Young Adult Book Reading Challenges discussion

What do you think of Linden? Is he a villain? A victim of his father's treacherous deeds? A simple-minded, naive man?

I really, really liked Linden. He was a tender-hearted man, a bit naive, and sentimental.

(view spoiler)[I hated Rhine for leaving him in the end. (hide spoiler)]

Tatiana wrote: "What do you think of Linden? Is he a villain? A victim of his father's treacherous deeds? A simple-minded, naive man?"

He's simple-minded and naive - dominated by is father and unable to stand on his own two feet. I really didn't like him.

I have to say, I had a hard time caring for Linden, even with all his gentleness, he slept with a 13-year old girl. No amount of naivete can erase this fact, in my eyes.

Tatiana wrote: "I have to say, I had a hard time caring for Linden, even with all his gentleness, he slept with a 13-year old girl. No amount of naivete can erase this fact, in my eyes."

Well...I would agree with you if the book were set in our world, in our society. In Wither's world, civilization can't afford to let children mature at a leisurely pace. If you want children to be able to remember their mothers then, unfortunately, young girls have to have children at a young age. As it is, Cecily's baby won't reach the age of 7 before Cecily dies.

In terms of life-span, Linden is like a contemporary man who is 64 years old and Cecily is 40.

I have to say I really liked him. I mean of course at first when I thought he knew where they came from I didn't but when I learned he had no idea I felt kinda bad for him. His father tries to sweeten things up for him so he wont get upset about the little things

1. I agree with Grace; his sexual relationship with Cecily is much less creepy when you remember that, as a 13-year old, she is already more than halfway done with her life. Not really a child anymore.

2. Overall, I had a lot of positive feelings toward Linden. He was so pathetic and hopeful and isolated from real human suffering, it was hard to hold him accountable.

(view spoiler)[But it really ticks me off that he never knew that the girls were forced to marry him. It seemed unlikely and, to me, like a device for the author to not deal with moral ambiguity. As if the only way for Linden to be a likable character would be for him to be completely unaware of everything. (hide spoiler)]

I am surprised Linden didn't know that the girls were forced to marry him. Did none of them tell him that? It's been awhile since I read it, so I don't remember how exactly it unfolded.

Also, on sister wives thread someone mentioned that Rhine tried to keep Linden in her room so that he wouldn't go to have sex with Cecily. That and Rhine's general disapproving attitude towards the sexual relationship between a grown man and a 13-year old girl to me implies that even in this world of shortened lives this practice is not socially and morally acceptable. If it is not socially acceptable, then, logically, what Linden does with Cecily is morally wrong and he knows it as well. It is hard to view him a positive light in such circumstances.

That is, of course, unless Rhine's view is a unique one.

Tatiana wrote: "I have to say, I had a hard time caring for Linden, even with all his gentleness, he slept with a 13-year old girl. No amount of naivete can erase this fact, in my eyes."



I completely agree- what kind of guy sleeps with a 13-year-old girl, gets her pregnant, and lets his father spoil the child. I did like Linden a bit though, he was kind to Rhine and his other wives, and he really did love his first wife. Cecily DID want to have sex with him though. She was excited to be married and she wanted to ake him proud by being the first of his wives to carry his child.

Linden is like a little boy; he doesn't know what hs father does behind his back and what the world really is like outside. I akso think it is sick to have sex with a thirteen year old, eventhough Cecily did want to have sex and get pregnet.

Like him or not, he is purely a creation of his environment. I'm actually surprised he and Rhine didn't get along better due to this fact. I felt that's what they had in common. We're rooting for Rhine as the protagonist of the story, but ultimately she's the same. She wants to continue with her life as she knew it.

Granted, that doesn't condone her circumstances. You don't agree or like how she came to be in this place. I kinda wonder if all girls were treated as brutally as the other girls in the van; we're somewhat led to believe they are, but I'm sure there are several - like Cecily - that are excited, even proud that they are chosen to live their limited life very comfortably.

