullible or naive streak, despite his wisdom in other respects. I'm not sure Strong has protected his wife from the person she most, sadly, needs protecting from -- her mercenary mother. Since he's been a loving and compassionate teacher and father-figure to Annie, their marriage also feels a bit incestuous to me.

I'm curious if they would have discussed children -- did Annie want any? Dr. Strong expects he will die while Annie is still young, so she will have a second chance, but it's also possible she would be left a widow with young children. Or that he will have a lingering illness. Perhaps they would simply leave this to Providence, but when he says that he considered her future, he considered an optimistic one.

As a modern reader, I also stumble on David's view of the Doctor as 'exalted' for his 'reverence' of his wife. This feels similar to David putting Agnes on a pedestal, which seems particularly unfair considering the horrors she's living through at home. When she says she is 'light-hearted', I can't believe her. She loses something in the ideals of Dickens and/or his era.

Tristram wrote: "Peter wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Hilary,

Doctor Strong's behaviour in that situation is indeed very noble and proves him to be a man of ample understanding, of gentleness and high ideals - I remembe..."


Conrad's Heart of Darkness. What a powerful novel.

Hilary wrote: "Oh and Tristram, I believe there's medication you can take for that Edith fixation of yours. Either that or 30 years of counselling..."

Even thirty years of counselling cannot wean me from a high-spirited woman like Edith! :-)

Kim wrote: "This one also is by Fred Barnard:



Chapter 42

"He caught the hand in his, and we stood in that connection, looking at each other.""

This illustration leaves no doubt that there is trouble ahead and that especially because of Uriah's protestations of forgivenness David had better watch out.

Kim wrote: "And here is the illustration Fred Barnard did for Chapter 42 "Mischief".



"I wonder why you ever fell in love with me?" said Dora, beginning on another button of my coat.""

I was really astonished at Dora's moment of seriousness and the question why David fell in love with her. To me it seems to foreshadow that their marriage will probably not be a very happy one. At the same time, one might argue - Everyman already raised the question of David's reliability as a narrator several times - that maybe this question mirrors David's misgivings about the wiseness of his decision, and that he as a narrator simply put into Dora's mouth what might in truth have been the voice of his subconscious.

Kim wrote: "An illustration by Sol Eytinge, Jr.



The commentary says:

"The illustration "Dora and Miss Mills" — describes the relationship between the spoiled child of a socially prominent "proctor" in Doct..."

Thanks for that picture, Kim - although I don't find it a beautiful one, with the two women looking rather like partridges who had too much to eat :-)

However, I like the author's idea of not bothering over-much about chronology and just putting all the items into one room that help characterize Dora as the rather mindless and spoilt person she is.

Peter wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Peter wrote: "Tristram wrote: "Hilary,

Doctor Strong's behaviour in that situation is indeed very noble and proves him to be a man of ample understanding, of gentleness and high i..."

While I was in hospital, I started reading Conrad again, it was Almayer's Folly, and whenever we are going to do this thing on choosing books by another favourite author and having a poll on them and reading the one with the most votes, I will probably suggest Conrad when it's my turn :-)

Vanessa wrote: "I'm curious if they would have discussed children -- did Annie want any? Dr. Strong expects he will die while Annie is still young, so she will have a second chance, but it's also possible she would be left a widow with young children. Or that he will have a lingering illness. Perhaps they would simply leave this to Providence, but when he says that he considered her future, he considered an optimistic one.

As a modern reader, I also stumble on David's view of the Doctor as 'exalted' for his 'reverence' of his wife. This feels similar to David putting Agnes on a pedestal, which seems particularly unfair considering the horrors she's living through at home. When she says she is 'light-hearted', I can't believe her. She loses something in the ideals of Dickens and/or his era. "

I am completely with you here, Vanessa. It's not really the age difference - my grandfather was ten years my grandmother's senior - but the strange behaviour of Dr. Strong towards Annie. He seems to have married her to protect her when her father died, so in a way he became like a father to her. But why did he marry her then? He could have become her guardian, thus not imposing the "duties" (as to Victorian standards) of a wife on her. As matters stand, he has put her into an awkward position, seeing that she obviously has or had feelings for her cousin. And yes, there is that other case of Jarndyce, whom we will be dealing with in our next group read - there are some parallels, but I don't want to spoil right now.

I had thought of the guardian option as well, Tristram. It's almost as if Dr. Strong is as unaware of his (possibly) self-interested motives, as he is of the motives of others (the Old Soldier, etc). Perhaps he and Annie were well-matched in naivety at their marriage, although she appears to be the one more observant and understanding of others.

