Robert E. Howard Readers discussion

Do you read any REH pastiches, if you do, do you enjoy them, or should they all be burned?

I don't like it when making fun of REH's works generally, but to finish his work or expand on it, I often do. For instance, King Kull when finished by Carter & DeCamp was a better book for me than another copy I have that stuck with just what Howard actually wrote. The latter left stories unfinished & wasn't nearly as entertaining.

I also think some writers have done a good job expanding on the Conan universe. Karl Edward Wagner was one.

Jim wrote: "I don't like it when making fun of REH's works generally, but to finish his work or expand on it, I often do. For instance, [b:King Kull|4413448|King Kull|Robert E Howard|/images/nocover-60x80.jpg..."

Jim,

Interesting points!
I agree that KEW did a good job, but some of the later Tor books were awful and Conan of Venarium
by Harry Turtledove, I could certainly have done without!

I am certainly not averse to some editing of Howard, and when I can't get any Howard I have not read before I am happy to read some of the pastiches, but there is certainly a lot that should be avoided!

I just mentioned this in a previous post, but Legion from the Shadows," the Bran Mak Morn pastiche from Karl Wagner is my favorite of the pastiches. I also liked Smith and Tierney's collaboration, and "For The Witch of the Indies." Didn't care much for any of the Conan pastiches and stopped reading them long ago. I didn't even like Wagner's "The Road of Kings" about Conan.

I'll have to give Karl Edward Wagner's Conan stuff a look. I really liked his Kane stories.

The only pastiche I've read that actually uses a Howard character is Conan at the Demon's Gate by Roland Green (which was a present from my wife). At the time I read it, I thought it was pretty good, though the details of the plot aren't especially memorable. (I do remember thinking that the portrayal of the Picts had a lot in common with the picture of American Indians in much of the 30s-40s fiction about the Eastern frontier in the 1700s --an impression that was strengthened when I read "Beyond the Black River" later. :-) I'd say that tradition probably influenced Howard.) But not having read much of the original Conan material at that time, I didn't make a comparison for style or quality.

I'm slowly working my way through Wagner's Road of Kings. Taking it slow because there's so few of Wagner's works that I have not read, and want to let it sink in, but also from lack of reading time.

It's good. Different from Howard -- maybe a bit less raw power -- but good.

I haven't read them since I was a teenager, but I remember really liking Andrew Offut's Cormac Mac Art series of books. They were definitely different style than REH, and I'd have to re-read them again to see whether they hold up to me as an adult reader...

I have not and will not read pastiches. I feel like a grumpy old man, saying this, but I read Howard to read Howard. I appreciate all the different characters that he has produced, and I love the stories and settings he created for them. And when all is said and done, I accept that there are no more of each. Hoiwever much I wanted to read the rest of Solomon Kane's adventures through Africa, I'd rather never read them, than read them written by someone else.

I don't generally like any of the pastiches of Howard's characters. I did enjoy KEW's "Road of Kings" and I don't have an issue with many authors trying their hand at it. I hope that it entices the readers to want to read the real stuff.

I finished Road of Kings a few days ago, after taking a slow tour though it. Good, not as good as one of KEW's own creations but certainly better than most other pastiches. I wrote in a yahoo group for KEW that I thought KEW wrote more precisely than REH, but not with same raw power, in this instance anyway. Perhaps in general. He did create a fine plot in Road of Kings, however.

So far, the only Howard pastiche I've read is Roland Green's Conan at the Demon's Gate (which I added to our group's read shelf recently, so you can read my full review there, if you want to). I thought it was quite faithful to the spirit of the original stories.

Green's pastiche is set at the time of Conan's career where he's mourning his dead lover, the pirate queen Belit, who's mentioned in passing in The Essential Conan as well. His references piqued my curiosity about the lady! Can anyone tell me which Conan stories are set during his time with her crew, and what collections they're found in? :-)

To the best of my knowledge, Conan was only with Belit briefly. In "Conan of Cimmeria", which was the 2d book of the Lancer editions, he meets Belit in "Queen of the Black Coast". He's about 24 & running from something. He hops on a merchant ship that she & her pirates capture. After he kills half her crew, it's love/lust & they go adventuring. I don't remember the story clearly enough to say for sure, but I thought they spent a few months & then went after a treasure up a jungle river where Belit is killed.

Thanks, Jim. I'll have to remember that title for future reference!

One of my problems with so many of the new Conan stories is they split up the old stories & often poorly add to his life. His motives & methods as outlined by Howard in a story will get goofed up. I can't think of any examples I can defend off-hand, but I think "Conan & the Flame Knife" was one that ticked me off due to that.

I've read the Lancer 12 and some of the later Conan books. I generally found the De Camp/Carter additions average at best. Conan the Liberator is awful to put it bluntly.
I actually enjoyed Conan the Avenger, even though the story is a bit choppy. Also liked Conan and the Sorcerer by Offutt, seemed close to REH's Conan in parts, but was then let down by the other two boring Offutt offerings. Karl Edward Wagner's Road of Kings was good, but seemed overhyped as being the best pastiche to me.
I also read the pastiche Cormac Mac Art story by David Drake in the Baen book of the same name. It wasn't good at all.