That being said, I feel Linden was the way he was simply because he didn't know better. I feel that Rhine had the possibility to save him in a sense and I was disappointed that she was so consumed with her escape with her new hot friend that she just let him continue in his deluded life.

I felt it hard to believe that he didn't know that the girls were forced to come and be his wives. I would have thought that someone would have told him, eventually. He seemed so oblivious, and it kind of made me sad. Other than that, I never felt I understood his character all that much.

Nicola wrote: "And to everyone claiming "Oh Cecily wasn't really a child in this situation, she was a woman in this world" - if Rhine was able to see her as a child, then why shouldn't Linden? "

That's one of the problems I had with the book - Rhine's attitude. It's a weakness of the world-building. Her attitudes don't really reflect the reality of the world she lives in. She's too "21st Century" to be a real part of that world.

"Melinda wrote: "I feel that Rhine had the possibility to save him in a sense and I was disappointed that she was so consumed with her escape with her new hot friend that she just let him continue ..."

"Nicola wrote: I find this opinion completely bizarre. Why SHOULDN'T she want to escape? She was kidnapped and forced into marrying him!"


She could have continued planning her escape while informing Linden of how wrong he was. Why did she never tell him that his wives have been brought there against their wills? Why didn't she set him straight on the existence of bride schoold?

Grace wrote: "Tatiana wrote: "I have to say, I had a hard time caring for Linden, even with all his gentleness, he slept with a 13-year old girl. No amount of naivete can erase this fact, in my eyes."

Well...I ..."

I have to agree with Grace. Today's society I would think it's nasty for a man to sleep with a 13 year old. But being that people die so young you probably have to have kids as soon as your period starts!
edit:
I can see what Tatiana is saying though about Rhine not wanting him to sleep with Cicily. I guess that the virus is only about 30 years old given the information we got from the book so yes now that I think about it getting a 13 year old pregnant probably would still be taboo.

Nicola wrote: "Melinda wrote: "I feel that Rhine had the possibility to save him in a sense and I was disappointed that she was so consumed with her escape with her new hot friend that she just let him continue i..."

Personally I don't think Rhine could save Linden. He didn't want to see what was around him. He just didn't care enough. I don't know what in the world he was doing all day. But he was NOT going to leave that place... there was no saving him.

One thing I can say about this book is that the characters were very interesting!!! Memorable.

Linden... I don't know about him.. on the one hand he is such a pansy. He never stands up to his dad, or questions anything. Nor did he really care about where his wives came from. Not really. But then at the same time he seems to feel bad for them.. a little. I can't tell though if he is upset when they are upset because it ruins his flow.

I like the points above about how could Linden not know that these girls were out there being kidnapped. Unless he never never left home. And I never read about any indication that there was TV or newspapers watched in that house. Though we do know there were cameras at the party so there is some kind of media. Linden must've seen something.

And another thing... you're telling me this guy never went in the basement and investigated? NEVER? I don't live in a house that I don't know what is going on in different places. He never once questioned his dad to find out what he was doing?

Also I don't think she told him about the other wives' backgrounds because that was their backgrounds and only they should tell them. I agree with that. And she just didn't feel like her own background was his business because he either wouldn't believe her or wouldn't care to do anything about it.

Anyone else think the pictures he drew from listening to Rhine sleep were creepy??

Angie wrote: "Anyone else think the pictures he drew from listening to Rhine sleep were creepy??"

They were certainly disturbing. Maybe they were meant to convey Linden's hidden depths - there's more to him than we, or Rhine, can see.

Yea I thought maybe it was showing us that he is like his father deep inside.

Landon is naiive but really tender hearted. His views were confused becuase of his father's ways.... overall, he didn't know what happened in the slums, he only knew his reality.

I actually liked Linden. I feel like he is just sheltered and in a world that so much goes wrong in he thinks he has this brilliant father who would do anything for him (which may be true) and he just can't or won't see any other side of him. I feel like he is kind to his wives, which still seems wrong but within this world is less wrong, and just seems like an overall good natured person. Rhine realizes this and that is why she has trouble sometimes separating the lies she is telling from the way she actually feels and has to keep convincing and reminding herself that it is wrong.