Kim wrote: "I am Married

Chapter 43

"The commentary says:

"From the gallery above, Peggotty, in widow's weeds, looks down, and beneath the gallery, directly behind the font and the waiting mothers, is a casket covered with a sheet, implying a recent death. The panorama of the stages of man's life echoing the cover — is thus expressed, from birth through childhood, love and marriage, to death." "

I also would never have seen all this detail, Kim; thank you for adding it and the commentary. This sense of coming full circle, is what the rhythm of Dickens' words in describing the wedding scene brought to mind, for me. His wonderful use of repetition took me back to chapter 2, where he described his home and church. It also reminded me of the chapter describing his night of 'dissipation' in his youth.

The only drawback (aside from the bride!) was Peggotty choosing to view the wedding in the gallery, so far from her place by his side in the earliest church scene. Maybe this also indicates an ending relationship within a new beginning. Betsey too, seems to have let go of the idea of David's sister: "my own boy never could be dearer." I appreciated how both these maternal figures acknowledged David's mother, bringing her into the wedding as well.

Vanessa wrote: "The only drawback (aside from the bride!) was Peggotty choosing to view the wedding in the gallery, so far from her place by his side in the earliest church scene. Maybe this also indicates an ending relationship within a new beginning. Betsey too, seems to have let go of the idea of David's sister: "my own boy never could be dearer." I appreciated how both these maternal figures acknowledged David's mother, bringing her into the wedding as well. "

That's an interesting thought, Peggotty as a surrogate mother slowly fading out of the picture and Aunt Betsey ceasing her references to the sister that never was.

And we should not forget that another caring mother figure also seems to be fading out of the picture: Mrs. Crupp ;-)

More and more we are discovering the value and impact the illustrations have on the narrative. The illustrations seem to have a life of their own. I, too, think the observations and placement of Peggotty at David's wedding offers a world of possibilities and insights.

Thanks Kim. It is as if we are reading two stories, one told in words, the other in illustrations.

Ah Tristram, I'm sure we could think up some fearful aversion therapy to cure you of your Edith attachment once and for all. :D. Now that you mention her, perhaps the now redundant Mrs Crupp would serve as a replacement for Edith.

Yet again, Kim, I must prise my laptop from my son's vicelike grip as I am missing way too much!

You're so right, Vanessa. The seating arrangements in the church appear to be loaded with meaning. Great observation. :-)

Tristram, I have never read Conrad. Thanks for your passionate, enticing description. He will have to join my already heaving TBR list.

He won't be long on that list, Hilary, after you have read your first Conrad novel: It's a matter of either love or hate with Conrad :-)

Tristram wrote: "He won't be long on that list, Hilary, after you have read your first Conrad novel: It's a matter of either love or hate with Conrad :-)"

I thought of you over the weekend when I bought "Under Western Eyes."

When will you have got round to the letter "C", Kim? If I remember correctly, you go by the alphabet, don't you?

Tristram wrote: "When will you have got round to the letter "C", Kim? If I remember correctly, you go by the alphabet, don't you?"

Mostly, but I haven't gotten around to adding the new books to the alphabetical shelf yet, so I've just been grabbing them from the top of the pile lately. I should go arrange them today. Oh, I also thought of you because I bought an Ambrose Bierce book at the same time and I know you like him, and now after reading the little biography in the front about him I really, really want to know what happened to him.

Aha Tristram, that makes for decided discoveries still ahead with Conrad ...

Peter wrote: "David does not come off as very likeable either. You are right Tristram. Since David is writing this account of his life in retrospect it is perhaps gratifying to know that he does not make himself too much the hero. "

I suspect that he is even worse than he suggests he is.

Everyman wrote: "Peter wrote: "David does not come off as very likeable either. You are right Tristram. Since David is writing this account of his life in retrospect it is perhaps gratifying to know that he does no..."

Good to see you are posting again Everyman.

Everyman wrote: "I suspect that he is even worse than he suggests he is."

Somehow I have always had this kind of suspicion in connection with Esther from Bleak House. David's way of praising himself at times is so awkward that I can hardly think of him being a very calculating person.

Tristram wrote: "Everyman wrote: "I suspect that he is even worse than he suggests he is."

Somehow I have always had this kind of suspicion in connection with Esther from Bleak House. David's way of praising himse..."

I agree. David does seem to downplay his own successes at times. He also invites us to determine whether he is the hero of the story. I think the key word you use is "awkward." It is difficult to get an accurate reading from his words. The first person narration does cause problems in assessing the objectivity of every scene.

Yes, Peter, I think so too. Not only does the first person narration cause problems with regard to objectivity but also with regard to credibility. Why else should David repeatedly justify his vivid power of memory? I am looking forward to that discussion!