The only pastiches I've read are the ones from the original 12 lancers. Even as a kid I could tell the difference between the REH stories and the de Camp, Carter, Nyberg ones. Today I have zero interest in reading any pastiches.

Dave wrote: "I've read the Lancer 12 and some of the later Conan books. I generally found the De Camp/Carter additions average at best. Conan the Liberator is awful to put it bluntly.
I actually enjoyed Conan t..."

I only read the SSOC adaptation of Liberator, but I have to say, nothing proves that LSdC just didn't understand REH, more than the fact that he thought it would be OK to including friggin' satyrs in a Conan story. Crom doom him!

I have not read a pastiche and dont plan to ever read one.

Only one i kind of want to read Bran Mak Morn novel by Karl Edward Wagner.

I strongly disagree that an unfinished Howard story can be improved upon by pastiche writers like De Camp and co.

Im a 2000s Howard fan and think as a purist only the original at his worst is better than the best pastiche always.

I can't really judge the pastiches that well, at least not the De Camp/Carter/Nyberg ones, because they were how I was introduced to Conan in book form (Marvel Comics before that). So, I have a nostalgic affection for them that transcends their worth when compared with REH. Now, Robert E. Howard is better without a doubt, but I still enjoy reading the De Camp/Carter/Nyberg stories.

I agree with Michael on the De Camp & Carter ones - or whoever did most of the Lancer editions. I actually prefer some of those because the story wasn't just a fragment. I had that issue with Kull. I favored the Lancer edition over the 'real' thing.

I don't think I was as fond of Offut (?), Nyberg or some of the others. I think Wagner got the voice right.

Im the opposite of you guys i have been born as REH in 2007 and i know all the hate,dislike for De Camp and co. I cant be anything but purist who has no nostalgic feelngs for pastiches.


Jim have you read more than one Kull story ? Are you saying you prefer the Kull pastiches over Howard whole series of his early S&S hero ?

If you dont like fragments you will hate REH historical series of Cormac,Dark Agnes for example. I have read their last stories that are fragments.

I have tons of fragments but i dont read them until i must.

Mohammed, no, Kull the book. There were only a few of the Lancer books I got from my father. One was King Kull. My cousin borrowed & never returned it, so I bought another edition, one that was 'true' to Howard & had just fragments of some stories. I only read it once. I preferred the stories & such finished as they were in the Lancer edition, so I spent a lot of time locating one & was happy again.

I don't like reading story fragments. As I said in another topic, I read Howard for entertainment. I'm not studying his writing style or trying to learn anything, just looking for a good tale. Fragments don't make the grade. Of course, neither do some imitations.

Howard is adventure writer of course we most read him for entertainment unless you want to write about his mythlogoy,historical view,characters.

Nothing wrong fragments for me if they are long enough like 10-20 pages. Depends on how you like the character and want a fragment over nothing.

Mohammed wrote: "...Nothing wrong fragments for me if they are long enough like 10-20 pages. Depends on how you like the character and want a fragment over nothing."

That's the cool part when someone decent finishes his fragments - I get the full story. I think DeCamp & Carter did a good job. Whether it was strictly accurate doesn't bother me. As Michael said, when it is one of my first reads, that gives it an extra edge.

I own most of the pastiches, I've only read some of them. They're okay to pass the time. Some are good, some are awful - but none are Robert E. Howard.

I firmly follow KEW's edict that any pastiches should not be mixed with original REH works and REH works should always be presented as they were originally printed.

That said, I think Conan has run his course. Realistically, how many more adventures could squeeze into his lifetime, if you take everything together at this point?

I'd rather see 'Age of Conan' resurrected properly and let the Hyborian world be explored. (and treated as Hyboria, not Greyhawk, not Forgotten Realms, not another other world - they are not interchangeable.)

The first Conan I bought was a de Camp...I read...maybe a third...and didn't read another Conan for YEARS. The only other writer I've ever read who could handle him besides Howard is John Maddox Roberts.

Shadows Bend: A Novel of the Fantastic and Unspeakable (2000), by David Barbour and Richard Raleigh, isn't exactly a Howard pastiche; but it's a novel that features REH as a main character, along with his fellow Weird Tales authors H. P. Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith, in a plot that revolves around Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos (which REH also borrowed at times for his tales, such as "The Black Stone"). I think some members of this group would probably like it. (My five-star review is here: www.goodreads.com/review/show/33319389 .)

I heard about this book years ago but haven't ever read it. I've seen excerpts.

I thought Karl Edward Wagner did very well with his Legion from the Shadows, a Bran Mak Morn pastiche.

Ron wrote: "The first Conan I bought was a de Camp...I read...maybe a third...and didn't read another Conan for YEARS. The only other writer I've ever read who could handle him besides Howard is John Maddox Ro..."

Thanks Werner, I just ordered it. It sounds interesting.

I just posted a review of Conan: Cult of the Obsidian Moon.

https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...